Perils of Perception

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linguoboy
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Perils of Perception

Postby linguoboy » 2014-11-20, 14:09

The UK polling firm Ipsos-MORI recently released the results of a 14-country poll of "the basic make-up of their populations and the scale of key social issues". It's getting some coverage in the USA because, for once, we came out only the second-most ignorant country surveyed. (Brava, Italia!)

If you want to try answering some of the questions yourself before reviewing the results, go here: https://www.ipsos-mori.com/_assets/perceptionsquiz/index.html. I ended up being only as ignorant as the average Spaniard, so hurra por mí! (Ironically, I then took the quiz for Spain and scored almost twice as well. USAmericans take note: the fieldwork was done in August so when they say "the last election", they mean 2012 and not the ones we just had.)
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Re: Perils of Perception

Postby Johanna » 2014-11-20, 16:02

I started on the Swedish version and the first question is like WTF!? It's about what percentage of the population are Christian, and it's definitely not as many as either of the three choices you get, not if you ask them if they believe in the Father, the Son and the Holy spirit, and if Jesus is the road to salvation, which is kind of a minimum in my book.

Edit: But sure, there are a lot that identify as Christian out of plain old habit, but non-religious ones or something.
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Re: Perils of Perception

Postby Car » 2014-11-20, 16:30

6/9, similar to Spain, Great Britain and Australia. I had the same first question as Johanna and I agree with her. Another question was about the percentage of immigrants. The answer depends on what you mean with immigrants here. I think that's the reason why people overestimate it: They don't include people born abroad only.
Please correct my mistakes!

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Re: Perils of Perception

Postby Marah » 2014-11-20, 20:25

Johanna wrote:I started on the Swedish version and the first question is like WTF!? It's about what percentage of the population are Christian, and it's definitely not as many as either of the three choices you get, not if you ask them if they believe in the Father, the Son and the Holy spirit, and if Jesus is the road to salvation, which is kind of a minimum in my book.

Edit: But sure, there are a lot that identify as Christian out of plain old habit, but non-religious ones or something.

Same for France.
I got 6/9. :?

Car wrote: Another question was about the percentage of immigrants. The answer depends on what you mean with immigrants here. I think that's the reason why people overestimate it: They don't include people born abroad only.

That's also true. But I knew they meant the very strict definition of immigrant.
Par exemple, l'enfant croit au Père Noël. L'adulte non. L'adulte ne croit pas au Père Noël. Il vote.

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Re: Perils of Perception

Postby Car » 2014-11-22, 9:20

Marah wrote:
Car wrote: Another question was about the percentage of immigrants. The answer depends on what you mean with immigrants here. I think that's the reason why people overestimate it: They don't include people born abroad only.

That's also true. But I knew they meant the very strict definition of immigrant.

That's usually not the kind of stats that are used in the media in Germany, though (maybe elsewhere as well?), so it's only natural if people have higher pecentages in mind.
Please correct my mistakes!

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Re: Perils of Perception

Postby Prowler » 2014-12-14, 9:12

Was bored, so...


USA - 5/9

Spain, Great Britain and Australia


Sweden - 3/9

USA, Italy and Poland


Germany - 5/9

Spain, Great Britain and Australia


Japan - 7/9

Sweden, Germany and Japan


Spain - 3/9

USA, Italy and Poland


Great Britain - 4/9

Spain, Great Britain and Australia


Australia - 7/9

Sweden, Germany and Japan


Belgium - 8/9

Sweden, Germany and Japan


Canada - 8/9

Sweden, Germany and Japan


France - 8/9

Sweden, Germany and Japan


Hungary - 5/9

Spain, Great Britain and Australia


Poland - 8/9

Sweden, Germany and Japan


South Korea - 9/9

Sweden, Germany and Japan


Italy - 8/9

Sweden, Germany and Japan


...why are the same countries always grouped together when it comes to scores for each country? Weird.

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Re: Perils of Perception

Postby Johanna » 2014-12-14, 14:07

Prowler wrote:...why are the same countries always grouped together when it comes to scores for each country? Weird.

From my understanding, that's because they only asked people about their own country in the actual survey.
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Re: Perils of Perception

Postby Itikar » 2014-12-14, 14:22

Unemployment at 12% in Italy! :rotfl:
Oh, wait, that's what the government says... :roll:
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Re: Perils of Perception

Postby IpseDixit » 2014-12-14, 15:17

Itikar wrote:Unemployment at 12% in Italy! :rotfl:
Oh, wait, that's what the government says... :roll:


It's not the gov't. It's ISTAT and Eurobaromenter which say that. It's all about how you define unemployment.

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Re: Perils of Perception

Postby Itikar » 2014-12-14, 15:23

The management of ISTAT is deeply involved with government officials. Regardless, they are all lying, since the unemployment figure controversy is very well known by everyone. Even reading the figures they give one can easily understand that the real value is, at least, double.
Fletto i muscoli e sono nel vuoto!
All corrections are welcome and appreciated.

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Re: Perils of Perception

Postby IpseDixit » 2014-12-14, 15:32

Itikar wrote:The management of ISTAT is deeply involved with government officials. Regardless, they are all lying, since the unemployment figure controversy is very well known by everyone. Even reading the figures they give one can easily understand that the real value is, at least, double.


Sources?

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Itikar
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Re: Perils of Perception

Postby Itikar » 2014-12-14, 16:03

Open Google, type "disoccupazione reale italia" and enjoy plenty of them.
Fletto i muscoli e sono nel vuoto!
All corrections are welcome and appreciated.

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Re: Perils of Perception

Postby IpseDixit » 2014-12-14, 16:51

Itikar wrote:Open Google, type "disoccupazione reale italia" and enjoy plenty of them.


I've found a a lot of articles and all of them give different numbers...

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Re: Perils of Perception

Postby Itikar » 2014-12-14, 17:20

Obviously. At least the double.
Fletto i muscoli e sono nel vuoto!
All corrections are welcome and appreciated.

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Re: Perils of Perception

Postby IpseDixit » 2014-12-14, 20:22

Itikar wrote:At least the double.


Not necessarily.

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Re: Perils of Perception

Postby Itikar » 2014-12-14, 21:13

In almost all the articles there is written that the figure of 12% includes only the unemployed people who have looked for work in the month preceding the survey. There is in fact an amount of people of almost the same size who have not done this, but they are classified as "discouraged" and not as "unemployed". The sum of the two categories is well over 20%.
Therefore, given the definition of these "discouraged" people, I find hard to understand how the real unemployment is not, necessarily, at least the double.
Fletto i muscoli e sono nel vuoto!
All corrections are welcome and appreciated.

IpseDixit

Re: Perils of Perception

Postby IpseDixit » 2014-12-14, 21:41

Some articles say it's 17%, but anyways that wasn't my point, I was just a bit baffled by "the government is lying" part, not that I like this gov't (quite the contrary) and not that I think they wouldn't be able to lie, but in this case, as I said, it's just a matter of definition of unemployment (a definition which was not decided by any Italian gov'ts and which is actually adopted worldwide).

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Re: Perils of Perception

Postby Levike » 2014-12-14, 21:54

I've got 5/9 for Hungary.

Spain, Great Britain, Australia.

Seemingly things are better than what I expect them to be.
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Re: Perils of Perception

Postby Johanna » 2014-12-14, 21:57

In Sweden, lots of things that isn't 'really' unemployment is often counted as if it were; students looking for jobs to get some extra money, and people with part-time jobs that support them but who want more hours for example.
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Re: Perils of Perception

Postby Itikar » 2014-12-14, 22:12

IpseDixit wrote:Some articles say it's 17%, but anyways that wasn't my point, I was just a bit baffled by "the government is lying" part, not that I like this gov't (quite the contrary) and not that I think they wouldn't be able to lie, but in this case, as I said, it's just a matter of definition of unemployment (a definition which was not decided by any Italian gov'ts and which is actually adopted worldwide).
In my search the only articles giving figures lower than 20% had been published in 2012.

I am not an expert on these things, and I certainly can be wrong, but what I have read so far and, more importantly, comparison with the figures of other European countries, makes me quite diffident about that figure, as well as several others.
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