How do/did they teach religion in your school?

This forum is the place to have more serious discussions about politics and religion, and your opinions thereof. Be courteous!

Moderator: Forum Administrators

Forum rules
When a registered user insults another person (user or not), nation, political group or religious group, s/he will be deprived of her/his permission to post in the forum. That user has the right to re-register one week after s/he has lost the permission. Further violations will result in longer prohibitions.

By default, you are automatically registered to post in this forum. However, users cannot post in the politics forum during the first week after registration. Users can also not make their very first post in the politics forum.
User avatar
Levike
Posts: 6153
Joined: 2013-04-22, 19:26
Real Name: Levi
Gender: male
Location: Budapest
Country: HU Hungary (Magyarország)

How do/did they teach religion in your school?

Postby Levike » 2013-09-13, 14:22

How do/did they teach religion in your school?

In my elementary school is was mostly about telling Bible stories.
But the way the teacher told them gave the stories a fairy-tale look.
It was like listening to literature.

In high school religion class was more like sex-education, or having a personal psychologist.
For 4 year the only things the teacher said were:
- Don't drink too much alcohol, just a bit, so you won't get drunk
- Be good to your parents, to your friends, classmates
- If you're gay or love someone just then tell otherwise you'll be unhappy
- Have sex with only people you like and always use protection
- Don't smoke, it's not good for your health
- Don't hide your feelings

We also visited one orthodox and one protestant church and also a synagogue
to learn about their history and about those religions' history.

So for me it was like religion without the religious part.
Nem egy nap alatt épült Buda vára.

User avatar
Marah
Posts: 3015
Joined: 2011-06-03, 17:01
Real Name: Jonathan
Gender: male
Country: FR France (France)

Re: How do/did they teach religion in your school?

Postby Marah » 2013-09-13, 14:42

In France we study religion in History class but not that much. I think most pupils just learn what defines Christianity, Judaism, Islam and maybe Buddhism too.
Par exemple, l'enfant croit au Père Noël. L'adulte non. L'adulte ne croit pas au Père Noël. Il vote.

IpseDixit

Re: How do/did they teach religion in your school?

Postby IpseDixit » 2013-09-13, 15:26

In Italy we have one hour a week dedicated to Catholicism. I think it's because of Lateran Pacts. Anyways, this class is not compulsory and those who don't want to attend it (roughly 90% of the students), can stay in the school library or go out (only if they have the authorization of their parents in case they're underage).

User avatar
johntm
Posts: 6717
Joined: 2011-03-17, 21:11
Real Name: John
Gender: male
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: How do/did they teach religion in your school?

Postby johntm » 2013-09-13, 15:36

In high school history class in the 9th grade we talked about a bunch of different religions and had to do a project on them, and I remember in my world literature class (10th grade English) we read passages from the Bible and the Qur'an. Beyond that, not much, maybe casual mentions in other English classes when a work referenced the Bible.
There was a religion class at my high school, I think, but I never took it.
Native: [flag]en-US[/flag]
Learning: [flag]fr[/flag] [flag]es[/flag] [flag]de[/flag]
"The goal [of learning foreign languages] is to speak not so that you can be understood, but so that you cannot be misunderstood."-Earl W. Stevick
"You either get good at accomplishments or you get good at making excuses."-Anonymous

Bijlee

Re: How do/did they teach religion in your school?

Postby Bijlee » 2013-09-13, 15:49

We didn't do any religion in elementary school. Though, most kids went to Catechism/ CCD classes or a youth group. We also had a voluntary thing at recess where a local church would pick kids up and teach them Bible stories for a half hour(kids' parents signed them up for this- a lot of kids would go outside and hide from the church teachers when they came lol)

In middle school and high school we did some basic world religions chapters in social studies and history class. We also did a little religion in world literature to understand the novels better. There was mythology and world religions as elective classes too in high school. Mythology was pretty popular, but not world religions.

Pretty much anything we learned was basic. I think a class should be required on world religions.
Last edited by Bijlee on 2013-09-13, 17:43, edited 1 time in total.

ling
Posts: 828
Joined: 2012-05-03, 9:09
Gender: male
Country: TW Taiwan (臺灣)

Re: How do/did they teach religion in your school?

