European Parliament Elections 2014

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Varislintu
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Re: European Parliament Elections 2014

Postby Varislintu » 2014-05-26, 11:58

meidei wrote:I don't understand why in other countries (Greece, and apparently also Spain) there's a separate ballot for each list.
Over here, it's a single ballot with all parties and candidates on it. They can't hide the ballots they don't like that way. You get a single ballot with everyone on it.


We don't have ballots in elections in Finland. :hmm: We have a foldable piece of paper (much like a folded birthday card), inside which the voter writes the number of their candidate on a preprinted line or inside a circle.

I wonder why the conventions differ.

EDIT: Oh, I learned what it's called in English: a voting slip. Here's a picture.

EDIT2: Oh, wait, voting slip can also mean the kind of thing where you have an entire list of candidates.
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Re: European Parliament Elections 2014

Postby md0 » 2014-05-26, 12:08

This is how it looks in Cyprus

http://www.kyproekloges.com/images/kypr ... ltio_2.png

You pick a party (or an independent) by ticking in the thick block at the bottom.
You can optionally influence the order of the candidates in the party you are voting for, by ticking next to the name of your preferred candidate (doesn't apply if you are voting for an independent).
When the seats are allocated, the candidate with the most preference ticks gets the first seat allocated to their party, and so on.
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Re: European Parliament Elections 2014

Postby Varislintu » 2014-05-26, 12:27

meidei wrote:This is how it looks in Cyprus

http://www.kyproekloges.com/images/kypr ... ltio_2.png

You pick a party (or an independent) by ticking in the thick block at the bottom.
You can optionally influence the order of the candidates in the party you are voting for, by ticking next to the name of your preferred candidate (doesn't apply if you are voting for an independent).
When the seats are allocated, the candidate with the most preference ticks gets the first seat allocated to their party, and so on.


I see. So with this voting style, it's perhaps more transparently obvious that this election was more about voting for a party than a candidate?

How would a voting slip/ballot look in a very candidate-driven election, say for precidency?
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Re: European Parliament Elections 2014

Postby md0 » 2014-05-26, 12:43

Yes, in parliamentary elections (national or Euro), you primarily vote for a party, with the option to influence the party list. It's better than just voting a party list with a fixed order, as it is the case in England, from what I gather. Most people here want a reform called "horizontal voting", which is a bit vaguely defined, but it's more or less the reversal of the current system: make voting for a candidate obligatory, and voting for a party optional. But it's too vaguely defined at the moment, I guess an actual system similar to "horizontal voting" would be Mixed Member Proportional.


(Btw: you get one preference tick for every 4 seats in your constituency, rounding upwards. So, my constituency has 11 seats in the national parliament, that means 11/4=2.75, meaning I get 3 preference ticks in that party list I am voting for. In the European elections Cyprus is a single constituency, so 6/4=1.5, 2 preference ticks. It's not ranked, all ticks are equal preference)

As for the presidential elections, it looks like that. (Note: In Cyprus, the President is both head of state and head of government, like in the US and a few other countries)

http://offsite.com.cy/wp-content/upload ... 2013-1.jpg

If no candidate reaches 50%+1 vote, there's a run-off election the following Sunday. And no candidate ever received more than 35~40% of the vote in the first round since Makarios died. So there's always a second round. In the week between, the two most popular candidates seek to form alliances with the guy who came in third. It's a true Middle Eastern Bazaar taking place.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/ ... 7664_n.jpg
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Re: European Parliament Elections 2014

Postby Varislintu » 2014-05-26, 12:58

meidei wrote:As for the presidential elections, it looks like that. (Note: In Cyprus, the President is both head of state and head of government, like in the US and a few other countries)

http://offsite.com.cy/wp-content/upload ... 2013-1.jpg


That's interesting, because here even the posters that list the voting options in the voting venue are not allowed to have the candidates' pictures on them. I think because it's considered to be too influencing.
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Re: European Parliament Elections 2014

Postby md0 » 2014-05-26, 13:04

It might be, but they are included as to not disenfranchise illiterate people (currently aged 70++ years old and make 1.3% of the population - of that 1.3%, two-thirds are elderly women born in the 30s-50s so you can see why they weren't even in primary school)
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Re: European Parliament Elections 2014

Postby Varislintu » 2014-05-26, 13:11

meidei wrote:It might be, but they are included as to not disenfranchise illiterate people (currently aged 70++ years old and make 1.3% of the population - of that 1.3%, two-thirds are elderly women born in the 30s-50s so you can see why they weren't even in primary school)


Good point, it's easy to forget that.
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Re: European Parliament Elections 2014

Postby loqu » 2014-05-26, 15:22

xivrox wrote:
loqu wrote:Hey, well done for celebrating xenophobia. Those nice people in those parties make this world a better place to live... if you're NOT a migrant.
I’d choose them over the ones calling for more “European integration” at all times. I don’t care what they want to do in their respective countries, it’s not my problem. I care about what they want to do with EU, and since we’re forced to be part of it, I support them in their anti-unionism. :roll:

I feel there's a non-sequitur somewhere. You're wrong in something: you are not forced to be part of the EU and if you Poles want to pull out, you may want to vote for a political party that has that in their program for your own parliamentary elections. Celebrating the rise of fascist parties in other countries is celebrating their policies. Oh, and

I don’t care what they want to do in their respective countries, it’s not my problem.

ever heard of what sympathy is?

xivrox wrote:
I can celebrate that the Spanish equivalent to those xenophobic bigots haven't managed to get a single seat in the European Parliament - we had 54 to assign and they got none of them.
That’s sad. Spain has yet to wake up, the rest of Europe slowly is. :yep:

Spain in lots of topics acts as if we lived isolated from Europe -the Pyrenees are a big psychological barrier- and this is one of those topics. I'm glad our own bigots still live in their own folkloric bigotry and haven't copied these outright xenophobic fads so popular in Europe right now.
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Re: European Parliament Elections 2014

Postby Sol Invictus » 2014-05-26, 15:26

meidei wrote:I don't understand why in other countries (Greece, and apparently also Spain) there's a separate ballot for each list.

We vote for list and for candidates on that list. We pick the list of party we vote for, cross out people we don't want,give a plus to people we really want and put the list in envelope (the envelope counts as vote, you can just use empty envelope and it still counts) Here's a video explaining the process for parliamentary elections https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIeiSe2rKho

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Re: European Parliament Elections 2014

Postby JuxtapositionQMan » 2014-05-26, 15:56

Hello.
First of all, I live in the US. :woohoo:
Second, I live in the US. :bittercry:
Third, why is it that the anti-EU party reminds me so much of the US Republican party?
Well, that was a thing.
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Re: European Parliament Elections 2014

Postby Levike » 2014-05-26, 15:58

JuxtapositionQMan wrote:Second, I live in the US. :bittercry:
You know ... those Transylvanian Saxon houses are empty for a reason. :wink:
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Re: European Parliament Elections 2014

Postby JuxtapositionQMan » 2014-05-26, 16:02

Actually, I just had a thought: why do they sound so much like the Confederates in the US civil war? "Dissolve the Union", "Loyal to our own state", Conservativism, ect.
Levike wrote:
JuxtapositionQMan wrote:Second, I live in the US. :bittercry:
You know ... Romania lately has been looking for immigrants. :wink:
I'm not sure I want to now, with all the "dissolve the EU" buisiness. :?
I mean, that was the best part about Europe! :cry:
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Re: European Parliament Elections 2014

Postby Levike » 2014-05-26, 16:05

JuxtapositionQMan wrote:I'm not sure I want to now, with all the "dissolve the EU" business. :?
I mean, that was the best part about Europe! :cry:
Whatever it may look like from the other part of the ocean, but it's not going to dissolve.

We're just too interconnected to be able to do something like that.

Even with its numerous flaws.
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Re: European Parliament Elections 2014

Postby Lur » 2014-05-26, 16:07

loqu wrote:I'm glad our own bigots still live in their own folkloric bigotry

:lol: :lol: That's a way to explain how some things are here.
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Re: European Parliament Elections 2014

Postby IpseDixit » 2014-05-26, 16:34

JuxtapositionQMan wrote:Third, why is it that the anti-EU party reminds me so much of the US Republican party?


The whole idea of lumping lots of parties together just because they share euroskeptic views is very wrong indeed. But to me those who look like Republicans are actually the "more Europe, Europe all the way!" kinds of politicians, that are those politicians who proved to be much more interested in helping out big corporations and big financial institutions rather than the European peoples.

Actually, I just had a thought: why do they sound so much like the Confederates in the US civil war? "Dissolve the Union", "Loyal to our own state", Conservativism, ect.


Well, your analogy is of course wrong because the EU is a supranational organization and not a country. But anyway to me in a way they sound much more like anti-USSR ;)
Last edited by IpseDixit on 2014-05-26, 19:15, edited 6 times in total.

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Re: European Parliament Elections 2014

Postby Ludwig Whitby » 2014-05-26, 16:42

Parties that are opposed to the EU are not nearly popular enough to be able to do something. Don't worry.


Euroskeptic parties often point out real problems that the mainstream parties ignore or dismis. Those real issues shouldn't be dismissed as 'xenophobic bullshit' together with real xenophobia and racism. Don't throw out the baby with the bath-water. The fact is that people voted to join an economic union, and not what the EU is becoming and trying to become. The fact is that the EU is threatening democracy and making the gap between the MPs and the voters bigger. The fact is that the EU has reacted badly to the economic crisis. Etc...

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Re: European Parliament Elections 2014

Postby IpseDixit » 2014-05-26, 16:45

Ludwig Whitby wrote:Parties that are opposed to the EU are not nearly popular enough to be able to do something. Don't worry.


Maybe I didn't get what you mean but to me it seems that euroskeptic parties have become very mainstream in many countries.

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Re: European Parliament Elections 2014

Postby Ludwig Whitby » 2014-05-26, 16:59

IpseDixit wrote:
Ludwig Whitby wrote:Parties that are opposed to the EU are not nearly popular enough to be able to do something. Don't worry.


Maybe I didn't get what you mean but to me it seems that euroskeptic parties have become very mainstream in many countries.

I don't believe they'll be able to do anything significant, despite becoming much more mainstream. Maybe It looks different from outside of the EU, but I really don't see them as that big of a threat. If the crisis wanes and the mainstream parties play their cards right, the euroskeptics' popularity will disappear as quickly as it appeared. To me, voting the euroskeptics means casting a protest-vote. If the big parties understand that, the next time they'd be no need for a protest-vote.

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Re: European Parliament Elections 2014

Postby Sol Invictus » 2014-05-26, 17:35

JuxtapositionQMan wrote:Actually, I just had a thought: why do they sound so much like the Confederates in the US civil war? "Dissolve the Union", "Loyal to our own state", Conservativism, ect.

It could be rather compared with Americans not wanting common government with Canada and Mexico just because they all are members of, say, NAFTA

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Re: European Parliament Elections 2014

Postby Hoogstwaarschijnlijk » 2014-05-26, 19:13

Sol Invictus wrote:
meidei wrote:I don't understand why in other countries (Greece, and apparently also Spain) there's a separate ballot for each list.

We vote for list and for candidates on that list. We pick the list of party we vote for, cross out people we don't want,give a plus to people we really want and put the list in envelope (the envelope counts as vote, you can just use empty envelope and it still counts) Here's a video explaining the process for parliamentary elections https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIeiSe2rKho

:shock:


I never realised that voting could be so different everywhere! I think this one sounds very complicated, but the Finnish one amazes me even more, what if you have an unclear handwriting?

Here it looks like this:
Image
This is only a part, it's a huge paper. If you vote on the PvdD, like me, you need to unfold it all and no way that you're able to fold it back the way it was :lol:

You just need to mark the candidate red you want.
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