European refugee crisis [split]

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vijayjohn
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Re: European refugee crisis [split]

Postby vijayjohn » 2015-11-01, 20:15

Levike wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:
TeneReef wrote:They are too picky for refugees.

Then try being one yourself.

Beggars can't be choosers.

Honestly, again. Try being one yourself.

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Re: European refugee crisis [split]

Postby Levike » 2015-11-01, 20:35

vijayjohn wrote:Honestly, again. Try being one yourself.

By that logic we should put them in 5* hotels if they asked.
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Re: European refugee crisis [split]

Postby vijayjohn » 2015-11-01, 20:36

Levike wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:Honestly, again. Try being one yourself.

By that logic we should put them in 5* hotels if they asked.

How the heck do you logically go from "try being a refugee yourself" to "we should put them in five-star hotels"?

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Re: European refugee crisis [split]

Postby Levike » 2015-11-01, 20:41

vijayjohn wrote:How the heck do you logically go from "try being a refugee yourself" to "we should put them in five-star hotels"?

To quote from the link TeneReef gave:

"The group refusing to get off the bus have complained about being in a forest dozens of kilometres from the nearest town, and many of them have demanded to be taken to a big city, or even to Germany."

To this your response was "Then try being one yourself."

Sorry, but declining an offer like the one they got for reasons like this is just being too picky.
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Re: European refugee crisis [split]

Postby vijayjohn » 2015-11-01, 20:44

Levike wrote:Sorry, but declining an offer like the one they got for reasons like this is just being too picky.

It's easy for you to say "they're being too picky," but that's only because you're looking at this entire issue strictly from one side. Plus, you seem to have zero idea what they have to say for themselves, or even really who the heck they are. If you don't look at both perspectives, you're never going to find a solution that actually works.

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Re: European refugee crisis [split]

Postby Levike » 2015-11-01, 20:47

vijayjohn wrote:It's easy for you to say "they're being too picky,"

So you're saying they should be brought into a big city just because they requested to?
Last edited by Levike on 2015-11-01, 20:50, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: European refugee crisis [split]

Postby vijayjohn » 2015-11-01, 20:49

Levike wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:It's easy for you to say "they're being too picky,"

So you're saying they should be brought into a big city just because they requested to?

No. I'm simply saying don't jump to conclusions about their attitudes just because they said something you don't like or understand.

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Re: European refugee crisis [split]

Postby Levike » 2015-11-01, 20:54

vijayjohn wrote:No. I'm simply saying don't jump to conclusions about their attitudes just because they said something you don't like or understand.

They already stated their reasons for not accepting what they have been offered.

And their reasons are "it's to isolated" and "it's not a big town". Now please. These complaints are ridiculous.
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Re: European refugee crisis [split]

Postby md0 » 2015-11-01, 20:54

Does it cross your mind that maybe those "beggars" want to be part of a society, and not hidden away in the forests?
How are they going to find employment and/or reunify with family and friends in Bumtown, Nowhere? (or as we say in Greek, where Devil's mother lives).

Think of all the reasons you wouldn't want to be forcibly confined in a remote town, and then accept that those reasons can be felt by people with darker skin than you. You know, basic fucking empathy.
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Re: European refugee crisis [split]

Postby Levike » 2015-11-01, 21:02

meidei wrote:Does it cross your mind that maybe those "beggars" want to be part of a society, and not hidden away in the forests?

Those people haven't even been accepted yet, they are currently only asylum seekers in an asylum centre.
So maybe the authorities were planning on eventually moving them elsewhere. You and I cannot know that.

"asylum claims were assessed" - quote from the link

And for the ones that'll get accepted: If ordinary Swedes can live in villages then ordinary Iraqis can too.
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Re: European refugee crisis [split]

Postby md0 » 2015-11-01, 21:06

Asylum centres purposefully build in remote areas are violating basic standards of human dignity. The centre in Cyprus is literally located in the middle of nowhere. Combined with the sparse bus network in Cyprus, they are basically running an open-air prison, even though asylum centres are supposed to be housing units, not prisons (because as people finally understood, an asylum seeker is not a criminal even under the current laws, they are not supposed to be detained; they only "become criminal" if their applications are rejected and then they are detained pending deportation).
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Re: European refugee crisis [split]

Postby Levike » 2015-11-01, 21:16

meidei wrote:Asylum centres purposefully build in remote areas are violating basic standards of human dignity. The centre in Cyprus is literally located in the middle of nowhere. Combined with the sparse bus network in Cyprus, they are basically running an open-air prison.

I really doubt Swedish asylum centres are "prison-like".