Postby ling » 2013-09-13, 17:11

When I was in the UK between ages 8 and 9, they had a class called "Divinity", which was essentially learning about stories from the Bible and little more. Weak-sauce Church of England stuff. We weren't expected to believe it was true.

In the US, no religious instruction at all. My school district did a very good job of heeding church-state separation. In 12th grade we did have an elective Bible as Literature class, which I, an atheist, took. We analyzed narratives and origins of the texts; we were absolutely not taught it was divine truth.
Native: [flag=]en[/flag] Advanced: [flag=]zh[/flag] Actively studying: [flag=]th[/flag][flag=]id[/flag] Passively dabbling: [flag=]lkt[/flag]

User avatar
johntm
Posts: 6717
Joined: 2011-03-17, 21:11
Real Name: John
Gender: male
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: How do/did they teach religion in your school?

Postby johntm » 2013-09-13, 17:23

Ling, what state(s) did you go to school in?
I don't remember any religious instruction in Georgia, all of what I mentioned was in high school in North Carolina.
Native: [flag]en-US[/flag]
Learning: [flag]fr[/flag] [flag]es[/flag] [flag]de[/flag]
"The goal [of learning foreign languages] is to speak not so that you can be understood, but so that you cannot be misunderstood."-Earl W. Stevick
"You either get good at accomplishments or you get good at making excuses."-Anonymous

User avatar
md0
Posts: 7754
Joined: 2010-08-08, 19:56
Country: DE Germany (Deutschland)

Re: How do/did they teach religion in your school?

Postby md0 » 2013-09-13, 17:23

Some necessary historical context for Cyprus:

Great Britain designed the Republic of Cyprus as an unitary presidential republic that was inhabited by two peoples: Orthodox Christian Greeks and Sunni Muslim Turks. Non-Orthodox Christians (namely Western Catholics, Maronite/Arab Catholics, Anglicans and Armenian Apostolic Christians) were classified as Orthodox Christian Greeks, and technically so were Jewish people, On the other end, non-Sunni Muslims (which are afaik very few and nearly none of them Turkish) were classified as Sunni Muslim Turks. If you didn't see yourself as neither Greek or Turk or you were irreligious, tough luck, the constitution drafted by Her Majesty's lawyers only recognise those two groups.

Since it was designed to be an unitary state, very few things were devolved to the communities, but among them were education and family law (were provisions from the Orthodox Canon and the Shari'a were included, something that I believe we finally stopped doing before EU admission). So, all public schools in Cyprus were "Greek" and "Turkish", and therefore "Christian" and "Islamic". Turkish Cypriots are of course in their majority strongly Kemalists so they had some degree of secularism that the Greek community still doesn't have. Private schools existed for Catholics and Armenian Apostolic Christians.

To sum up, "Greek schools" were intended to produce Greek Christians. And they did.

They still do. After 1963, when Turkish Cypriots withdrawn from the Republic of Cyprus, the Greek Educational Board became the Ministry of Education and Culture, without changing much. In the recent years they were obliged to provide opt-outs from Christianity classes (thanks EU), but they required parental consent and a proof that they belonged to a different organised religion. Again, irreligious people weren't recognised. "You were baptised therefore you are Christian!" or "On your student file it says Christian Orthodox, you can't opt out". And of course, even if irreligiosity was recognised, your parents needed to consent, and even my non-practising parents are uncomfortable with me and one of my brothers being irreligious and they prefer not to let people know about it. But even for students of other faiths, it was rarely enforced. In many cases people who applied to be exempt never heard back, and those who did should also be lucky to have a tolerant school principal. In a recent case a JW student, although having received an exemption note was nearly expelled from the school of accumulating hundreds of "absent" notes... all for the christianity class that she was supposedly exempt from, but the principal didn't wish to accept it.

Now, context complete, to what is actually taught:

In pre-school I remember the typical stories from the Bible but in children-friendly version. Constant exposure to Orthodox Christian symbols (and Greek nationalistic symbols, plus, militant culture, "Never Forget 1974", drilling of the fear of Turks). Around that time I was required to wear a cross around my neck because apparently "it was shameful not to wear one".

