Racism

[vijayjohn]

This is random, but I'm just going to point out that in this country, Islamophobic and racist rhetoric is precisely what has brought about the current political situation. I'm also going to point out that it threatens the lives of South Asians like my family and myself and has already killed several South Asians.

[linguoboy]

Discussion question for the non-POC here: When did you first realise you were "white"?

For me, I think it was when I was 6 or 7 years old. We had just recently moved to an inner-ring suburb of St Louis, from a rural county in Maryland (which to this day is still over 90% non-Hispanic white in population). I have this memory of seeing a child walk down the street and realising not only that he didn't go to my school but that he couldn't possibly go to my school because he didn't look like any of the children who did. (The population of that suburb was at least an eighth Black at the time, but residentially highly segregated and I went to a private parochial school.)

At the time, the only Black person I knew personally was my great-grandmother's nurse. She was very friendly, but I knew there was something unusual about her status. She was the only person at family gatherings who wasn't family and who--something told me--couldn't be family. (It would be many more years before I would see a working Black person in a position of independent authority instead of being obviously subordinate to a white person.)

[razlem]

When did you first realise you were "white"?

It was second grade, I was maybe 10 or so? The first black student came to our class. I was in accelerated classes so it was always a tight-knit group. Obviously being in Louisiana black people were pretty integrated, so it's not like I had never seen a black person before, and we all treated her like a friend like everyone else. It wasn't until we had a lecture on the Confederacy that I thought about race. Near where we lived there was this house that had confederate flags draped everywhere on the property, and a 50 foot flag pole with a confederate flag hanging. The worst thing is that it was near a busy road and almost everyone coming to school drove past it.

I think I knew what it was, but I didn't really know what it represented until that lecture. And the black girl told us that her mom told her to cover her eyes every time they drove past it. And her experience telling us that made me realize the different lives and experiences black people faced in the area. It made me aware that I had a privilege she didn't, and that people wanted to antagonize her just because of her skin color.

[Prowler]

Discussion question for the non-POC here: When did you first realise you were "white"?

For me, I think it was when I was 6 or 7 years old. We had just recently moved to an inner-ring suburb of St Louis, from a rural county in Maryland (which to this day is still over 90% non-Hispanic white in population). I have this memory of seeing a child walk down the street and realising not only that he didn't go to my school but that he couldn't possibly go to my school because he didn't look like any of the children who did. (The population of that suburb was at least an eighth Black at the time, but residentially highly segregated and I went to a private parochial school.)

At the time, the only Black person I knew personally was my great-grandmother's nurse. She was very friendly, but I knew there was something unusual about her status. She was the only person at family gatherings who wasn't family and who--something told me--couldn't be family. (It would be many more years before I would see a working Black person in a position of independent authority instead of being obviously subordinate to a white person.)

No idea. Don't think there was such a moment in my life, but my mother told me that there was this one time when i was about 2 years old or so and pointed at a black woman and asked my mother "why is that lady so dirty?". No idea if this applies to the question you've asked. Seems to be more of an American society fitting question, I guess.

[linguoboy]

No idea. Don't think there was such a moment in my life, but my mother told me that there was this one time when i was about 2 years old or so and pointed at a black woman and asked my mother "why is that lady so dirty?". No idea if this applies to the question you've asked. Seems to be more of an American society fitting question, I guess.

The implications are different in American society than they are elsewhere, but anti-Blackness is universal. At some point, we all come to realise that there is a racial hierarchy in this world and those with the darkest skin are on the bottom of it.

What you describe seems to be a realisation that Black people exist and not so much a realisation of what it means to be Black (and, consequently, how that is different from being white like you).

[vijayjohn]

At some point, we all come to realise that there is a racial hierarchy in this world

If that's true, then I get the impression a lot of people on this forum never have come to such a realization.

[linguoboy]

At some point, we all come to realise that there is a racial hierarchy in this world

If that's true, then I get the impression a lot of people on this forum never have come to such a realization.

I think some people are in denial about how pervasive and intense that hierarchy is, but I don't think anyone seriously disputes that it exists.

[Prowler]

No idea. Don't think there was such a moment in my life, but my mother told me that there was this one time when i was about 2 years old or so and pointed at a black woman and asked my mother "why is that lady so dirty?". No idea if this applies to the question you've asked. Seems to be more of an American society fitting question, I guess.