And they didn't even want to get off the busses to enter it, so their claims are still ridiculous.
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Re: European refugee crisis [split]

Postby vijayjohn » 2015-11-01, 21:18

Levike wrote:
meidei wrote:Asylum centres purposefully build in remote areas are violating basic standards of human dignity. The centre in Cyprus is literally located in the middle of nowhere. Combined with the sparse bus network in Cyprus, they are basically running an open-air prison.

I really doubt Swedish asylum centres are "prison-like".

Are they not also basically located in the middle of nowhere?

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Re: European refugee crisis [split]

Postby Levike » 2015-11-01, 21:22

vijayjohn wrote:Are they not also basically located in the middle of nowhere?

They are at a village, a place where Swedish people themselves live.

"I would love to live in rural Dalarna (if it was right for Sophia Helqvist it should be great for anyone)." - TeneReef
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Re: European refugee crisis [split]

Postby vijayjohn » 2015-11-01, 21:42

Levike wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:Are they not also basically located in the middle of nowhere?

They are at a village, a place where Swedish people themselves live.

Yeah, but as meidei pointed out, Swedish people living in a Swedish village and these people living in the same village are not the same thing. Swedish people have been living in these villages for hundreds of years; no one moved them there AFAICT. But for foreigners, the middle of the countryside where people go for summer vacation is hardly an area where you can expect to find, you know, jobs. No one just becomes locals who live off the land at the drop of a hat.

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Re: European refugee crisis [split]

Postby Levike » 2015-11-01, 22:02

vijayjohn wrote:But for foreigners, the middle of the countryside where people go for summer vacation is hardly an area where you can expect to find.

They are asylum seekers in an asylum centre waiting for their asylum requests to be assessed.
They are not supposed to find jobs there.

So the point remains, these people have huge and ridiculous expectations.
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Re: European refugee crisis [split]

Postby vijayjohn » 2015-11-01, 22:17

Levike wrote:They are not supposed to find jobs there.

Then how are they supposed to survive?

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Re: European refugee crisis [split]

Postby Levike » 2015-11-01, 22:22

vijayjohn wrote:
Levike wrote:They are not supposed to find jobs there.

Then how are they supposed to survive?

It's an asylum centre for God's sake, they are being given food and stuff.

It's not even decided if they're allowed to stay or get deported. Who knows what plans the Swedish authorities have for those who'll get accepted, they'll probably get moved elsewhere, where they can eventually work and start integrating with the locals.
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Re: European refugee crisis [split]

Postby vijayjohn » 2015-11-02, 1:50

Levike wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:
Levike wrote:They are not supposed to find jobs there.

Then how are they supposed to survive?

It's an asylum centre for God's sake, they are being given food and stuff.

Do you actually have any evidence that they are, or are you just assuming that simply because they're in an asylum center?

And even if they are, how is it supposed to help them if the local citizenry assumes that they're just dicking around in a village getting all this free stuff from the government, instead of actually going somewhere where they can get jobs and contribute to society?

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Re: European refugee crisis [split]

Postby Johanna » 2015-11-02, 4:08

From someone who actually lives in the country where this has taken place:

1) The information they have gotten is often really bad, so when the bus stops at a place that looks to be located in the middle of nowhere, in a deep dark forest, of course it's a very uncomfortable situation for hem. I mean, I don't like walking around by myself in the forest, especially not after dark, and I grew up next to one. These people come from cities for the most part.

2) The refugees don't want to sit around in these sort of boarding homes for asylum seekers that at a first glance seem to be located far away from civilization, they want to create a life for themselves. Work, be productive, not leech off our welfare. Also, they don't want to be left alone with nothing to do but replay the things they've seen on their way here in their minds.

3) Usually the whole thing has been solved in a few days and everyone involved satisfied with the solution, but by then media has stopped giving a shit.

Edit: IIRC they are given a small sum of money, but it's really low and more fitting for living (still as a poor refugee) in for example Hungary than Sweden even when compensated for the fact that they don't pay rent. They don't get food, at least not everywhere, and where they do they still have to pay for it, although it does save them a bus ticket to the nearest grocery store so that's a plus. Not that it helps that much in the long run since this time of year winter clothes is a must and those are pretty expensive when you're on a tight budget.

Edit 2: Yes, the plans are that they can move to wherever they want and start integrating themselves, the problem is that getting asylum takes up to a year these days, and in the meantime they don't have the right to work and they don't get any instruction in Swedish, they're supposed to simply wait, living in a place where you might very well be two families in a room, depending on the size of it.

Edit 3: I wouldn't say "try being a refugee", I would say "Try sharing a room with 7 other people, living on €7 a day outside a village or small town somewhere deep in the forest, not being able to work, and without any wifi. For a year".
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