Now, on primary school, Christianity becomes a formal lesson. Lots of hours per week (6~10), and though it varies, it's always more hours per week than Environment and Geography combined.
The religious class also start as light but now they incorporate morality and warnings that we should be careful because there are "misguided people", "schismatics" and "heretics". It's mostly a fear of Jehovah's Witnesses but some other "heresies" were mentioned which I have since forgot.
Nationalism was also amplified up to the eleven, with notebooks that had "NEVER FORGET" and pictures from northern Cyprus printed on them. There was also a Never Forget subject, usually once a week, where we would learn about the atrocities of Turkey in 1974. More over, it is obligatory to take part in 3 or 4 militaristic parades each year, on "national holidays". Imagine 7 year olds marching like soldiers, with flags and stuff (no guns though, thank God). That was obligatory.

It didn't stop on Christianity Class though. Not only nationalistic and christian imagery and rhetoric was used in all books, from mathematics textbooks to environment studies (where Noah's Arc was used to explain biodiversity), but history textbooks where incredibly biased in favour of the Christian Church. Sure, the Church is part of the histories, but the books where full of lies. Eg the Church is presented as the main force behind the 1821 uprising of Greeks against the Ottoman Empire, when in fact the Christian Church condemned that uprising and excommunicated its leaders because their interests (tax collection and political authority) were protected by the Ottomans.

Outside school, you were expected to go to a katēchiticon (let's call it Bible study in English) on Saturday and to the church on Sunday. Since in primary school more teachers are local, they expect to see you there, and if you didn't show up you would be scolded on Monday in front of the whole class. For that reason I kept going to Bible Study since I was 10 years old. Maybe 11. I was a good student as well, I've won an icon of our Lord and Saviour.

Now, in Middle School the subject of Biology appears, and the subject of Christianity still exists (Which I should mention that it's misleading called Religious Affairs, though it only talks about the Orthodox Christian worldview). In Biology, as usual religious rhetoric and no mention of evolution.
In religious class in middle school we watched a lot of tapes. Stuff about satanic messages if you play tapes in the reverse order, how rock music will make you a drug addicted satanist, how abortion is murder (even though abortion is illegal anyway) and other conspiracy theories about the new world order and stuff.
History also remains skewed in favour of the Church.
Nationalist sentiments and militaristic parades continue. History is never approached critically and what happened between 1960 and 1974 is not discussed.
But now you can feel free not to go to Church every Sunday because the teachers in secondary schools are rarely local.

The two years of highschool are also like middle school. Now, on the final year those two things happened:
a) There was a single page devoted to evolution in the text book. As the biology teacher said "I am obliged to go through this so yeah, it says that humans were monkeys. If you want to believe that, suit yourself. I am no monkey". And then she showed as dramaticised videos of abortions for maybe the 12th time in that year. She really hated abortions. And they are not even legal here.
b) there was a chapter on world religions in the book. in those two lessons we learnt two things: a) muslims are monsters who kill every person they meet and absolutely loathe women and b) every other religion in the word is ridiculous, laughable and idol-worshiping. Those Hindus who worship cows and spirits with a gazillion hands and 5 eyes etc. On Shintoism especially he went on to tell us that Japanese people are all suicide pilots.

So that's pretty much my experience with public education in Cyprus.

Now, I am long out of school but I read the latest Ministry's order: emphasis on religion, organise students to help at local churches, form religious choirs.
Supposedly all in school time.
"If you like your clause structure, you can keep your clause structure"
Stable: Cypriot Greek (el-cy)Standard Modern Greek (el)English (en) Current: Standard German (de)
Legacy: France French (fr)Japanese (ja)Standard Turkish (tr)Elementary Finnish (fi)Netherlands Dutch (nl)

User avatar
Levike
Posts: 6153
Joined: 2013-04-22, 19:26
Real Name: Levi
Gender: male
Location: Budapest
Country: HU Hungary (Magyarország)

Re: How do/did they teach religion in your school?

Postby Levike » 2013-09-13, 17:49

Did it really convince people to believe in religion.

My classmates who were catholic had to study religion for real,
and the result was that at the end they got to the point of hating everything linked to religion.
meidei wrote:Now, I am long out of school but I read the latest Ministry's order: emphasis on religion, organise students to help at local churches, form religious choirs.
Supposedly all in school time.

:shock: That would be a bit harsh.
Nem egy nap alatt épült Buda vára.

