Gender thread

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What is your gender identity?

Agender
2
4%
Aliagender
0
No votes
Ambigender
0
No votes
Androgyne
0
No votes
Bigender
0
No votes
Cis man
28
54%
Cis woman
6
12%
Demiboy
1
2%
Demigirl
1
2%
Demienby
0
No votes
Feminine-of-Center
2
4%
Genderfluid
0
No votes
Genderless
1
2%
Genderqueer
1
2%
Masculine-of-Center
0
No votes
Multigender
0
No votes
Neutrois
2
4%
Pangender
0
No votes
Polygender
0
No votes
Third gender
0
No votes
(Trans) feminine
2
4%
Trans man
0
No votes
(Trans) masculine
0
No votes
Trans woman
2
4%
Trigender
0
No votes
Other/not listed
4
8%
 
Total votes: 52

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Lauren
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Re: Gender thread

Postby Lauren » 2015-06-01, 3:21

What Alex said. :)
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Re: Gender thread

Postby razlem » 2015-06-02, 2:18

My biological classification is XY. My social identity was assigned male, but gender roles are absolutely ridiculous so I guess I'm other. But if I don't feel like explaining gender theory I usually just tell people male.
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Re: Gender thread

Postby mōdgethanc » 2015-06-03, 4:32

As I already said somewhere, gender roles are not the same thing as genders.

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Re: Gender thread

Postby Lur » 2015-06-03, 12:10

mōdgethanc wrote:As I already said somewhere, gender roles are not the same thing as genders.

I've noticed some cis people switch quickly to talk about gender roles when their cisness comes up, but trans people initially avoid the topic. (At least the adults, trans children live a different situation.)
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Re: Gender thread

Postby Sol Invictus » 2015-06-03, 13:31

mōdgethanc wrote:As I already said somewhere, gender roles are not the same thing as genders.

Wikipedia's definition of gender: Gender is the range of characteristics pertaining to, and differentiating between, masculinity and femininity. Depending on the context, these characteristics may include biological sex (i.e. the state of being male, female or intersex), sex-based social structures (including gender roles and other social roles), or gender identity.

Why do you keep insisting that, if person has no strong gender identity and doesn't like gender roles, they must still pick gender based on their sex?

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Re: Gender thread

Postby Lur » 2015-06-03, 13:36

He's using gender for gender indentity.

In truth, the words "gender identity" are ofen redundant, and using gender for gender roles/gender presentation creates a lot of confusion.
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Re: Gender thread

Postby Lauren » 2015-06-03, 14:49

Sol Invictus wrote:
mōdgethanc wrote:As I already said somewhere, gender roles are not the same thing as genders.

Wikipedia's definition of gender: Gender is the range of characteristics pertaining to, and differentiating between, masculinity and femininity. Depending on the context, these characteristics may include biological sex (i.e. the state of being male, female or intersex), sex-based social structures (including gender roles and other social roles), or gender identity.

Why do you keep insisting that, if person has no strong gender identity and doesn't like gender roles, they must still pick gender based on their sex?

1) Gender is much more complicated than a Wikipedia article. 2) Language use is always more complicated than dictionary definitions. 3) That definition is just plain wrong. Not all people are on the feminine-masculine spectrum. 4) Like Lur said, Alex meant gender identity which is not the same as gender roles.

Lur wrote:
mōdgethanc wrote:As I already said somewhere, gender roles are not the same thing as genders.

I've noticed some cis people switch quickly to talk about gender roles when their cisness comes up, but trans people initially avoid the topic. (At least the adults, trans children live a different situation.)

Yeah, you're right. I think that's them trying to say, "Yeah but, I'm totally not stereotypical. Look at all these ways I'm different!!! Do I fit in now?? Am I queer yet???" No, no you're not. Gender identity and role are not the same thing.
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Re: Gender thread

Postby Hoogstwaarschijnlijk » 2015-06-03, 16:55

Even though I had never heard of the term I voted 'feminine of center' because that sounded the most accurate.
Most of the time I consider gender as a threedimensional cube, where you have 'biological male' in one corner (a, if you take this picture: https://alvianhidayat23.files.wordpress ... .png?w=507) and 'biological female' in the other (b), and then in the other corner 'socially male' (d) and in the other 'socially female' (c) and then 'emotionally male' in the first square (abcd) and 'emotionally female' in the other (efgh). And then each person can be around everywhere in that cube, it doesn't even needs to be consistent the whole time.

Not sure if it's clear, this is the first time I wrote it down but in my mind it's a perfect theory, haha.


[edit] I read now this comment by Bijlee and I really feel the same:

Bijlee wrote:I clicked agender, genderless, and genderqueer going only off what definitions said. I'm female, but I don't really behave very feminine or have particularly feminine interests (nor masculine interests for that matter. At least I don't think so.). I've never really "felt" like a woman, nor anything else (although, sometimes I wish I were born a male).

I might have some level of dysphoria, but I still intend on calling myself a woman because it will cause me less trouble. I don't feel comfortable using these labels personally, nor do I feel the need to find myself a certain gender category. I'd simply rather not have people presume I do this or like that just 'cause I'm female. :|
I think gender would be something I never thought about and I'd just fine with my sex being female if it weren't for stereotypes/ sexism. Though maybe I just don't understand how it is that you identify with a gender. :?
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Re: Gender thread

Postby vijayjohn » 2015-06-03, 17:31

Sol Invictus wrote:Why do you keep insisting that, if person has no strong gender identity and doesn't like gender roles, they must still pick gender based on their sex?

