Page 1 of 12

European refugee crisis [split]

Posted: 2015-09-10, 13:28
by Levike
admin

Split from Random complaints and advice thread 4.


--------------------

My city has been called "barbaric, xenofobic and chovinistic" by the prime-minister.

Well, I know who I'm definitely not going to vote for. :nope:

Re: Random complaints and advice thread 4

Posted: 2015-09-10, 13:34
by Osias
but but ... why? :hmm:

Re: Random complaints and advice thread 4

Posted: 2015-09-10, 14:00
by Levike
osias wrote:but but ... why? :hmm:

Immigrants and refugees.

Re: Random complaints and advice thread 4

Posted: 2015-09-10, 14:07
by vijayjohn
I don't think I'll ever understand what some of y'all have against immigrants and refugees. After all, my own parents are immigrants.

In fact, Levike, technically, you're an immigrant. :?

Re: Random complaints and advice thread 4

Posted: 2015-09-10, 14:19
by Osias
I think they have issues with Muslim immigrants.

Re: Random complaints and advice thread 4

Posted: 2015-09-10, 14:25
by vijayjohn
osias wrote:I think they have issues with Muslim immigrants.

Which I also don't get. I'm not Muslim, but I've met lots of people from Muslim immigrant families in my lifetime. Hell, one of them is part of my own family.

Not to mention that, you know, one of the friendliest mods we have on this forum is an immigrant who I'm pretty darn sure is at least from a Muslim family, if not Muslim herself.

Re: Random complaints and advice thread 4

Posted: 2015-09-10, 14:33
by Levike
Immigrants are not bad. Unskilled people who don't speak the language are the problem.

My city has a lot of French students and everyone loves them.

vijayjohn wrote:I don't think I'll ever understand what some of y'all have against immigrants and refugees. After all, my own parents are immigrants.

We have enough ethnic back-stabbings of our own. No need to add more to it.

In fact, Levike, technically, you're an immigrant. :?

I am not moving here.

Re: Random complaints and advice thread 4

Posted: 2015-09-10, 14:37
by vijayjohn
Levike wrote:We have enough ethnic back-stabbings of our own. No need to add more to it.

So? Take a look at the history of ethnic backstabbings in the US. And yet this is a country whose entire history is founded on immigration, one wave on top of another. In my view, the fact that you have that means the problem is with your country, not with people migrating to it.
In fact, Levike, technically, you're an immigrant. :?

I am not moving here.

The key word is "technically." You're from Romania but currently living in Germany. That already makes you a temporary migrant.

Re: Random complaints and advice thread 4

Posted: 2015-09-10, 14:42
by Levike
vijayjohn wrote:The key word is "technically." You're from Romania but currently living in Germany. That already makes you a temporary migrant.

Yes, but I speak the language, have a job and more importantly didn't jump any fences.

Legal immigrants are not a problem.

The locals ("represented" by their politicians) should decide who gets in and who doesn't.

Re: Random complaints and advice thread 4

Posted: 2015-09-10, 14:49
by vijayjohn
Levike wrote:Legal immigrants are not a problem.

Has the EU not given the immigrants and refugees you're talking about amnesty? Is your country not part of the EU?

And has your government also given them amnesty? Because I really don't get why they shouldn't, and I highly doubt that there's anything you could say to convince me otherwise.

Re: Random complaints and advice thread 4

Posted: 2015-09-10, 14:57
by Levike
vijayjohn wrote:
Levike wrote:Legal immigrants are not a problem.

Has the EU not given the immigrants and refugees you're talking about amnesty? Is your country not part of the EU?

Hungary is leading the army to the Serbian border in order to stop the immigrants.
So I don't think they have a free pass into the EU, or at least Hungary.

Maybe I'm a bit confused by the term, what exactly do you mean by "have been given amnesty".
And by that do you mean the people who are already inside or the ones who are crossing the borders right now?

Re: Random complaints and advice thread 4

Posted: 2015-09-10, 15:06
by Michael
Levike wrote:Yes, but I speak the language, have a job and more importantly didn't jump any fences.

Legal immigrants are not a problem.

