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Re: Racism

Posted: 2019-09-20, 23:38
by vijayjohn
I was curious as to what kind of videos there are out there about racism in academia. I happened to stumble across this, which is pretty old but I also thought was interesting:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jC2yB2Zusyg
Also I was kind of surprised to find this, not so much because of what happened as because of the fact that it included an actual racist quote from a professor, verbatim:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGiWrEDBtMk

Re: Racism

Posted: 2020-02-04, 14:50
by Yasna

Re: Racism

Posted: 2020-04-08, 8:03
by Car
The BBC posted an article about how African Americans in Chicago, but also elsewhere in the US, are particularly affected by the coronavirus.

Re: Racism

Posted: 2020-04-11, 13:44
by Yasna

Re: Racism

Posted: 2020-05-06, 23:44
by Yasna
Nikole Hannah-Jones won the 2020 Pulitzer Prize for the 1619 Project, a series by The New York Times Magazine with the goal of re-examining the legacy of slavery in the United States. Economist Glenn Loury and linguist John McWhorter respond.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xym3kFuBX3Y

Re: Racism

Posted: 2020-05-07, 15:21
by Yasna

Re: Racism

Posted: 2020-05-08, 13:58
by Gormur
Race is a construct of the government. I admit I don't like being called white so I put other on forms. I don't want people calling me names and spreading hatred

To me other just means go away and I like it :)

Re: Racism

Posted: 2020-05-08, 16:18
by linguoboy
Gormur wrote:Race is a construct of the government. I admit I don't like being called white so I put other on forms.

You know what else is a construct of the government? "Citizenship". That doesn't mean that the effects on how your live your life aren't tangible and huge.

Gormur wrote: I don't want people calling me names and spreading hatred

IME, white folks often feel like POC are "spreading hatred" when all they are actually doing is pointing out how their lived experience is different as a consequence of others' perception of them.

Re: Racism

Posted: 2020-05-08, 21:37
by Gormur
I don't know what you mean by citizenship. Are you talking about owning property? Anyone can do that as far as my knowledge. OK that's a right but citizenship is basically symbolic as far as I'm concerned

As for being white, it's racist too because it assumes a unified culture just like the other types of racism you see going on. I really don't see the point or difference between any of it. I guess because it's just hate-mongering :hmm:

Re: Racism

Posted: 2020-05-08, 21:49
by linguoboy
Gormur wrote:I don't know what you mean by citizenship. Are you talking about owning property? Anyone can do that as far as my knowledge

No, I mean citizenship. This is 100% a legal construct created by the modern nation-state. Yet the concrete impact of being granted or denied citizenship of one type of another has a tremendous impact on an individual's life--and not just in their interactions with the State but with everyone.

Gormur wrote:As for being white, it's racist too because it assumes a unified culture

Yeah, no it doesn't. All it assumes is that a certain segment of the population has a particular range of daily life experiences because of their perceived membership in a certain socially-defined category. It no more "assumes a unified culture" than words like "female", "middle-class", or "teenager" do.

I still don't get where "hate-mongering" comes into this. This is just a fact about persons, like their eye colour or their marital status.

Re: Racism

Posted: 2020-05-08, 22:07
by Gormur
linguoboy wrote:
Gormur wrote:I don't know what you mean by citizenship. Are you talking about owning property? Anyone can do that as far as my knowledge

No, I mean citizenship. This is 100% a legal construct created by the modern nation-state. Yet the concrete impact of being granted or denied citizenship of one type of another has a tremendous impact on an individual's life--and not just in their interactions with the State but with everyone.

Gormur wrote:As for being white, it's racist too because it assumes a unified culture

Yeah, no it doesn't. All it assumes is that a certain segment of the population has a particular range of daily life experiences because of their perceived membership in a certain socially-defined category. It no more "assumes a unified culture" than words like "female", "middle-class", or "teenager" do.

I still don't get where "hate-mongering" comes into this. This is just a fact about persons, like their eye colour or their marital status.
It's still symbolic to me. For example, I know in some countries just being born there doesn't make you an automatic citizen

I realize that isn't even what you're talking about but I find it relevant when thinking about what citizenship means. It has no meaning to me, but that's okay. :hmm:

As to your explanation it sounds like racism although I'm no expert. I guess I'll just assume it's to do with some kind of statistics or studies for academia

Re: Racism

Posted: 2020-05-08, 23:35
by linguoboy
Gormur wrote:It's still symbolic to me. For example, I know in some countries just being born there doesn't make you an automatic citizen

I realize that isn't even what you're talking about but I find it relevant when thinking about what citizenship means. It has no meaning to me, but that's okay.

It definitely has meaning to you, whether you realise it or not. Just ask a deportee.

Gormur wrote:As to your explanation it sounds like racism although I'm no expert. I guess I'll just assume it's to do with some kind of statistics or studies for academia

I suppose if you define "racism" as "recognising the existence of a category called 'race'". That is one definition, but it's one hardly anyone ever uses. For most people, "racism" means something more, generally some form of widespread discrimination based on the category of race. Just being asked to state your race doesn't discriminate against you in any way. I don't think you need to be a statistician or academic to understand that.