The implications are different in American society than they are elsewhere, but anti-Blackness is universal. At some point, we all come to realise that there is a racial hierarchy in this world and those with the darkest skin are on the bottom of it.

What you describe seems to be a realisation that Black people exist and not so much a realisation of what it means to be Black (and, consequently, how that is different from being white like you).

Yes, Black peopke have the worst stereotypes. I think Gypsies get it worse than them though. Arabs(well Muslims in general) get a lot of flack too.

Well obviously me and most don't know that. It's impossible to walk a mile in someone else's shoes like that.

Funny enough lots of whites want to get nice tans. Granted it's temporary... but if you work outdoors most of your life then you will be more often tanned or sunburnt than not. It's funny how before people avoided tanning because having darker skin implied being of lower class.

At some point, we all come to realise that there is a racial hierarchy in this world

If that's true, then I get the impression a lot of people on this forum never have come to such a realization.

I think some people are in denial about how pervasive and intense that hierarchy is, but I don't think anyone seriously disputes that it exists.

Dunno. This forum seems to primarily skew left and has a lot of discussions about minority rights and discrimination it seems.

[vijayjohn]

I think Gypsies get it worse than them though.

Honestly, I think this may be true even in the US, in a way. At least people know that black people exist here.

[linguoboy]

I think Gypsies get it worse than them though.

Honestly, I think this may be true even in the US, in a way. At least people know that black people exist here.

Also, there's a general consensus (at least among leftists and liberals) that stereotypes about Black people are false and therefore they've done nothing to merit the discrimination they suffer. I'm not sure there's the same consensus when it comes to Sinti and Roma.

[vijayjohn]

I don't think there is. I remember footage (from a documentary filmed in 2000 called American Gypsy) of a reporter asking Jimmy Marks on air, point blank, right in front of him, whether he had put a hex on Spokane.

[Prowler]

Shooting in a Synagogue today:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/27/us/a ... oting.html

[mōdgethanc]

Discussion question for the non-POC here: When did you first realise you were "white"?

For me, I think it was when I was 6 or 7 years old. We had just recently moved to an inner-ring suburb of St Louis, from a rural county in Maryland (which to this day is still over 90% non-Hispanic white in population). I have this memory of seeing a child walk down the street and realising not only that he didn't go to my school but that he couldn't possibly go to my school because he didn't look like any of the children who did. (The population of that suburb was at least an eighth Black at the time, but residentially highly segregated and I went to a private parochial school.)

Growing up in a super-white town where racism was (and is) common, I was about the same age, maybe in kindergarten or grade 1. I was at school and bumped into a black girl a few years older than me (as in, literally walked into her because I wasn't paying attention). I was so shocked that a person could be so dark that I forgot to apologize for a second until a teacher reminded me to. I had never seen a person of colour before in real life and I'm sure next to none in the media as well, let alone a very dark-skinned black person.

Around the same time, I remember one class where the teacher was discussing the appearance of Jesus and mentioned the belief that he may have been "black" and being confused by what that meant. That may have been the first time I realized that non-white people existed, except for maybe Asians. If there were any at my school, I don't remember them.

[Prowler]

Discussion question for the non-POC here: When did you first realise you were "white"?

For me, I think it was when I was 6 or 7 years old. We had just recently moved to an inner-ring suburb of St Louis, from a rural county in Maryland (which to this day is still over 90% non-Hispanic white in population). I have this memory of seeing a child walk down the street and realising not only that he didn't go to my school but that he couldn't possibly go to my school because he didn't look like any of the children who did. (The population of that suburb was at least an eighth Black at the time, but residentially highly segregated and I went to a private parochial school.)

Growing up in a super-white town where racism was (and is) common, I was about the same age, maybe in kindergarten or grade 1. I was at school and bumped into a black girl a few years older than me (as in, literally walked into her because I wasn't paying attention). I was so shocked that a person could be so dark that I forgot to apologize for a second until a teacher reminded me to. I had never seen a person of colour before in real life and I'm sure next to none in the media as well, let alone a very dark-skinned black person.

Around the same time, I remember one class where the teacher was discussing the appearance of Jesus and mentioned the belief that he may have been "black" and being confused by what that meant. That may have been the first time I realized that non-white people existed, except for maybe Asians. If there were any at my school, I don't remember them.

Jesus does often get portrayed as having light brown hair and blue eyes. Granted there's people in the Middle East that bear such physical traits, but I suppose it's hard to know what Jesus looked like exactly. Perhaps some Black Christians view him as Black and some Asian Christians view him as Asian(inb4theypraytokoreanjesusjoke)? Also, when it comes to portraits of people from the past, they're not always very accurate nor are they always meant to portray those people as they exactly looked or were described to actually look like.

If I had to guess, I'd say Jesus probably had dark hair and eyes and perhaps had either pale or oliveish or tanned skin. I've always viewed him as being of "Middle Eastern stock", so to speak. I've never read the bible or anything, so I have no diea if there are biblical descriptions of what Jesus looked like physically.

[vijayjohn]

I've never read the bible or anything, so I have no diea if there are biblical descriptions of what Jesus looked like physically.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus:

The New Testament gives no description of the physical appearance of Jesus before his death—it is generally indifferent to racial appearances and does not refer to the features of the people it mentions.

[Naava]

Since you're talking about it...

[a screenshot behind the spoiler]

► Show Spoiler

[mōdgethanc]

Jesus does often get portrayed as having light brown hair and blue eyes. Granted there's people in the Middle East that bear such physical traits, but I suppose it's hard to know what Jesus looked like exactly. Perhaps some Black Christians view him as Black and some Asian Christians view him as Asian(inb4theypraytokoreanjesusjoke)? Also, when it comes to portraits of people from the past, they're not always very accurate nor are they always meant to portray those people as they exactly looked or were described to actually look like.

If I had to guess, I'd say Jesus probably had dark hair and eyes and perhaps had either pale or oliveish or tanned skin. I've always viewed him as being of "Middle Eastern stock", so to speak. I've never read the bible or anything, so I have no diea if there are biblical descriptions of what Jesus looked like physically.

Experts now agree that Jesus very likely was olive-skinned and dark-haired but he has been portrayed as black or Asian before. In European culture, he was also often portrayed as a pale redhead, based on Jews stereotypically having red hair (which seems very odd to me since that's not a thing today).

[vijayjohn]

I found something about that here. Apparently, there are some interpretations of the Bible that suggest that Esau and David had red hair, though that wasn't necessarily the case.

[Prowler]

Jesus does often get portrayed as having light brown hair and blue eyes. Granted there's people in the Middle East that bear such physical traits, but I suppose it's hard to know what Jesus looked like exactly. Perhaps some Black Christians view him as Black and some Asian Christians view him as Asian(inb4theypraytokoreanjesusjoke)? Also, when it comes to portraits of people from the past, they're not always very accurate nor are they always meant to portray those people as they exactly looked or were described to actually look like.

If I had to guess, I'd say Jesus probably had dark hair and eyes and perhaps had either pale or oliveish or tanned skin. I've always viewed him as being of "Middle Eastern stock", so to speak. I've never read the bible or anything, so I have no diea if there are biblical descriptions of what Jesus looked like physically.

Experts now agree that Jesus very likely was olive-skinned and dark-haired but he has been portrayed as black or Asian before. In European culture, he was also often portrayed as a pale redhead, based on Jews stereotypically having red hair (which seems very odd to me since that's not a thing today).

I've never heard that stereotype. Plus. Judaism is a religion, so they obviously can look like anything. I can't look at a person and tell if they're Jewish just by the look of their faces.

Redheads? That's a stereotype of Irish and Scottish people afaik.

[vijayjohn]

I've never heard that stereotype.

I hadn't, either (who would nowadays?), but it apparently used to exist.

Plus. Judaism is a religion, so they obviously can look like anything.

Well, they can look like a lot of things, but they're also an ethnicity, and I'm not sure they can look like anything. I'm not finding myself terribly convinced, for example, that Melanesians or these people were ever Jewish until perhaps some of them were converted to Judaism in recent years.

I can't look at a person and tell if they're Jewish just by the look of their faces.

I don't think I can tell whether people are just about anything from looking at their faces. Would you ever guess this guy was Indian?

Would you guess this girl was Chinese?