The locals ("represented" by their politicians) should decide who gets in and who doesn't.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toL1tXrLA1c

Re: Random complaints and advice thread 4

Posted: 2015-09-10, 15:08
by vijayjohn
They took his dog! I broke his jaw! :lol:
Levike wrote:Maybe I'm a bit confused by the term, what exactly do you mean by "have been given amnesty".

Did the European Union not decide that these immigrants and refugees would be accepted into European territory and divided up among European countries? If that isn't legal migration, then I don't know what is.

Even if it isn't legal migration, or even if they're unskilled, I still don't see the difference. This country could not possibly survive at this point without the labor of people who are usually described as unskilled illegal immigrants. Some states have even tried it before. This shit doesn't work.
And by that do you mean the people who are already in or the ones who are crossing the borders right now?

Both!

Re: Random complaints and advice thread 4

Posted: 2015-09-10, 15:18
by IpseDixit
vijayjohn wrote:So? Take a look at the history of ethnic backstabbings in the US. And yet this is a country whose entire history is founded on immigration, one wave on top of another. In my view, the fact that you have that means the problem is with your country, not with people migrating to it.


You genocided the native population, stole their land and put the remaining in reservations. Not exactly a country I would take as an example...

Re: Random complaints and advice thread 4

Posted: 2015-09-10, 15:25
by vijayjohn
IpseDixit wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:So? Take a look at the history of ethnic backstabbings in the US. And yet this is a country whose entire history is founded on immigration, one wave on top of another. In my view, the fact that you have that means the problem is with your country, not with people migrating to it.


You genocided the native population, stole their land and put the remaining in reservations.

Actually, I had no part in such things, but this country also had several waves of immigration after white people got here. Sure, they have their problems, but some people make it out to be like having immigrants is Armageddon or something. It's not.

Besides, when was the last time you heard "the native population" complaining just because white people exist in this country? There's a difference between immigration and invasion, and there's a difference between complaining about people literally stealing your land and complaining about people existing in it.

Re: Random complaints and advice thread 4

Posted: 2015-09-10, 15:40
by IpseDixit
All the following waves of immigrants are thanks to the genocide and to the fact that the white man took possession of that land.

Re: Random complaints and advice thread 4

Posted: 2015-09-10, 15:45
by vijayjohn
IpseDixit wrote:All the following waves of immigrants are thanks to the genocide and to the fact that the white man took possession of that land.

So? That still doesn't negate everything that happened after it.

Re: Random complaints and advice thread 4

Posted: 2015-09-10, 15:47
by IpseDixit
All I want to say is that I'm a bit tired of hearing people compare the US with Europe and totally ignore this basic difference. If America is or was a successful history of immigration, it's primeraly because you exterminated the local people. Period.

Re: Random complaints and advice thread 4

Posted: 2015-09-10, 15:52
by vijayjohn
IpseDixit wrote:All I want to say is that I'm a bit tired of hearing people compare the US with Europe and totally ignore this basic difference. If America is or was a succesful history of immigration, it's primeraly because you exterminated the local people. Period.

No, it's not. The US is just one example. You can look at all sorts of other countries around the world that do not have the problems with immigration that Eastern Europe seems to have.

Re: Random complaints and advice thread 4

Posted: 2015-09-10, 16:10
by IpseDixit
No, it's not.


How can you say that?

You can look at all sorts of other countries around the world that do not have the problems with immigration that Eastern Europe seems to have.


Like the US with Mexico or India with Bangadlesh? In both cases you built walls and fences on the border in order to prevent entrace to immigrants, the same thing that Hungary is trying to do and being hardly criticized for.

Gosh, India even seems to have a shoot-to-kill policy.

Oh, and there is also the Nicaragua-Mexico border.

Then there is Australia which AFAIK dumps immigrants in the Fiji Islands, and probably a lot of other countries with the same immigration problems which I'm not aware of.

vijayjohn wrote:The key word is "technically." You're from Romania but currently living in Germany. That already makes you a temporary migrant.


Free movement of workers is a fundamental principle of the Treaty enshrined in Article 45 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union and developed by EU secondary legislation and the Case law of the Court of Justice. EU citizens are entitled to:

-look for a job in another EU country
-work there without needing a work permit
-reside there for that purpose
-stay there even after employment has finished
-enjoy equal treatment with nationals in access to employment, working conditions and all other social and tax advantages


http://ec.europa.eu/social/main.jsp?catId=457&langId=en