What? Who ever said that?

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Re: Gender thread

Postby Lauren » 2015-06-03, 18:21

Hoogstwaarschijnlijk, your "theory" has the same problem, not everyone is on the feminine-masculine spectrum.

I'm genderfluid. I'm mostly agender but sometimes a little feminine, so only sometimes am I on the "spectrum".
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Re: Gender thread

Postby Sol Invictus » 2015-06-03, 18:46

vijayjohn wrote:
Sol Invictus wrote:Why do you keep insisting that, if person has no strong gender identity and doesn't like gender roles, they must still pick gender based on their sex?

What? Who ever said that?

The general mood in this thread strongly implies that

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Re: Gender thread

Postby Hoogstwaarschijnlijk » 2015-06-03, 19:15

Lauren wrote:Hoogstwaarschijnlijk, your "theory" has the same problem, not everyone is on the feminine-masculine spectrum.

I'm genderfluid. I'm mostly agender but sometimes a little feminine, so only sometimes am I on the "spectrum".


Good point. I could say that then you're moving around in the middle of the cube, but it would still be a spectrum based on a contradiction between masculine and feminine. I need to keep thinking it through some more.
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Re: Gender thread

Postby Lauren » 2015-06-03, 19:19

Hoogstwaarschijnlijk wrote:
Lauren wrote:Hoogstwaarschijnlijk, your "theory" has the same problem, not everyone is on the feminine-masculine spectrum.

I'm genderfluid. I'm mostly agender but sometimes a little feminine, so only sometimes am I on the "spectrum".


Good point. I could say that then you're moving around in the middle of the cube, but it would still be a spectrum based on a contradiction between masculine and feminine. I need to keep thinking it through some more.

No, you couldn't say that. I'm the one that decides what my gender is. And none of me is masculine, so I myself am on more of an agender-feminine spectrum. Your theory is just flawed.

Sol Invictus wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:
Sol Invictus wrote:Why do you keep insisting that, if person has no strong gender identity and doesn't like gender roles, they must still pick gender based on their sex?

What? Who ever said that?

The general mood in this thread strongly implies that

Where the fuck are you getting that idea? I have a penis but am not a man or masculine at all like some think I should be. We're just saying that people are confusing gender identity and gender roles, as cis people are wont to do.
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Re: Gender thread

Postby Sol Invictus » 2015-06-03, 20:17

Lauren wrote:
Sol Invictus wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:
Sol Invictus wrote:Why do you keep insisting that, if person has no strong gender identity and doesn't like gender roles, they must still pick gender based on their sex?

What? Who ever said that?

The general mood in this thread strongly implies that

Where the fuck are you getting that idea? I have a penis but am not a man or masculine at all like some think I should be. We're just saying that people are confusing gender identity and gender roles, as cis people are wont to do.

Except that nobody was confused, you're just making a ton of objections when somebody comes and says that they are not queer, but don't fully identify with their biological sex either, which is really off-putting in a thread supposedly made to explore the topic on deeper level

EDIT: What I meant by queer is people who have strong gender identity that is not cis, I guess. Every person that posts here identifying as their biological sex, but rather than choosing cis, say that they don't feel strongly about it, gets jumped on and advised that their views are wrong in one way or another.
Last edited by Sol Invictus on 2015-06-04, 18:32, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Gender thread

Postby Lur » 2015-06-03, 20:21

What does queer means there?
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Re: Gender thread

Postby razlem » 2015-06-03, 20:30

Why is it important to have a gender identity? I'm not sure I understand how it benefits anyone.
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Re: Gender thread

Postby Lur » 2015-06-03, 20:33

razlem wrote:Why is it important to have a gender identity? I'm not sure I understand how it benefits anyone.

It doesn't look like something people have control over. If anything, it can be repressed. Which isn't beneficial.
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Re: Gender thread

Postby Lauren » 2015-06-03, 20:35

razlem wrote:Why is it important to have a gender identity? I'm not sure I understand how it benefits anyone.

For trans and NB people it is very important because we are uncomfortable with what cis people (try to) impose on us, and the verbal and physical violence we are subjected to often.

Not being trans/NB you obviously don't understand. Just like many white people don't understand why it's important to recognize race and why representation is important for people of color.
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Re: Gender thread

Postby razlem » 2015-06-03, 20:41

Lauren wrote:Not being trans/NB you obviously don't understand

I am non-binary...

And what the hell does this have to do with race?

Edit: it says male on my profile, but there arent any other options (checking now though)
Edit 2: yeah, only male, female, and unspecified.
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Re: Gender thread

Postby Lauren » 2015-06-03, 20:52

You do not seem to have any knowledge or experience of how trans/NB people are treated in society. Otherwise you'd understand why our identities are important to us. Sure, in a utopia where everything is perfect no one would be hated for their gender and it wouldn't matter. But the fact in the real world is the opposite. Gender stereotypes and violence exist.

Have a read of this. It's very similar to the importance of gender identity.
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