Bombs in Gaza, riots in France

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linguoboy
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Re: Bombs in Gaza, riots in France

Postby linguoboy » 2014-07-29, 3:36

mōdgethanc wrote:On the whole I would agree, but in this case I'm pretty confident in saying their current approach hasn't worked out all that well for them.

I'd really like to hear what hypothetical better scenarios you're contrasting the current situation to in order to arrive at that judgment.
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Re: Bombs in Gaza, riots in France

Postby mōdgethanc » 2014-07-29, 3:38

Perhaps one in which violence isn't a strategy.

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Re: Bombs in Gaza, riots in France

Postby linguoboy » 2014-07-29, 3:43

mōdgethanc wrote:Perhaps one in which violence isn't a strategy.

Go on.

*crickets chirping*
Last edited by linguoboy on 2014-07-29, 18:07, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bombs in Gaza, riots in France

Postby Lietmotiv » 2014-07-29, 6:07

What we see in the European cities? A huge amount of anti-semitic people (most of them muslims) who try to convince everybody that "Jews have to be killed" and so on. It's even funny sometimes to hear from muslim immigrants "Juden raus aus Deutschland!" (Jews, out from Germany)

For those who understand German - http://www.welt.de/debatte/kommentare/a ... uchen.html (It's about the antisemitism of Arabs and Turks in Germany. This is hard to accept in the 21st century in Europe.)

Now some of you will tell me that it's right, that these guys are right when they hate a nation, a country, when they want to see dead Israeli children and bombed Israeli towns.

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Re: Bombs in Gaza, riots in France

Postby md0 » 2014-07-29, 8:17

A giant strawman to be paraded in the roads of Berlin.
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Re: Bombs in Gaza, riots in France

Postby linguoboy » 2014-07-29, 12:06

meidei wrote:A giant strawman to be paraded in the roads of Berlin.

But meidei! They are lynching Negroes!

At this point, I could mention how peace protestors in Tel Aviv and Haifa have been met by crowds chanting "Death to Arabs, death to leftists" and "Tomorrow there's no school in Gaza, they don't have any children left", but what purpose would that serve?
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Re: Bombs in Gaza, riots in France

Postby md0 » 2014-07-29, 14:57

Oh shut up linguoboy, we know that you want to see all Israelis die.
Now some of you will tell me that it's right, that these guys are right when they hate a nation, a country, when they want to see dead Israeli children and bombed Israeli towns.
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Re: Bombs in Gaza, riots in France

Postby linguoboy » 2014-07-29, 15:09

meidei wrote:Oh shut up linguoboy, we know that you want to see all Israelis die.

Preferably from a hilltop. In a chaise longue, with a cocktail and a platter of meze at my side. You know, like a civilised person.
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Re: Bombs in Gaza, riots in France

Postby md0 » 2014-07-29, 15:29

Preferably from a hilltop

So, Golan Heights?
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Re: Bombs in Gaza, riots in France

Postby linguoboy » 2014-07-29, 15:32

meidei wrote:
Preferably from a hilltop

So, Golan Heights?

Tel Meggido.
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Re: Bombs in Gaza, riots in France

Postby md0 » 2014-07-29, 15:35

That spot's reserved. You don't wanna mess with that guy.
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Re: Bombs in Gaza, riots in France

Postby Saim » 2014-07-29, 15:42

Mikey93 wrote:That is actually far from truth. It’s exactly haredim/ultraorthodox Jews who are against the existence of Israel. For them only the true messiah should gather the exiles in the Holy Land (therefore they refuse to abide by its laws). Same with the Zionists. Zionism is not synonymous with imperialism. Zionism goal per se is developing the state of Israel and not enlarging its borders and occupying Palestine territories. I don't doubt there are chauvinists in Israel as in every country, but these are just unfounded conjectures. Anyway, I wonder where you’ve got that information from.


Sorry, you're right, I mispoke. I was thinking about the national-religious types (messianic-style Zionism), not ultra-Orthodoxy. As far as your caveat regarding my use of the term Zionist, that's precisely why I talked about Zionist hardliners.

but it also should be noted that Israel, a tiny country comparing to its neighbours countries, received FAR greater number of refugees from Europe and Arab states, and made them equal citizens despite the great cultural and language barrier


Good on them. When are they going to make Arabs in the West Bank and Gaza equal citizens?

(Palestinians have equal rights in Israel as well!!).


That's not what the Palestinians themselves seem to think, but I guess according to your above comment none of them are "educated human beings". It's also pretty clear that these alleged "equal rights" are only applied to a subset of Palestinians, i.e. those with Israeli citizenship. Those in the Bantustans don't have as much luck.

Whereas the Palestinians who fled to neighbouring Arab countries were (are) kept in internment camps and never became equal, even after 2 or 3 generations. And why? To keep their national consciousness strong enough and to ensure future fedayeen actions.


I wonder where you got the impression that I'm some huge fan of authoritarian Arab states from. Is there any Zionist argument that isn't some kind of expression of tu quoque?

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Re: Bombs in Gaza, riots in France

Postby IpseDixit » 2014-07-29, 21:16

I have to say that I'm quite surprised at the number of Israeli casualties though. Yes, they're a much smaller number than that of the Palestinians and most of them are not civilians, but how the fuck did the 4th most powerful army in the world manage to lose almost 50 soldiers against an armyless nation that the "best" it can do is probably guerilla warfare.

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Re: Bombs in Gaza, riots in France

Postby Lietmotiv » 2014-07-30, 7:56

As I said, in Germany Muslim violence against Jewish people continues - 3 young men (presumably Muslims) threw Molotov cocktails in the Synagogue http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/inla ... 69996.html

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Re: Bombs in Gaza, riots in France

Postby md0 » 2014-07-30, 9:04

And you're somehow convinced we must be okay with that because?
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Re: Bombs in Gaza, riots in France

Postby linguoboy » 2014-07-30, 13:09

Saim wrote:Is there any Zionist argument that isn't some kind of expression of tu quoque?

Not so far, it seems.

meidei wrote:And you're somehow convinced we must be okay with that because?

Actually, this is a principle I should consider supporting. If it's okay to slaughter people in one part of the world because people in a totally different part of the world are calling you names and vandalising your buildings, then the USA is off the hook for pretty much all of its foreign policy for the past half century or more.
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Re: Bombs in Gaza, riots in France

Postby md0 » 2014-07-30, 14:30

Actually I'm a bit surprised the US haven't been using that justification more often.
The US government resorts to pathetic excuses like "I know a guy who knows a guy who says he heard that bearded man in Iraq talking about weapons of mass destruction or something".
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Re: Bombs in Gaza, riots in France

Postby md0 » 2014-07-30, 14:38

IpseDixit wrote:I have to say that I'm quite surprised at the number of Israeli casualties though. Yes, they're a much smaller number than that of the Palestinians and most of them are not civilians, but how the fuck did the 4th most powerful army in the world manage to lose almost 50 soldiers against an armyless nation that the "best" it can do is probably guerilla warfare.

I haven't read much on that, but I have that horrible feeling that 50 soldiers are fresh conscripts, which are probably an easy target for guerilla fighters and less of a loss for the army.

When I was conscripted, one of the first things they told us is that if war breaks out when we are still in training, we are the ones who are sent first and it doesn't matter that our training isn't yet complete, they just want us to buy them some time.
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Re: Bombs in Gaza, riots in France

Postby IpseDixit » 2014-07-30, 14:44

meidei wrote:When I was conscripted, one of the first things they told us is that if war breaks out when we are still in training, we are the ones who are sent first and it doesn't matter that our training isn't yet complete, they just want us to buy them some time.


Wow, not exactly a thing I would've liked hearing if I had served in the army :lol:

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Re: Bombs in Gaza, riots in France

Postby md0 » 2014-07-30, 14:58

I did appreciate the honestly. I'd be pissed off if we went there and they told us we could actually survive and defeat the opposing army because every single Cypriot knows that's not true.
Nope, you go there, they tell you "we send you to delay the invasion and we just hope some foreign power intervenes before it's too late because there's nothing else we can do". [Back in 1974, the power that was supposed to intervene, didn't]
So the question there is, why keep an army you admit is useless? The answer is a number, and it's followed by the symbol .
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