User avatar
md0
Posts: 7754
Joined: 2010-08-08, 19:56
Country: DE Germany (Deutschland)

Re: How do/did they teach religion in your school?

Postby md0 » 2013-09-13, 18:01

Did it really convince people to believe in religion.

My classmates who were catholic had to study religion for real,
and the result was that at the end they got to the point of hating everything linked to religion.

An eurobarometer from about five years ago recorded that in south Cyprus, only 1,3% identify as atheists, 3~4% identify as spiritual and the rest identify as religious.
An older research, from 2001 found that among the religious people (so that's like 95% of total the population), half of them practiced their religion regularly (so again, that's almost completely Christian Orthodox) and the other half only observed high holidays (that would be where my immediate family falls. My extended family from my parent's side is very devout. From my mothers, mostly on high holidays only).

That would be a bit harsh.

After all those things already happening?
I wasn't surprised. What was actually disappointing is that reforms that were slowly implemented in the past three years are now being reversed and replaced to what existed from time immemorial. That's in the subjects of native language (it was proposed that linguistic shaming is abandoned) and about the methods used in teaching literature (critical literacy as an approach. this is, to actually understand what a text says and why does it say it that way and not differently. That wasn't even implemented yet. In all my days in school we were given printouts titled "Text XYZ says a, b, c" to memorise, and composition was like "Television destroyed the society, Explain why"). But that has to do more with nationalism and the installment of conformism on students, which is the general priority of the public schools in Cyprus. As the main teacher union said, the proposed reforms are not militant enough and should be abandoned. The new Min of Edu agreed because... he agrees basically, he's a conservative. Some 70% of Greek Cypriots are utterly conservative, and the rest, "the communists" (if you are not a nationalist you are a communist to them, you don't get to choose your identity in Cyprus, as I already mentioned) aka "traitors" are conservative in their own semi-christian-semi-soviet way. Of course, it did matter than the Church is the only organisation that has money, and the MinEdu needs money to feed its students. So they agreed on the choir thing, the helping out, the more hours to religion classes and to make exemptions even more difficult.
Last edited by md0 on 2013-09-13, 18:07, edited 1 time in total.
"If you like your clause structure, you can keep your clause structure"
Stable: Cypriot Greek (el-cy)Standard Modern Greek (el)English (en) Current: Standard German (de)
Legacy: France French (fr)Japanese (ja)Standard Turkish (tr)Elementary Finnish (fi)Netherlands Dutch (nl)

ling
Posts: 828
Joined: 2012-05-03, 9:09
Gender: male
Country: TW Taiwan (臺灣)

Re: How do/did they teach religion in your school?

Postby ling » 2013-09-13, 18:05

johntm wrote:Ling, what state(s) did you go to school in?

California. SF Bay Area.
Native: [flag=]en[/flag] Advanced: [flag=]zh[/flag] Actively studying: [flag=]th[/flag][flag=]id[/flag] Passively dabbling: [flag=]lkt[/flag]

User avatar
linguoboy
Posts: 24311
Joined: 2009-08-25, 15:11
Real Name: Da
Location: Chicago
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: How do/did they teach religion in your school?

Postby linguoboy » 2013-09-13, 20:18

With the exception of kindergarten, for which I attended a public school in Maryland, all of my education was at religiously-affiliated schools: Catholic parochial grade schools, a Catholic college preparatory run by a religious order, and a Baptist university.

The Catholic schools had a mandatory period of religious instruction every day. (Class periods in US schools are generally 50-60 minutes, depending.) I honestly couldn't tell you much about what they consisted of in grade school; I vaguely remember the bulk of the time was spent on moral instruction, very little on theology or Church history. In eighth grade, our religion teacher found an old standardised test of religious knowledge from about a generation earlier and, for fun, had us take it. We bombed; it was filled with concepts (e.g. corporal vs spiritual works of mercy) which had simply never been taught to us before.

In high school, the classes became much more interesting, scholarly, and useful. We actually learned about the reforms of Vatican II in concrete detail, for instance. We also had our first real sex ed; our instructor brought in a married couple and we were allowed to ask them whatever we wanted about their sex life. (There was no sex education outside of religion classes apart from learning about the reproductive system in biology class.) Our exposure to world religions was superficial and extremely Christianocentric, emphasising supposed commonalities rather than viewing them on their own terms.

