[Split] Sexism

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Varislintu
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Re: Random complaints and advice thread 3

Postby Varislintu » 2014-01-27, 1:03

Sol Invictus wrote:The other day I read an interview with some random psychiatrist who claimed that too many women in government would cause stagnation, because most women have PMS, which makes them angry, guys solve everything faster and obviously the females only get into politics, because their husbands tell them what to do :evil: BTW our society usually pays so little attention to gender that it was hardly even discussed that the new prime minister is the first female in that post


Great. :P I recently read some Finnish sports guy say that ski jumping is not a sport girls should be encouraged to take up. Bizarrely, it had something to do with the amount of equipment you need (apparently equipment is not a problem for children with a penis). I also read some man say that women should stop demanding better female characters in computer games, because we smell better and live longer. Because apparently male computer game characters are all that men have left in their scales cup? :?
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Re: Random complaints and advice thread 3

Postby Bijlee » 2014-01-27, 1:05

^^^^
I would think it'd be fair for someone suspect sexism when a guy constantly does that thing where they practically jump in front of you and rush to the door to open it first. I was under the impression that that's what women get upset about with the whole door opening thing- the guys who will go out of their way to make sure that you don't do it yourself and who will pull out chairs for you and open the car door and all that.

Men and women around here will usually hold the door open for people if they're already at it and see someone else coming.

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Re: Random complaints and advice thread 3

Postby IpseDixit » 2014-01-27, 1:09

I would think it'd be fair for someone suspect sexism when a guy constantly does that thing where they practically jump in front of you and rush to the door to open it first.


I'd agree with you in that case, but that's not the scenario I actually had in my mind...

Men and women around here will usually hold the door open for people if they're already at it and see someone else coming.


Me personally I was talking about that :lol:
Last edited by IpseDixit on 2014-01-27, 1:12, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Random complaints and advice thread 3

Postby johntm » 2014-01-27, 1:10

Varislintu wrote:Thing is, it's in the nature of emotional outbursts to not be well thought through. If they had been in control, or alternatively thought about it logically, they would probably not have snapped.

Exactly, said outburst is based on something illogical. Why should I try to empathize with someone who will go on an outburst that isn't even in the least bit warranted?
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Re: Random complaints and advice thread 3

Postby Yasna » 2014-01-27, 1:10

Varislintu wrote:The point in my opinion is that someone who is upset enough to call a stranger a pig will have interpreted just as much hurtful ignorance into that door gesture. Would it be nicer if they realized not everyone holds the door only for women? Yes. But from their point of view, their reaction has a point, does it not?

Sure it has a point/reason behind it. I just think that on the scale of how much a given action justifies an aggressive reaction in response, holding the door open for someone fares very poorly.
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Re: Random complaints and advice thread 3

Postby Varislintu » 2014-01-27, 1:12

IpseDixit wrote:Moreover, as john says, where does this thing end exactly? Should we arrive at the point where men are afraid of helping women in any way?


There are no easy answers to this. This (and similar issues) will be the issue of our cultural generation. The wounds of sexism are still raw, and women may be prickly about it. Men of this time are destined to be sometimes confused and struggling to navigate between expectations.

A lot of Finnish gender studies focuses on men because men are the ones whose role is changing really drastically now, and who are also in danger of suffering from it on a social level.
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Re: Random complaints and advice thread 3

Postby Bijlee » 2014-01-27, 1:14

IpseDixit wrote:I'd agree with you in that case, but that's not what I actually had in my mind...

But I mean, I think that's what the women who are complaining about this have in mind.

Edit: That was a weird way to phrase it. I mean I think that's the kind of behavior those women are complaining about- or else wrongly think that the men who are doing it "normally" (without the obnoxious running ahead of you thing) are trying to do that. If that makes more sense...
Last edited by Bijlee on 2014-01-27, 1:17, edited 1 time in total.

IpseDixit

Re: Random complaints and advice thread 3

Postby IpseDixit » 2014-01-27, 1:15

There are no easy answers to this. This (and similar issues) will be the issue of our cultural generation. The wounds of sexism are still raw, and women may be prickly about it. Men of this time are destined to be sometimes confused and struggling to navigate between expectations.

A lot of Finnish gender studies focuses on men because men are the ones whose role is changing really drastically now, and who are also in danger of suffering from it on a social level.


Thank God I'm gay :lol:

Bijlee wrote:
IpseDixit wrote:I'd agree with you in that case, but that's not what I actually had in my mind...

But I mean, I think that's what the women who are complaining about this have in mind.


Ok, they're right then :lol:

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Re: Random complaints and advice thread 3

Postby johntm » 2014-01-27, 1:23

Varislintu wrote:Men of this time are destined to be sometimes confused and struggling to navigate between expectations.

Here's a point we can agree on. It's weird seeing this happen and I remember for the longest time a few years ago I was under the impression that girls didn't like guys to be forward (e.g. taking initiative) and whatnot in relationships and in initiating relationships. Then I discovered (from females) that they prefer a guy who takes initiative and "acts like the man (traditionally acts)". Felt like I'd been lied to, but I'm not sure where I picked those ideas up. It was one of those mind=blown moments. That compounded with the fact that I was naturally shy and reserved didn't do much for me.
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Re: Random complaints and advice thread 3

Postby Varislintu » 2014-01-27, 1:39

johntm wrote:
Varislintu wrote:Men of this time are destined to be sometimes confused and struggling to navigate between expectations.

