LGBTQA+ issues

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Prowler
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Re: Homophobia

Postby Prowler » 2015-01-14, 16:02

vijayjohn wrote:
Prowler wrote:
Varislintu wrote:So soon homosexuals and transgender people (and also those with sexual fetishes) might not qualify for a driver's license in Russia. What progressive conservatism!

Wait, what? What's their reasoning behind that?

That reminds me, I meant to ask: "those with sexual fetishes"? What does that even mean? Isn't everybody turned on by something? Who is considered to have a sexual fetish, and who is not?

EDIT: Well, okay, I guess not everybody is turned on by something, but still.

Yeah, how the hell can they even know if said person has a weird fetish or not? Do they read her mind?

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md0
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Re: Homophobia

Postby md0 » 2015-01-15, 5:27

Laws like that usually are enforced after some good-meaning neighbour turns you in. That's not only USSR legacy, it was also how it used to go in the former UK colonies that inherited the Victorian-era law banning homosexuality. The police wouldn't set up screening procedures to figure out if you are gay, but they would investigate rumours, especially if they already wanted to frame you for something (say, you are a pro-democracy activist in Russia).

---

In other international news, ten days before Greece's general elections, the party formerly known as "Coalition of Radical Left" (SYRIZA), expected to win a near-majority, backtracked all the way back to the 90s when it comes to same-sex adoption. The party leader in an interview said that the topic cannot be on the party's electoral agenda because "the scientific community is torn on the issue".
SYRIZA leader, who some believed to be a secularist, was last seen in a kissing spree. Kissing priests' hands, as the Orthodox tradition of electing heads of government requires.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_L_n3vJLPuZQ/T ... fanari.jpg
http://www.koolnews.gr/wp-content/uploa ... 00x497.jpg
http://www.newsbeast.gr/files/1/2014/08/08/tsipras.jpg
http://static-enet.toolip.gr/resources/ ... -large.jpg
http://www.trelokouneli.gr/wp-content/u ... 00x530.jpg
http://luben.tv/wp-content/uploads/2015 ... jpg?fc98ca
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Ludwig Whitby
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Re: Homophobia

Postby Ludwig Whitby » 2015-01-15, 12:20

meidei wrote:
In other international news, ten days before Greece's general elections, the party formerly known as "Coalition of Radical Left" (SYRIZA), expected to win a near-majority, backtracked all the way back to the 90s when it comes to same-sex adoption. The party leader in an interview said that the topic cannot be on the party's electoral agenda because "the scientific community is torn on the issue".
SYRIZA leader, who some believed to be a secularist, was last seen in a kissing spree. Kissing priests' hands, as the Orthodox tradition of electing heads of government requires.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_L_n3vJLPuZQ/T ... fanari.jpg
http://www.koolnews.gr/wp-content/uploa ... 00x497.jpg
http://www.newsbeast.gr/files/1/2014/08/08/tsipras.jpg
http://static-enet.toolip.gr/resources/ ... -large.jpg
http://www.trelokouneli.gr/wp-content/u ... 00x530.jpg
http://luben.tv/wp-content/uploads/2015 ... jpg?fc98ca

That's just politics, innit? Collecting votes, trying to make the majority like you. Are you surprized he's doing that? Feel betrayed?

I have a feeling that he'll backtrack even on economic issues and Grexit if he gains power.

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md0
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Re: Homophobia

Postby md0 » 2015-01-15, 13:41

I wasn't surprised at all. The times I had faith in this system mislabelled as representitive democracy are well in the past.

PS. He already backtracked on the economical/diplomacy issues. He's pro-Eurozone, pro-EU, pro-NATO, and wants to "renegotiate" the deal with the IMF. Syriza's Left Platform is a minority in the party nowadays, with 30%. 60% of the "Radical Left" party are actually right-wingers :roll:
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Re: Homophobia

Postby vijayjohn » 2015-01-15, 18:47

meidei wrote:this system mislabelled as representitive democracy

What do you think a more accurate label would be?

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Re: Homophobia

Postby linguoboy » 2015-01-16, 17:12

Varislintu wrote:Those with a perverse mind can't be trusted to drive, you see. More recently, it's been reported as not applying to homosexuals after all, but still transgender and transsexuals and fetishists. I don't know what the plans really are.

