Gender thread

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What is your gender identity?

Agender
2
4%
Aliagender
0
No votes
Ambigender
0
No votes
Androgyne
0
No votes
Bigender
0
No votes
Cis man
23
51%
Cis woman
4
9%
Demiboy
1
2%
Demigirl
1
2%
Demienby
0
No votes
Feminine-of-Center
2
4%
Genderfluid
0
No votes
Genderless
1
2%
Genderqueer
1
2%
Masculine-of-Center
0
No votes
Multigender
0
No votes
Neutrois
2
4%
Pangender
0
No votes
Polygender
0
No votes
Third gender
0
No votes
(Trans) feminine
2
4%
Trans man
0
No votes
(Trans) masculine
0
No votes
Trans woman
2
4%
Trigender
0
No votes
Other/not listed
4
9%
 
Total votes: 45

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Lur
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Re: Gender thread

Postby Lur » 2015-06-11, 13:58

Here's something funny to me that I've noticed: while in English using trans as a noun is a big no-no, here you can sometimes use it like that (but definitely not transgénero o transexual) and it doesn't necesarily sound bad. It's used in a manner similar to "lesbian", but only sometimes. I have to admit that "una [mujer] trans" is much better than the mainstream "un transexual", that besides sounding wrong, you never know what the hell people who say that have in mind.

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Re: Gender thread

Postby mōdgethanc » 2015-06-12, 3:34

Sol Invictus wrote:I already explained what the issue is several pages ago, I was talking about general attitude in the thread, not you specifically
You should've made that clear when you addressed me with "you". Also, I'm unsure what your point is. I think there is broad agreement here that gender is not the same thing as sex, and that you (as in generic "you") don't have to identify as any gender if you (generic) don't want to.
Gender is a cultural thing, people can't choose who to fall in love with, but they can choose to think (or not to think) people need to be treated differently based on how they look and things they do and if they need to pack it all under some label.
Once again, you're confusing gender with gender roles. I'm doubtful that gender is purely a cultural phenomenon; if that were so, then conversion therapy would work, but it doesn't.
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Re: Gender thread

Postby Varislintu » 2015-06-12, 6:59

Lur wrote:Here's something funny to me that I've noticed: while in English using trans as a noun is a big no-no, here you can sometimes use it like that (but definitely not transgénero o transexual) and it doesn't necesarily sound bad. It's used in a manner similar to "lesbian", but only sometimes. I have to admit that "una [mujer] trans" is much better than the mainstream "un transexual", that besides sounding wrong, you never know what the hell people who say that have in mind.


While watching the British TV series Happy Valley, I realised they call "transporter vans" trannies. :shock: Of course, it's not directly linked to the derogative term tranny used about trans people, but somehow it still surprised me. They must end up saying "tranny/trannie" in public regularly and some trans person will probably think they overheard a derogatory term. In the series, a police called dispatch for a search for a "white tranny", and that just rang so, so wrong in my ears.
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Sol Invictus
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Re: Gender thread

Postby Sol Invictus » 2015-06-12, 7:16

Modge, you clearly understand that I wasn't using singular you. I get how you could have misunderstood me, but I allready explained what I meant. I don't see why this thread needs to constantly turned into argument, when we could just listen to each other and try to understand what was said, instead of flat out assuming that something is wrong - this could be a thread in which we learn from each other, rather than constant flame war

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Re: Gender thread

Postby loqu » 2015-06-12, 8:26

Lur wrote:Here's something funny to me that I've noticed: while in English using trans as a noun is a big no-no, here you can sometimes use it like that (but definitely not transgénero o transexual) and it doesn't necesarily sound bad. It's used in a manner similar to "lesbian", but only sometimes. I have to admit that "una [mujer] trans" is much better than the mainstream "un transexual", that besides sounding wrong, you never know what the hell people who say that have in mind.

:shock: I would have thought otherwise. I thought una trans would be demeaning so I avoid it. But of course I don't say un transexual either, that sounds hurtful.
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Re: Gender thread

Postby Lur » 2015-06-12, 11:50

loqu wrote: :shock: I would have thought otherwise. I thought una trans would be demeaning so I avoid it. But of course I don't say un transexual either, that sounds hurtful.

Now I'm thinking and I'm not sure if I've only heard trans as an occasional noun from trans people.

Then there's the usage of "mujeres y trans" to include trans guys, I don't know how they feel about that. (Or sometimes they mean "cis women and trans men" with that :| )

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Re: Gender thread

Postby Lur » 2015-06-19, 8:39

Here's the thing that occurs to me about Aurinia's question about wether gender is simply a reaction to gender roles: it would imply that two people subject to the same gender roles who react differently to those are by necessity of a different gender. But this doesn't happen.