Re: Racism

Posted: 2020-05-09, 1:44
by Gormur
linguoboy wrote:
Gormur wrote:It's still symbolic to me. For example, I know in some countries just being born there doesn't make you an automatic citizen

I realize that isn't even what you're talking about but I find it relevant when thinking about what citizenship means. It has no meaning to me, but that's okay.

It definitely has meaning to you, whether you realise it or not. Just ask a deportee.

Gormur wrote:As to your explanation it sounds like racism although I'm no expert. I guess I'll just assume it's to do with some kind of statistics or studies for academia

I suppose if you define "racism" as "recognising the existence of a category called 'race'". That is one definition, but it's one hardly anyone ever uses. For most people, "racism" means something more, generally some form of widespread discrimination based on the category of race. Just being asked to state your race doesn't discriminate against you in any way. I don't think you need to be a statistician or academic to understand that.
It has no meaning to me because I don't understand what it means. To be a citizen of a country just looks like a political map in my eyes :hmm:

I have no definition for racism as I think it's simply a way to hate others while not including yourself in the picture by way of some trivial genetic traits. That also seems primarily political to me when it's rendered as this intellectual notion when in reality it's just a low-brow form of selective hatred

Re: Racism

Posted: 2020-05-09, 4:10
by vijayjohn
What a coincidence that people are discussing racism here at this exact time! I literally just got kicked out of a Discord chat because I said the mods were racist and they got mad.

Re: Racism

Posted: 2020-05-09, 9:04
by france-eesti
Hey I'm sorry Vijay! But was that true? Were they indeed racists? :shock:

Re: Racism

Posted: 2020-05-09, 10:39
by vijayjohn
Yes. They are mostly typical white American liberals, except worse because this is the Discord server for a subreddit. They will never, ever admit to being racist, yet they shut down anyone saying anything about racism that doesn't fit with their own cute and oversimplified understanding of racism. They are the kind of people who lose their minds if you say cops in America often specifically target black people.

I'm actually happy that I finally know they're not the kind of people who will ever really accept me no matter what. It means I can ignore them unless maybe I want to ask them for help finding jobs.

Re: Racism

Posted: 2020-05-09, 17:35
by Gormur
I don't identify as white. Please don't hate me or call me names :para: :hmm:

Racism is mind control. Plain and simple. There's no reason for it. It's not based on anything scientific

Did I miss anything? :hmm:

That's why I don't identify as American. All these people know what racism is but I don't. I've met skinheads and I still don't get it. It's all brainwashing

Re: Racism

Posted: 2020-05-09, 17:56
by linguoboy
Gormur wrote:It has no meaning to me because I don't understand what it means. To be a citizen of a country just looks like a political map in my eyes

All this means is that you take the benefits of citizenship--access to jobs, education, medical care, police protection, etc.--for granted. Listen to the stories of those without that kind of access--like refugees, undocumented workers, those who have been stripped of their citizenship, etc.--and you'll soon learn the value of it.

Gormur wrote:I don't identify as white. Please don't hate me or call me names

"White" is not a slur. I'm white myself. I don't hate white people and I don't call anyone "white" out of hate. But if you prefer, I can call you "white-passing", meaning you don't identify as white but that you appear white to others.

Gormur wrote:Racism is mind control. Plain and simple. There's no reason for it. It's not based on anything scientific

There doesn't have to be a scientific basis for something for it to have a powerful impact. That's why I brought up citizenship. There's no "scientific" basis for it; for most people, their citizenship is simply an accident of their birth. But that doesn't mean that it's effects aren't very real.

Gormur wrote:That's why I don't identify as American. All these people know what racism is but I don't. I've met skinheads and I still don't get it. It's all brainwashing

I'm seeing a theme here...

Unless you formally renounce your American citizenship, you still get the benefits of being an American citizen no matter how you "identify". It doesn't matter that it's an invented identity, with no scientific basis, that's been forced upon you without your consent. It is "real" as far as the law is concerned, and this law determines where you can go, what you can do, and whether you live or die.

Race is the same. Racists don't care how you "identify". If they perceive you as "white", they will treat you differently that those they view as "nonwhite". This is a simple observable fact about our world. You don't have to be "brainwashed" to see it. In fact, you have to be brainwashed not to see it.

That's how racism works. The beneficiaries of institutionalised racism are taught not to recognise it, so that when those who are discriminated against demand equal rights, supporters of the racism system can paint them as "spreading hate" and "demanding special rights".

Re: Racism

Posted: 2020-05-09, 18:03
by Gormur
What's the value in criminal behavior? I'm not trying to justify myself to anyone. I simply said I don't recognize racism as a real phenomenon :hmm:

Sure we can say slavery is racist but then African countries and Ireland would have racism then, and we can't have that muddying up our pristine histories, can we?

I mean, to be serious :para: :hmm:

Thanks a lot :)

Re: Racism

Posted: 2020-05-09, 18:13
by linguoboy
Gormur wrote:What's the value in criminal behavior?

I don't understand what you're asking.

Gormur wrote:Sure we can say slavery is racist but then African countries and Ireland would have racism then, and we can't have that muddying up our pristine histories, can we?

Slavery isn't inherently racist. Old World slavery generally wasn't, because people of any race could be enslaved and slavery wasn't always a condition that could be passed on from parent to child. New World slavery was racist because only particular races were enslaved and their children were born into it.

History is complicated, but this is pretty straightforward. Anyone who tells you the Irish came here as "slaves" is lying.