Islamic Terrorism

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linguoboy
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Re: Islamic Terrorism

Postby linguoboy » 2015-12-08, 18:54

vijayjohn wrote:I guess I was wrong then, because apparently Paris doesn't even make it into the top 10. :P

You made need to wait for people to compile their end-of-the-year lists.
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Re: Islamic Terrorism

Postby Car » 2015-12-08, 20:17

vijayjohn wrote:
Saim wrote:You probably still got the wave of Facebook "support" with all those profile pictures though, right?

No, because I don't have Facebook. ;)

It's so weird, like there has to be a hierarchy of significance of terrorist attacks. 9/11 > Paris > everything else.

And yet I've seen Americans complain how people didn't show the same kind of solidarity and sympathy after 9/11 as they did after Paris...
Please correct my mistakes!

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Re: Islamic Terrorism

Postby Aurinĭa » 2015-12-08, 20:28

Car wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:
Saim wrote:You probably still got the wave of Facebook "support" with all those profile pictures though, right?

No, because I don't have Facebook. ;)

It's so weird, like there has to be a hierarchy of significance of terrorist attacks. 9/11 > Paris > everything else.

And yet I've seen Americans complain how people didn't show the same kind of solidarity and sympathy after 9/11 as they did after Paris...

It would've been kind of difficult to overlay your facebook profile picture with an American flag and share quotes years before facebook was founded. And that's the only way many people showed solidarity.

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Re: Islamic Terrorism

Postby vijayjohn » 2015-12-08, 20:53

Car wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:
Saim wrote:You probably still got the wave of Facebook "support" with all those profile pictures though, right?

No, because I don't have Facebook. ;)

It's so weird, like there has to be a hierarchy of significance of terrorist attacks. 9/11 > Paris > everything else.

And yet I've seen Americans complain how people didn't show the same kind of solidarity and sympathy after 9/11 as they did after Paris...

Maybe they just weren't paying attention.

I'm not even entirely sure how much Americans really cared about 9/11 despite all the media attention it got. I remember when it happened; I was in math class. To me, my classmates' reaction seemed exactly like their reaction to Bill Nye the Science Guy: just fascination. Not even horrified fascination. The strongest reaction I ever saw to 9/11 in person in the days following it was a few of my classmates in gym class making dumb jokes about Osama bin Laden. Nevertheless, the local Malayalee community canceled its annual Onam celebrations (Onam is our harvest festival, which we usually celebrate in September here), and when a Kathakali dance troupe was invited to perform here, the first performance they did was in honor of the victims (though they did not actually say this and you had to be pretty familiar with Kathakali to realize it).

EDIT:
Dormouse559 wrote:I hear there are millions of people who have those as many as five times a day. They say all you can do is pray until it passes.

Omg, I didn't get this one until just now! :rotfl:

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Re: Islamic Terrorism

Postby linguoboy » 2015-12-08, 21:59

Car wrote:And yet I've seen Americans complain how people didn't show the same kind of solidarity and sympathy after 9/11 as they did after Paris...

That's because Americans (a) have short memories and (b) will complain about anything. And I may have said this before, but that's what really annoys me about them.
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Re: Islamic Terrorism

Postby johnklepac » 2015-12-09, 4:13

vijayjohn wrote:Here, I get the impression that people aren't even all that sympathetic for the victims of the Paris attacks. They were so upset about September 11, which I can understand to a point, but by contrast, the amount of media coverage I've seen given here to even those attacks seems remarkably underwhelming to me tbh.

What really gets me are the people who give all this crap to people with French-flag profile pictures because terrorist bombings occur every day in poorer parts of the world less dear to the Judeo-Christian US' hearts - and then promptly do nothing and show no support for those victims either.

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Re: Islamic Terrorism

Postby Prowler » 2015-12-09, 5:14

johnklepac wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:Here, I get the impression that people aren't even all that sympathetic for the victims of the Paris attacks. They were so upset about September 11, which I can understand to a point, but by contrast, the amount of media coverage I've seen given here to even those attacks seems remarkably underwhelming to me tbh.

What really gets me are the people who give all this crap to people with French-flag profile pictures because terrorist bombings occur every day in poorer parts of the world less dear to the Judeo-Christian US' hearts - and then promptly do nothing and show no support for those victims either.