Ironically, this sort of reporting may have made it more likely that LGBTQ people will be targeted. See http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/01/15/russia-s-trans-driving-ban-doesn-t-really-target-lgbt-community-it-actually-targets-the-mentally-ill.html.
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Re: Homophobia

Postby Varislintu » 2015-01-16, 19:21

linguoboy wrote:
Varislintu wrote:Those with a perverse mind can't be trusted to drive, you see. More recently, it's been reported as not applying to homosexuals after all, but still transgender and transsexuals and fetishists. I don't know what the plans really are.

Ironically, this sort of reporting may have made it more likely that LGBTQ people will be targeted. See http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/01/15/russia-s-trans-driving-ban-doesn-t-really-target-lgbt-community-it-actually-targets-the-mentally-ill.html.


Great. :/

This got me wondering, though:

In other words, the decree doesn’t target trans people, isn’t a case of ignorance, and (in theory, but maybe not in practice) actually makes perfect sense. If you’ve got a serious mental illness which leads to frequent psychotic breaks, you shouldn’t be driving.


Does it make sense? Do other countries have similar restrictions? (Not asking anyone in particular.)

Also:

It’s even possible that the media reports will become a self-fulfilling prophecy. “Given the existing public discourse and overall political will to target LGBTI people, this leads to a greater risk of active enforcement of the law in relation to people with ‘F64’ records,” Smirnova said, using the ICD-10 classification for gender dysphoria and other gender/sexuality conditions.


Sounds a bit like "We'd make fair rules in Russia, but then your Western media has to let our common people in on issues, and now we have to make them according to the common people's preferences, i.e. lynching mentality".

... I don't like how that shifts the blame. :hmm:
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mōdgethanc
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Re: Homophobia

Postby mōdgethanc » 2015-01-16, 19:26

Varislintu wrote:This got me wondering, though:

In other words, the decree doesn’t target trans people, isn’t a case of ignorance, and (in theory, but maybe not in practice) actually makes perfect sense. If you’ve got a serious mental illness which leads to frequent psychotic breaks, you shouldn’t be driving.


Does it make sense? Do other countries have similar restrictions?
This might make sense if transgender were in fact a) a mental illness and b) substantially more prone to psychosis. So it doesn't make sense even in theory; it's broad-based discrimination against the mentally ill when only a small number of people with a diagnosable disorder would even be at risk for the condition they're basing this on. If anything, they should be going after narcoleptics or something.

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Re: Homophobia

Postby Prowler » 2015-01-23, 3:55

"Portuguese parliament votes against gay couples adopting"

http://www.france24.com/en/20150122-por ... -adopting/

It was supposed to be held a referendum regarding this issue last year, but it ended up not being held at all. With abortion they held several referendums until the majority finally voted "yes". It was obvious they didn't have the guts to pass it on parliament. In this issue they were smart about not wasting ash on a referendum and decided to take it to the parliament instead. Gay adoption is probably gonna be just a matter of time as well.

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Re: Homophobia

Postby Luís » 2015-01-23, 8:48

Basically it will happen when the Socialist Party wins the elections next September.

Can't wait to for this government of right-wing-nutters to finally end its term.
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Re: Homophobia

Postby Prowler » 2015-01-23, 9:32

Luís wrote:Basically it will happen when the Socialist Party wins the elections next September.

Can't wait to for this government of right-wing-nutters to finally end its term.

Things haven't been good, but I don't trust PS either. Both parties have their fault in the current situation we're in. It's been a vicious cycle for decades now and I cannot simply pick scapegoats. It's really hard for me to pick the worst government and PM that I lived through.

Anyway, things have been worse and the country seems to be slowly recovering. Hopefully we won't be under harsh austerity measures for much longer.

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Re: Homophobia

Postby IpseDixit » 2015-03-09, 18:04

I'm watching Mon Incroyable Fiancé which is a program where basically there's this straight guy that has to pretend to be gay and come out to his family, introduce his fake boyfriend to his family and announce that they want to get married and if he manages to do that, he'll win 100,000 euros. It looked somewhat interesting although I didn't expect it to be a masterpiece of LGBT studies, but OMG it's turning out to be tenfold worse than I actually thought since this guy is going to have 2 gay coaches (who are obviously super-caricatural and I'm not even sure they are actually gay, they look more like actors) that apparently are going to teach him how to look gay... *facepalm*

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Re: Homophobia

Postby TeneReef » 2015-03-09, 20:44

:para:

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Re: Homophobia

Postby loqu » 2015-03-10, 15:11

IpseDixit wrote:I'm watching Mon Incroyable Fiancé which is a program where basically there's this straight guy that has to pretend to be gay and come out to his family, introduce his fake boyfriend to his family and announce that they want to get married and if he manages to do that, he'll win 100,000 euros. It looked somewhat interesting although I didn't expect it to be a masterpiece of LGBT studies, but OMG it's turning out to be tenfold worse than I actually thought since this guy is going to have 2 gay coaches (who are obviously super-caricatural and I'm not even sure they are actually gay, they look more like actors) that apparently are going to teach him how to look gay... *facepalm*

:doh: that is quite appalling. And deceiving, since it comes from France and one would expect France to be more progressive than that.

We have a show that was supposed to be a plain reality show at first and then evolved to be kind of a comedy show, it's called Who wants to marry my son, where they take some men and select five women for each man to fight for his attentions (and for his mother's approval). I find it a good sign that they always add in a gay contestant with five suitors also.
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Re: Homophobia

Postby TeneReef » 2015-03-18, 19:22

Måns kallas homofob av utländska tidningar

http://www.aftonbladet.se/nojesbladet/a ... 0478675.ab

I'm appalled by the Facebook comments defending his homophobic remarks. :para:
And this is Sweden, peeps, not Russia.

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-enter ... 10449.html

In some countries everything is fine as long as you apologize afterwards.
Not in my book. :nope:
This reminds me of Catholic Church, you can commit all the sins (cheat, still or even kill),
but after the redemption, you're free from it all. :roll:
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Re: Homophobia

Postby linguoboy » 2015-03-18, 20:22

TeneReef wrote:This reminds me of Catholic Church, you can commit all the sins (cheat, still or even kill), but after the redemption, you're free from it all. :roll:
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Re: Homophobia

Postby hreru » 2015-03-20, 10:24

TeneReef, what's so horrible about what he said that an apology can't be accepted? I don't even think the apology was necessary. Everyone who thinks homosexuality is not natural/normal is homophobic? :shock:

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Re: Homophobia

Postby IpseDixit » 2015-03-20, 10:50

hreru wrote:Everyone who thinks homosexuality is not natural/normal is homophobic? :shock:

Well, that's definitely a homophobic prejudice.

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Re: Homophobia

Postby linguoboy » 2015-03-20, 13:13

hreru wrote:TeneReef, what's so horrible about what he said that an apology can't be accepted? I don't even think the apology was necessary. Everyone who thinks homosexuality is not natural/normal is homophobic? :shock:
Is everyone who thinks it's not natural/normal to be Jewish anti-Semitic?
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Re: Homophobia

Postby hreru » 2015-03-20, 16:26

I've read only the article in The Independent so I don't know if there's something more in it but from what I grasped he thinks homosexuality is weird but he doesn't have any issues with it. I call such an approach tolerance.

It's not that natural/normal equals good and the opposite wrong. I do find homosexuality natural and I'm okay with it, but paedophilia is just as natural and here I can't help being strongly biased. To me homosexuality is both normal as in "belonging to a spectre of accepted behaviour" and abnormal, meaning "deviating from prevailing norm". Why don't you take into account his remark that there isn't anything wrong with it at all, that explains a bit what he meant, don't you think? Or does what I've written about how I see it make me a homophobe as well?

As much as I like the quote linguoboy put here, I don't think this is the case. :nope:

Linguoboy, come on, comparing sexuality and ethnicity, I wouldn't have expected that from you. :wink: But as for your question, are they any people who think it's not natural/normal to be Jewish? I've heard Jews to be inferior, evil, secret rulers of the world and so on, but never unnatural or abnormal.


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