Here's a point we can agree on. It's weird seeing this happen and I remember for the longest time a few years ago I was under the impression that girls didn't like guys to be forward (e.g. taking initiative) and whatnot in relationships and in initiating relationships. Then I discovered (from females) that they prefer a guy who takes initiative and "acts like the man (traditionally acts)". Felt like I'd been lied to, but I'm not sure where I picked those ideas up. It was one of those mind=blown moments. That compounded with the fact that I was naturally shy and reserved didn't do much for me.


Women's expectations are quite a mixed bag at the moment. I think that teenagers might be more traditional, because they are more under the influence of commercial media and advertisement, which probably underlines traditional gender roles the most (outside of religious influence). Also children's toys have never been more gender-segregated than now, or more strictly gender marketed. After early teenage, I think traditional expectations seem to persist more in women who retain a keener interest in the entertainment media. Well, that's my observation and tentative theory, not anything scientifically observed.
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Re: Random complaints and advice thread 3

Postby johntm » 2014-01-27, 1:44

Varislintu wrote:Women's expectations are quite a mixed bag at the moment. I think that teenagers might be more traditional

Keep in mind my area of the country in general is more traditional. Not that I mind (and it seems most people my age don't), but stuff is also changing a bit too.
Don't get me wrong though, I have no problem with a female making the first move, and it's actually nice at times. I'm one of those guys that's horrible at reading hints, and even when I think I may see hints I might not be sure and as such not make a move. As has happened in the past.
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Re: Random complaints and advice thread 3

Postby md0 » 2014-01-27, 7:18

It will help you to know that not all girls (or all people in general), think alike. There's not some hivemind all girls are connected on and that makes them see your actions in the same light.
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Re: Random complaints and advice thread 3

Postby mak » 2014-01-27, 7:18

Sol Invictus wrote:The other day I read an interview with some random psychiatrist who claimed that too many women in government would cause stagnation

Here is an article about what happens with productivity at a female only workplace :D
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/artic ... lict-.html

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Re: Random complaints and advice thread 3

Postby Sol Invictus » 2014-01-27, 7:44

mak wrote:
Sol Invictus wrote:The other day I read an interview with some random psychiatrist who claimed that too many women in government would cause stagnation

Here is an article about what happens with productivity at a female only workplace :D
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/artic ... lict-.html

Or what normally happens in TV companies, especially if you have sexist hiring policy, which attracts even more arrogant personalities than it normally would

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Re: Random complaints and advice thread 3

Postby mak » 2014-01-27, 9:23

You did not read the article :(

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Re: Random complaints and advice thread 3

Postby Varislintu » 2014-01-27, 9:46

mak wrote:
Sol Invictus wrote:The other day I read an interview with some random psychiatrist who claimed that too many women in government would cause stagnation

Here is an article about what happens with productivity at a female only workplace :D
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/artic ... lict-.html


Yes, we should obviously close down schools, hospitals, veterinarian's offices, old people's homes, libraries and other severely female dominated work places for dysfunctionality, because this article reliably describes what such places are like.
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Re: Random complaints and advice thread 3

Postby Sol Invictus » 2014-01-27, 9:56

I scanned over it. As far as I gather her complaint was too much sexual tension, which actually has nothing to do with work, but with their inability to find an outlet for that outside of work, which obviously is not typical for their gender otherwise humanity would have gone extinct, so it more likely has something to do with kind of personalities attracted by work in such company. And it's not like there is no such issues in all male workplaces

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Re: Random complaints and advice thread 3

Postby Varislintu » 2014-01-27, 10:04

Sol Invictus wrote:I scanned over it. As far as I gather her complaint was too much sexual tension, which actually has nothing to do with work, but with their inability to find an outlet for that outside of work, which obviously is not typical for their gender otherwise humanity would have gone extinct, so it more likely has something to do with kind of personalities attracted by work in such company. And it's not like there is no such issues in all male workplaces


Haha, your second sentence made me chuckle. :D

Yeah, seriously, I've seen reliable depictions ( :P ) of all-male work places in American reality series like the ones where they log trees, or the pawn shop, or the container auction, or tattoo parlors, and seriously those places are so full of aggression, posturing and growling that it's dysfunctional to say the least. :wink:
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Re: Random complaints and advice thread 3

Postby Varislintu » 2014-01-27, 10:17

Well, now that mak has done his best to prime female forum readers with the idea that there is this threat in their society that random men will try to label their gender as hysterical catfighting weight-obsessed drama queens in the work environment, we might see a few more women randomly snap the next time an unsuspecting man opens the door for them, triggering in them the fresh memory of this threat. :ohwell:
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Re: Random complaints and advice thread 3

Postby languagepotato » 2014-01-27, 10:41

if people can snap at me for opening the door, i can snap at people for asking me to help them carry stuff. :ohwell:
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