Because, sadly, bombings and peopel dying in the Middle East and Sub-Saharan Africa is pretty much a daily occurrence, thus no one gets surprised about it any more. While hundreds of people dying in a Western European country is pretty abnormal. Also, France, being a Western nation is culturally closer and more relatable to other Western nations than countries that many people know nothing about or can even place on the map like Kenya and Syria are. Just like I'm sure Middle Eastern Muslims are more likely to cry when a Palestinian gets killed by Israel than when a Londoner gets stabbed by a nutcase. It's might be messed up, but that's the way it is.

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Re: Islamic Terrorism

Postby Saim » 2015-12-09, 6:54

johnklepac wrote:What really gets me are the people who give all this crap to people with French-flag profile pictures because terrorist bombings occur every day in poorer parts of the world less dear to the Judeo-Christian US' hearts - and then promptly do nothing and show no support for those victims either.


I don't give them crap for terrorist bombings happening all over the world, I give them crap for how superficial and meaningless their "solidarity" is. When I see the same selfies pouting in front of mirrors draped in a tricolour I can't help but laugh at how ridiculous they are.

If this was 2001 I'd also be fine with it but so many years of our governments being enabled by the inaction of average people to go over to what they've erroneously dubbed the "Greater Middle East" and kill even more people has made me disgusted with the whole lot. Call me cynical if you want.

I'm not against people showing solidarity, I'm against selective hysteria of about a week that's followed by collective amnesia and tacit support for policies (i.e. mass murder committed by our own governments) that are demostrably making things worse.

הענט

Re: Islamic Terrorism

Postby הענט » 2015-12-09, 10:43

I think it's nice if some of these people actually bought a flower or lit a candle in front of the French embassy, but clicking on two buttons on Facebook can be hardly called solidarity...

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Re: Islamic Terrorism

Postby linguoboy » 2015-12-09, 18:33

Dr. House wrote:I think it's nice if some of these people actually bought a flower or lit a candle in front of the French embassy, but clicking on two buttons on Facebook can be hardly called solidarity...

But buying a flower can be? Still seems an awfully low bar.

johnklepac wrote:What really gets me are the people who give all this crap to people with French-flag profile pictures because terrorist bombings occur every day in poorer parts of the world less dear to the Judeo-Christian US' hearts - and then promptly do nothing and show no support for those victims either.

And you know this for a fact about them how?
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Re: Islamic Terrorism

Postby vijayjohn » 2015-12-09, 18:40

Saim wrote:I don't give them crap for terrorist bombings happening all over the world, I give them crap for how superficial and meaningless their "solidarity" is. When I see the same selfies pouting in front of mirrors draped in a tricolour I can't help but laugh at how ridiculous they are.

Yesterday, I mentioned Kathakali dancers paying tribute to the 9/11 victims and thought a bit about that. At the time, I figured that the reason why they didn't really explain what they were doing was because 9/11 was still pretty fresh in everyone's minds and they didn't want to risk offending anyone by belaboring the point, but maybe it's also because they didn't care all that much how many people in the audience actually understood their gesture of solidarity. After all, the point was to show solidarity, not to advertise themselves.

הענט

Re: Islamic Terrorism

Postby הענט » 2015-12-10, 0:49

linguoboy wrote:
Dr. House wrote:I think it's nice if some of these people actually bought a flower or lit a candle in front of the French embassy, but clicking on two buttons on Facebook can be hardly called solidarity...

But buying a flower can be? Still seems an awfully low bar.


Buying a flower, travelling 90 km to the capital and finding the embassy requires some extra effort unlike clicking a few times and wait for the likes to start popping up. I didn't do anything. It seemed like an empty gesture for me. Shit happens.

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Re: Islamic Terrorism

Postby Saim » 2015-12-10, 12:16

Image

I kind of forgive people for the whole French flag Facebook fad because of this:

Mark Zuckerberg wrote:I want to add my voice in support of Muslims in our community and around the world.

After the Paris attacks and hate this week, I can only imagine the fear Muslims feel that they will be persecuted for the actions of others.

As a Jew, my parents taught me that we must stand up against attacks on all communities. Even if an attack isn't against you today, in time attacks on freedom for anyone will hurt everyone.

If you're a Muslim in this community, as the leader of Facebook I want you to know that you are always welcome here and that we will fight to protect your rights and create a peaceful and safe environment for you.