They could be cis people of the same gender. They could be trans people of the same gender. And they could be a trans and a cis person of the same gender. And they could still react and process those gender roles very, very differently.

Gender is like a verbs in a language with several conjugation paradigms. Each conjugation is a gender. Each possible tense is a possible "presentation/roles" for each of these irregular conjugations. There's also us irregular verbs, who have all these possible tenses too.

הענט

Re: Gender thread

Postby הענט » 2015-07-13, 10:43

First off, I want to apologize for my previous behavior, because everybody's entitled to choose whatever gender they feel like.

I have a question though. How related are gender and sexuality? Let's say we have a bisexual man and he likes women as a cis man and men as a cis man (hetero + homo). But then you can have someone who feels like both man and a woman and likes both women and men. Does that make him a straight bigender guy?

Another thing is that sex and gender may have different implication in English, but in Czech we use the word pohlaví which means the sexual organ as well as sex in forms to fill out or gender

Jaké je tvé pohlaví? Muž nebo žena? (What's your sex/gender. Man or a woman?)
Mužské a ženské pohlaví / pohlavní orgány. ( male and female sexual organs)

I'm sure every language has a slightly different situation.

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Re: Gender thread

Postby linguoboy » 2015-07-15, 17:32

Dr. House wrote:I have a question though. How related are gender and sexuality? Let's say we have a bisexual man and he likes women as a cis man and men as a cis man (hetero + homo). But then you can have someone who feels like both man and a woman and likes both women and men. Does that make him a straight bigender guy?

But what if they like women as a woman and men as a man?

I guess it depends who's asking, and for what purpose. I would still consider the person "bisexual" because bisexuality is defined as an attraction to both males and females. They may have some other term for their sexuality (such as "pansexual", "queer", or "fluid") and I would make a good-faith effort to respect their usage.
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Re: Gender thread

Postby Lauren » 2015-07-15, 19:22

The important thing here would be to ask the person how they identify. That person knows best, and if it's any of your business they could tell you.
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Re: Gender thread

Postby vijayjohn » 2015-07-15, 20:19

This reminds me of something I've wanted to ask for a long time but was never really sure how to ask. I'm going to use "they/them" not because those are the pronouns the person I'm talking about prefers but rather in an effort to use gender-neutral pronouns and thus refrain from outing the person.

Once upon a time, I made best friends with someone, or so I thought. They had a blog that I could find very easily, and I have mentioned one of their blog posts to them in person. I have also asked several times about how they were feeling based on what they said on their blog (because they suffered from depression and I wanted to help as a friend who cared, and they were more open about it on their blog than anywhere else). There were several times when they stopped talking to me for weeks or even months (this was why I relied on their blog so much), but I always reached out as often as possible, and eventually they came back and explained what happened.

One time, they stopped talking to me and contacted me only once. This time, they sounded kind of angry at me and suggested that I should give them some space, neither of which had ever happened before, although I wasn't sure whether they were really angry and tried not to take it personally and to lay off a bit. I still tried to reach out every now and then (less often than usual) but have never gotten a response since. A few months after they contacted me, they came out as trans on their blog, and I tried to show my support for them. Gradually, it became increasingly clear that they had no intention of continuing to be friends with me, although they never came right out and said it to me specifically. In any case, I know what pronouns this person now prefers.

Now, the problem is that other people who are still in touch with me and also used to know this person never read this blog and are not aware that this person is trans. However, they occasionally bring up this person, using the name and pronouns that they no longer use.

So my question is: What should I do?

When talking to these people, should I use the pronouns this person prefers? Wouldn't that be outing them?

Should I use the pronouns they used to prefer? Wouldn't that be misgendering them?

Should I just use they/them? Should I use something like "this person"? Would that look suspiciously weird if everyone else is using the same pronouns they used to use to refer to the person?

Should I avoid gender pronouns altogether? This is what I have been trying to do so far, but how long can I keep that up without that looking suspicious? Or should I try to steer the conversation topic away from this person altogether?

Should I just contact the person again to ask what to do? But given that they still haven't said anything to me, what are the chances I'll ever get a response anyway? What if I don't get one?