Despite my university's affiliation, it behaved for all intents and purposes as a completely secular institution. There was no religious instruction of any kind; religion was studied as an academic subject like any other and on a completely elective basis. (I elected not to take any classes with a religious component.) For the first time since kindergarten, I was not required to attend any religious services as part of my education. (From fifth through eighth grade, we attended mass daily; in first through fourth and in high school, only for particular feasts.)
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

User avatar
Psi-Lord
Posts: 10087
Joined: 2002-08-18, 7:02
Real Name: Marcel Q.
Gender: male
Location: Cândido Mota
Country: BR Brazil (Brasil)
Contact:

Re: How do/did they teach religion in your school?

Postby Psi-Lord » 2013-09-13, 20:37

I’ve never had any classes on religion at school at all – public school for eight years, then private school for three years.

I did have Catechism classes, though, as every other Catholic child (although the age and number of years varies from place to place) – three years before First Communion, and then one year before Confirmation. For the first three years, we had three/four hours of lessons on Monday afternoons, and then, for the final year, three/four hours on Saturday mornings. Lessons were mostly about reading given excerpts from the Bible, discussing the ideas presented there, copying parts of it, answering questions etc. Going to Mass on Sunday (or at least Saturday evening) was part of it, and we’d often also discuss the readings, the Gospel, the homily etc. Even though we did have exams and the like every two months or so, plus a final exame by the end of the year, classes were also very informal in a way.
português do Brasil (pt-BR)British English (en-GB) galego (gl) português (pt) •• العربية (ar) български (bg) Cymraeg (cy) Deutsch (de)  r n km.t (egy) español rioplatense (es-AR) 日本語 (ja) 한국어 (ko) lingua Latina (la) ••• Esperanto (eo) (grc) français (fr) (hi) magyar (hu) italiano (it) polski (pl) Türkçe (tr) 普通話 (zh-CN)

User avatar
Strigo
Posts: 4724
Joined: 2002-12-27, 13:16
Real Name: Carlos Reyes Barría
Gender: male
Location: La Florida
Country: CL Chile (Chile)
Contact:

Re: How do/did they teach religion in your school?

Postby Strigo » 2013-09-19, 13:55

As far as I know, religion is a mandatory class in Chile until the age of 12 or something. Then it all depends on which school you went to. In my case, I was in a secular private school but Catholic religion was most of my classmates' beliefs (or at least, their religious background) and they taught us excerpts from the Old and New Testament (the Old Testament was always the most interesting for me) and they taught us songs and the life of some of the most well-known "saints" (like Francis of Assisi and Saint Sebastian) and the life of our own home-made saints such as Saint Teresa of the Andes.

I also remember we had one Jewish guy, some Protestant, a couple of Chinese and an Indian guy (yeah, pretty diverse, huh) and they didn't attend the class and went to either the library or the computers lab instead.

Just like my friend Marcel/Psi-Lord, I had Cathecism classes for two years, every saturday ( :shock: ) until I did my First Communion. Back then I was like 13 or 12 and I still had a pinch of religiousness in my lost soul. I actually remember that I woke up every Sunday morning to go to church by myself.

Then you have to study again to do the Confirmation but my Catholicism had vanished out of my mind back then and now I must say I am non-religious. Being atheist is such a demanding thing and the truth is I don't need/want to prove anything in my life regarding the existence of God but I believe you don't need to believe in God to have a healthy and righteous life. I tend to believe that my dead ancestors help me from time to time, that's the Latin blood within. :lol:
Aquí es donde traduzco diariamente música israelí del hebreo al español

[flag]cl[/flag] native; [flag]en[/flag] fluent; [flag]il[/flag] lower advanced ; [flag]pt-BR[/flag] read fluently, understand well, speak not so badly (specially after some Itaipava); recently focusing on [flag]sv[/flag][flag]ar[/flag] and I promised myself to finish my [flag]ru[/flag] New Penguin Russian Course: A Complete Course for Beginners in less than a month (12/oct/2013). Wants to wake up one day speaking [flag]ka[/flag][flag]lt[/flag] and any Turkic language.