Having a child has given us so much hope, but the hate of some can make it easy to succumb to cynicism. We must not lose hope. As long as we stand together and see the good in each other, we can build a better world for all people.

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Re: Islamic Terrorism

Postby Yasna » 2015-12-10, 15:27

Saim wrote:I kind of forgive people for the whole French flag Facebook fad

That's so generous of you. Now I just need to find it in my heart to forgive the people who were so cynical as to disparage a simple token of solidarity after a massacre.
Ein Buch muß die Axt sein für das gefrorene Meer in uns. - Kafka

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Re: Islamic Terrorism

Postby Saim » 2015-12-10, 15:37

Yasna wrote:
Saim wrote:I kind of forgive people for the whole French flag Facebook fad

That's so generous of you. Now I just need to find it in my heart to forgive the people who were so cynical as to disparage a simple token of solidarity after a massacre.


If you want to call vanity and superficiality "solidarity", go ahead.

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Re: Islamic Terrorism

Postby Yasna » 2015-12-10, 16:01

Saim wrote:
Yasna wrote:
Saim wrote:I kind of forgive people for the whole French flag Facebook fad

That's so generous of you. Now I just need to find it in my heart to forgive the people who were so cynical as to disparage a simple token of solidarity after a massacre.


If you want to call vanity and superficiality "solidarity", go ahead.

If you choose to think that people display tokens of solidarity (or support if you like) in order to get "likes", then you must live in a very dark world.
Ein Buch muß die Axt sein für das gefrorene Meer in uns. - Kafka

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Re: Islamic Terrorism

Postby linguoboy » 2015-12-10, 16:17

Yasna wrote:If you choose to think that people display tokens of solidarity (or support if you like) in order to get "likes", then you must live in a very dark world.

I wouldn't say that, exactly, but I feel that--like most activity on social media--it was (in Bourdieuvian terms) much more about reproducing habitus than anything. Many people I know accompanied the switch to an overlaid profile pic with some remarks about how and why Paris holds a special significance for them. I don't question the genuineness of these emotions, but I can't ignore the shared features among these people, who were overwhelmingly of a particular socioeconomic background and status. So at the same time they were proclaiming, "I feel bad for Paris", they were also proclaiming equally loudly or moreso, "I'm the kind of person with the wealth and leisure that allow me to fly to Paris when I want".

Is it cynical to notice that and be somewhat put off by it? Fine, then call me cynical. At least I didn't ask the cynical question that was on my mind at the time, which was, "How will you know when you've shown enough solidarity and it's time to revert to your previous pic?" I know how snarky that sounds, but I'm actually really curious what cues people follow when it comes to shared behaviours like these.
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Re: Islamic Terrorism

Postby vijayjohn » 2015-12-10, 17:00

linguoboy wrote:I'm actually really curious what cues people follow when it comes to shared behaviours like these.

I keep getting the impression it's once everybody's forgotten how worried or concerned they were before.

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Re: Islamic Terrorism

Postby linguoboy » 2015-12-10, 18:39

vijayjohn wrote:
linguoboy wrote:I'm actually really curious what cues people follow when it comes to shared behaviours like these.

I keep getting the impression it's once everybody's forgotten how worried or concerned they were before.

But adopting the flag overlay wasn't a spontaneous decision independently arrived at by millions of people simultaneously. You could watch the spread through social media; days after the attacks, FB was still notifying me of Friends adopting it. They were clearly influenced by the decisions of others around them, and I see no reason why this wouldn't work the same way in reverse. There must be some subconscious mental calculus at work in these situations.

I just did a survey of my Facebook Friends. Out of slightly more than 400, seven still have the tricolore overlay, which is a fraction of how many displayed it during the first week post-attack. Interestingly, twelve still have rainbow flag overlays. (There was a vogue for these which played out in a similar fashion in the wake of the Supreme Court decision on same-sex marriage earlier this year.) One has a Nigerian flag overlay and one has the Bear Flag.
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Re: Islamic Terrorism

Postby vijayjohn » 2015-12-10, 18:47

linguoboy wrote:I just did a survey of my Facebook Friends. Out of slightly more than 400, seven still have the tricolore overlay, which is a fraction of how many displayed it during the first week post-attack.

Wow, it went all the way down to seven? :shock: Well, that was fast! Or must have been. :lol:


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