Racism

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linguoboy
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Re: Racism

Postby linguoboy » 2020-07-10, 15:45

Gormur wrote:
linguoboy wrote:
Gormur wrote:I'm not a racist. That makes sense to me. Racism needs a motive in order to be active. To me, that means it doesn't exist; by itself

The motive is clear: to achieve and maintain power. What clearer motive could you wish for?
But what's the actual motive? I'm not saying motive as in the reason, but the motive as in the basis for racism, like its foundation

That's too bad, because "reason" is what "motive" actually means in this context. Maybe if you used words in the same way as the rest of us, these discussions would be a little more productive.

I feel like I've explained all this before: the motive is control. Dividing a population along racial lines makes it possible for one group to dominate the others and monopolise opportunities and resources.

Look at the history of the USA: What effect did defining a "White" race have? It allowed members of that particular group to completely dominate politics, keeping all opportunities for themselves. They appropriated land from the "Red" race and labour from members of the "Black" race. They reaped all the benefits of controlling these resources, making them far richer than they would have been from their efforts alone.

Gormur wrote:How does racism affect others who aren't racist? How does one get outsiders to support racism even if they aren't racist?

First of all, if you support racism, you're "racist". Again, that's literally what the word means. It doesn't matter what your underlying reasons are.

Second, I've just explained this: Everyone classed as "White" benefits in a system that's built to allow Whites to dominate political power and resources. Are you asking why non-Whites would go along with this? They're not given a choice. Slavery was maintained through continual terrorisation and violence. Indigenous people were deprived of land through wars, forced removal, starvation, and disease. Asians were kept out by exclusionary laws. All of these groups faced severe restrictions on their independent economic and political activity. When they did manage to accumulate some wealth and political power in spite of these restrictions, it was taken from them again by force.

And this still happens. Prison labour is slavery by a different name. Native Americans are still fighting for control of the lands guaranteed to them by treaty. Non-whites face restrictions on their participation in society that white people don't.
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

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Gormur
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Re: Racism

Postby Gormur » 2020-07-10, 19:38

linguoboy wrote:First of all, if you support racism, you're "racist". Again, that's literally what the word means. It doesn't matter what your underlying reasons are.
Thanks for explaining that. I didn't learn this at school :)

Sorry about my wording. I was trying to say that racism had to come out in acts of aggression in order to be racist. My point was that race and racism exist for those who participate in them. On their own they wouldn't exist

That's probably just my theory though so feel free to disregard it. I wanted to know where racism came from but I think I understand it better now
Eigi gegnir þat at segja at bók nøkkur er hreinferðug eðr ønnur spelluð því at vandliga ok dáliga eru bœkr ritnar ok annat kunnum vér eigi um þœr at dœma

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linguoboy
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Re: Racism

Postby linguoboy » 2020-07-10, 19:58

Gormur wrote:Sorry about my wording. I was trying to say that racism had to come out in acts of aggression in order to be racist. My point was that race and racism exist for those who participate in them. On their own they wouldn't exist

I don't agree with that. As societies mature, violent acts become rarer overall, and individual acts of racial aggression become the exception--which is one reason why they get so much attention. But many of the most damaging and persistent forms of racism are things like redliningand employment discrimination, which aren't the least bit violent.
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

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Gormur
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Re: Racism

Postby Gormur » 2020-07-15, 23:50

linguoboy wrote:
Gormur wrote:Sorry about my wording. I was trying to say that racism had to come out in acts of aggression in order to be racist. My point was that race and racism exist for those who participate in them. On their own they wouldn't exist

I don't agree with that. As societies mature, violent acts become rarer overall, and individual acts of racial aggression become the exception--which is one reason why they get so much attention. But many of the most damaging and persistent forms of racism are things like redliningand employment discrimination, which aren't the least bit violent.
I've heard an argument that says more homogeneous societies have low crime or especially low violent crime rates

I try to be mindful of what I read. Does homogeneous imply genetics, social standing or both? Things like this confuse me even though they probably shouldn't. I'm just an anal person :)
Eigi gegnir þat at segja at bók nøkkur er hreinferðug eðr ønnur spelluð því at vandliga ok dáliga eru bœkr ritnar ok annat kunnum vér eigi um þœr at dœma

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linguoboy
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Re: Racism

Postby linguoboy » 2020-07-16, 19:18

Gormur wrote:I've heard an argument that says more homogeneous societies have low crime or especially low violent crime rates

I try to be mindful of what I read. Does homogeneous imply genetics, social standing or both?

It depends who's making the argument. People usually state up front what kind of diversity they're focussing on--ethnic, economic, religious, etc.

We've known at least since Becker's groundbreaking work in the 60s that greater local income inequality leads to to greater crime (both violent and otherwise). As for genetics, it's complicated by the fact that more ethnically homogeneous countries tend to have less income inequality as well. So, for instance, the Nordic countries tend to have low ethnic diversity, low income inequality, and low crime. So working out the causality is bound to be tricky.
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

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liljorna
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Re: Racism

Postby liljorna » 2020-07-23, 9:11

i don't get racism. i mean, i know what it is and i can see that it exist, but i really don't understand why anyone would hate, insult or exclude someone just because they have a different skin color or a different religion or come from a different country. my natural reaction to people from other cultures is curiosity rather than fear or hatred: i want to learn about their languages, beliefs and traditions. in that process, i might find that there are things i don't like or agree with, but that also happens with people from my own country.
i've been teaching german to refugees, mainly from african and middle eastern countries, since 2015, and i must say that i've learned a lot, both about their cultures and about some of my fellow germans' opinions about and behavior towards them...

i agree with what has been said about income equality. social class and the level of education are certainly more closely linked to crime rates than ethnicity is. the sad thing is that if we treat foreigners the way we often treat them, that is if we don't give them the chance to work and earn their own money, to find a good place to live, to make (german) friends, to learn about the local culture etc., they are bound to end up on the bottom of the social hierarchy, and some of them will indeed become criminals. in the end, right-wing politicians will point their fingers at them and be like "see! we told you so! we shouldn't even have let them come here!" a self-fulfilling prophecy. :(
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Gormur
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Re: Racism

Postby Gormur » 2020-07-30, 12:03

Eigi gegnir þat at segja at bók nøkkur er hreinferðug eðr ønnur spelluð því at vandliga ok dáliga eru bœkr ritnar ok annat kunnum vér eigi um þœr at dœma


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