User avatar
Johanna
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 6622
Joined: 2006-09-17, 18:05
Real Name: Johanna
Gender: female
Location: Lidköping, Westrogothia
Country: SE Sweden (Sverige)

Re: How do/did they teach religion in your school?

Postby Johanna » 2013-09-19, 15:43

In Sweden you learn about the different religions of the world, both current and historical, although it's usually very Eurocentric, so you end up learning more about the Hellenic gods and goddesses than about major religions such as Buddhism and Hinduism.

At least the subject is approached like any other subject, there's no way you have to profess any sort of belief, and what the different religions teach isn't presented as facts, it's always from an outside perspective. Which also means that everyone has to attend those classes.
Swedish (sv) native; English (en) good; Norwegian (no) read fluently, understand well, speak badly; Danish (dk) read fluently, understand badly, can't speak; Faroese (fo) read some, understand a bit, speak a few sentences; German (de) French (fr) Spanish (es) forgetting; heritage language.

User avatar
johnklepac
Posts: 2809
Joined: 2012-12-06, 2:18
Real Name: Your Onions
Gender: male
Location: Chicago/Southwest Ohio
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: How do/did they teach religion in your school?

Postby johnklepac » 2013-09-19, 20:26

I noticed an almost hypochondriac aversion to religion in my schools' curricula (all public schools in Illinois). I remember reading something on Taoism and Buddhism in my ninth grade honors world history class, but nothing Abrahamic, even from an emphatically analytical stance. As a college freshman, though, I'm in an Abrahamic-focused Religious Extremism class. (I'm a computer science major, but, long story short, it fulfills a requirement.)

Ludwig Whitby
Posts: 3665
Joined: 2009-03-30, 13:44
Gender: male
Location: Belgrade
Country: RS Serbia (Србија)

Re: How do/did they teach religion in your school?

Postby Ludwig Whitby » 2013-09-19, 20:36

I didn't get taught religion in my elementary school, because when I started it we were still sort of a communist country. In my high school there was a religion class which I didn't take, because it wasn't mandatory. We learned a little about Abrahamic religions in our mandatory sociology classes, though.

Halfdan
Posts: 773
Joined: 2012-12-22, 5:41
Gender: male
Country: CA Canada (Canada)

Re: How do/did they teach religion in your school?

Postby Halfdan » 2013-09-20, 0:39

Religion was never taught in my school years. There were electives in high school, yes, but nothing mandatory.

Sol Invictus
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 2989
Joined: 2007-01-04, 13:59
Gender: female
Location: Rīga
Country: LV Latvia (Latvija)

Re: How do/did they teach religion in your school?

Postby Sol Invictus » 2013-09-20, 18:19

When I was little I think it was supposed to be free choice class (but wasn't really). Most teachers just told some Bible stories, but one tried to teach church traditions, religious songs and praying, and gave us some books of bible. Some time ago we had some religious wackos in government so I think they made that class mandatory and much more like the later stuff, trying to force religion onto the child. Apparently currently there is a choice to take class called Ethics instead, I had such class sometime in 7th-9th grade level, it was total BS with no obvious purpose. So either you pick total BS or something that could be remotely useful (see below), but unfortunately requires that your child learns to recognize Jesus as his or her savior

Personally I think religions (and not just Christianity) should be taught in high school, possibly in connection with history. For one because understanding what the people's world view used to be would help to better understand some historical events and on the other hand it could be on occasions practical to know what local church traditions are, but obviously nobody remembers, if it was taught up to the forth grade, just because Christian community thinks you need to start them young

User avatar
Michael
Posts: 7122
Joined: 2009-07-21, 3:07
Real Name: Mike
Gender: male
Location: Oak Park, IL
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: How do/did they teach religion in your school?

Postby Michael » 2013-11-22, 7:15

I've attended 9 different schools in the states of Illinois and Indiana, and my curricula has always been completely secular.
American English (en-us) Pizzonese (nap) N Italian (it) Mexican Spanish (es-mx) Brazilian Portuguese (pt-br) Albanian (sq) B1 Greek (el) Persian (fa) A2 Romanian (ro) Old English (en_old) Turkish (tr) Azerbaijani (az) A1
„Çdo njeri është peng i veprave të veta.‟
Every human being is hostage to their own deeds.


Return to “Politics and Religion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest