linguoboy wrote:Incidentally, I don't perceive this space as a welcoming or a safe one and that has nothing to do with the sentiments expressed by particular members and everything to do with how power is exercised within it.
I'm not sure how to interpret this. What exactly do you mean? That we use (abuse) the power we've been given to do as we see fit? My own partner, who was then a member of admin team, left UniLang because he was made to feel unwelcome and unsafe; do you really think I wouldn't have permabanned the people responsible for that if I felt fine exercising power as I see fit, instead of adhering to the forum policy, trying to be as fair as possible? Years ago, we drew up a forum policy and a ban policy, to avoid arbitrary decisions, and to make the decision-making process as fair as possible. We published these policies, so that all members can see them and know how this forum is moderated. If there is anything you or any other member would like to see changed, or would like to be clarified more, there is a whole subforum for information, input and questions. We may not always react (immediately), but your post/suggestion/...
will be read and discussed.
linguoboy wrote:Aurinĭa wrote:linguoboy wrote:I find it really hard to comprehend how the presence of one lone person ranting against cis men in this forum can have the effect of making this an "unsafe space"
Because one person's ranting can be all that's needed to make you feel very unwelcome indeed.
We want this forum to be a welcoming space for everyone, not only for those who might have a harder time being welcomed in society at large.
A "welcoming space" and a "safe space" are not the same thing, although they have some aspects in common.
So if somebody tells you they wish they could kick you out, saying they would if it were a physical meeting instead of an online discussion, would you describe this as "not a welcoming space" or "not a safe space" for you?
vijayjohn wrote:Aurinĭa wrote:Because one person's ranting can be all that's needed to make you feel very unwelcome indeed.
We want this forum to be a welcoming space for everyone, not only for those who might have a harder time being welcomed in society at large.
But that isn't really possible anyway, is it? People can and do feel unwelcome for all sorts of reasons that aren't necessarily under our control. I have seen all of the following happen on this forum:
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a) Some people feel unwelcome because they feel a social privilege that they have is being taken away and they perceive that as a personal attack or even a crisis.
b) Others feel unwelcome because they do not have certain social privileges and find themselves being attacked on those grounds.
c) Still others feel unwelcome because they hold political views that are unpopular with other users or even get them banned.
There are also people who feel unwelcome because:
d) no one (including the admins) seems to like them even though they're really very nice people if you bother to try making friends with them,
e) they have witnessed other people being attacked or even banned and that scares them away from the forum or at least from certain parts of the forum where it turns out they actually are welcome, or
f) they have a mental disorder/illness/whatever that prevents them from getting along with other people or even sometimes from being civil to other users, or that causes them to perceive personal attacks where others can see that none were made.
g) And finally, there are people who feel unwelcome because of some combination of the above reasons.
So who
do you want this to be a welcoming space for, exactly? Surely it's obvious that you can't please
everyone. You really have no choice but to take
some sort of clear stand on who you will and will not accept beyond just "we will not accept spammers or people who we think consistently break the rules."
Obviously, the raison d'être for this forum is to provide a place where people can practise and discuss language(s), but we want this forum to be a welcoming space for everyone who adheres to the rules (I'd like to refer to the forum policy here, specifically
point 2: behaviour and general rules).
What I was talking about in my earlier post, was not because of any of these reasons.
I'm not going to say anything about people who feel unwelcome because of bans or ban-worthy offenses, because that means they didn't follow the forum rules, so they have themselves to thank for not feeling welcome.
I'm not sure you are talking about in d). I do my best not to let any personal thoughts or feelings I may have about other members or posts influence the tone or content of what I say here; and definitely not what I say or do as an admin. I think I can speak for all other admins here as well.
As for f), there are people in the admin team who've been trying to cope with mental health problems for years, so we do try to be understanding of such things, but surely you can see how being treated uncivilly/attacked without provocation would make
other members feel unwelcome? If someone is prone to moods where their abily to judge fairly/behave civilly/..., perhaps something could be worked out? I recently found out there's a possibility for pre-moderating posts. Or less drastic, if you said something you uncivil or perceived a personal attack where none was made, you could go back and edit your post (if it wasn't very long ago), or apologise in the same thread.