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Re: Gender thread

Postby mōdgethanc » 2015-07-17, 4:23

Dr. House wrote:First off, I want to apologize for my previous behavior, because everybody's entitled to choose whatever gender they feel like.
Some might argue nobody chooses their gender (or at least most people don't) but rather they choose how they want to identify themselves. But it's very gracious of you to apologize.
I have a question though. How related are gender and sexuality? Let's say we have a bisexual man and he likes women as a cis man and men as a cis man (hetero + homo). But then you can have someone who feels like both man and a woman and likes both women and men. Does that make him a straight bigender guy?
Gender and sexuality are not strictly related. I've never encountered that particular example but I would say that person would be bisexual and bigender.
Another thing is that sex and gender may have different implication in English, but in Czech we use the word pohlaví which means the sexual organ as well as sex in forms to fill out or gender
In English these forms would probably say "sex" and mean biological sex, as in anatomy, as in genitals.

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Re: Gender thread

Postby Koko » 2015-07-30, 22:47

http://nonbinary.org/wiki/Xenogender

Having read this, I suddenly realize how slightly loosely I identify with "cis-male." But even with this revelation I still can't figure out exactly how I don't or what else suites me, which is when I came across glitchgender and heliogender. But then it became obvious that my gender doesn't have glitches and does indeed exist, so neither term truly can identify me.

Later in that list, there's noungender, where the noun your gender is described by and "sky" immediately came to me. I am male (calm sky, maybe clouds or stars), but every so often a storm comes along and I am temporarily non-male.

However, I can't quite place what I am during these storms; I don't feel female, I don't feel feminine, I don't feel genderless, neutrois, demigender or anything. I simply am not male. This is why the sky seems best for me: there is confusion and chaos, like a storm.

These storms do not happen often, but enough for me to name them a part of my gender identity.

(I would still like to be referred to by the masculine pronouns he/him/his.)

EDIT: I'd like to mention that even though I'm not entirely male, I will probably still be calling myself so… unless clarity is needed or these storms ever occur more frequently. I personally don't consider my gender a big part of who I am, at least no bigger than I view my skin colour a part.

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Re: Gender thread

Postby Koko » 2015-07-31, 3:51

Since I am not wholly male, would that make me a demiboy/-guy/-enby? (noted that I am mostly male)

For now I still have my votes as "cis man" and "other."

I feel like to check "cis man" (on the poll) is wrong.


EDIT: I answered myself: Yes! I am a demiguy. The other part of my gender is… N/A. All while being ouranogender (self-coined term for the gender described in above post).
Last edited by Koko on 2015-07-31, 9:33, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Gender thread

Postby Koko » 2015-07-31, 7:55

linguoboy wrote:I would still consider the person "bisexual" because bisexuality is defined as an attraction to both males and females.

Or any combination of two genders, or even more than two. Bisexuality has come to be somewhat of a synonym of pansexuality. A pansexual could call themselves bisexual, and so could the reverse be true if the bisexual felt attraction to more than two genders.

However, bisexuality is indeed usually used for attraction to both males and females.

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Re: Gender thread

Postby Koko » 2015-08-01, 4:21

I've a question on pronouns. When referring to someone who takes the pronoun ne (for example), can I only ever refer to nem with that pronoun, or is singular they okay? 'Cause I use they for basically everbody even when I perfectly well know their gender. So could I call nem "they" if ne only tell me that ne want to be referred by the ne-set?? (I mean, I could obviously get used to using the ne-set for nem, but) Or would I have to ask nem myself?

(and ne's never said a thing about they)

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Re: Gender thread

Postby razlem » 2015-08-01, 6:42

"They" is gender neutral. You can use it for any gender or if the gender is unknown.

(I'm going over this in my head, and it seems that "ne" can be a phonological variation of "they" in some dialects...)
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Re: Gender thread

Postby Koko » 2015-08-01, 7:39

razlem wrote:"They" is gender neutral. You can use it for any gender or if the gender is unknown.

(I'm going over this in my head, and it seems that "ne" can be a phonological variation of "they" in some dialects...)

Kay, that's what I thought. Thanks for the conformation ^^

On the nonbinary wiki, basically any pronoun listed that isn't created for a specific gender (like nounself pronouns are) can be used gender-neutrally. I think I may add "ne" to my vocabulary. I always like some variety in pronouns.

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Re: Gender thread

Postby Lauren » 2015-08-01, 7:41

You should only use the pronouns that the person has indicated you should use.
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Re: Gender thread

Postby Koko » 2015-08-01, 7:58

Lauren wrote:You should only use the pronouns that the person has indicated you should use.

So in the situation I had explained I should only ever use ne? I'll respect that if I need to (as in I meet somebody who prefers only one pronoun).

Thanks for the clarification ^^


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