Re: Redrawing borders
Posted: 2013-08-21, 18:03
mōdgethanc wrote:If Argentina takes back the Falklands before I'm 50, I'll buy you a Coke.
Thanks, but I don't drink soda.
mōdgethanc wrote:If Argentina takes back the Falklands before I'm 50, I'll buy you a Coke.
Not even Coke Zero? Fine, I'll buy you a drink of your choosing. (Within reason, that is; I'm not made of money.)Yasna wrote:Thanks, but I don't drink soda.
mōdgethanc wrote:So they can live under Palestinian tyranny. Great!HoItalosPhilellên wrote:1. Liberate West Bank and Gaza from Israeli tyranny for an independent Palestine.
Now that's the only reasonable idea you've had yet.
linguoboy wrote:Wow, the Spanish must really care about protecting the Andalusian coastline!
linguoboy wrote:So where's the popular cry to annex Andorra?
mōdgethanc wrote:OH NO NOT THE DUNES
Ludwig Whitby wrote:If there is anything good that Greece and Turkey did in the 20th century it's the Treaty of Lausanne and the population transfer. I would say that they should have had another Treaty of Lausanne after the Cyprus war. Have all Greeks in Greece and all Turks in Turkey. With no possibilities for ethnic conflict, the hostilities will fade away eventually.
азъбукывѣдѣ wrote:Y'all know what's going to happen if I were to redraw some borders...
азъбукывѣдѣ wrote:Y'all know what's going to happen if I were to redraw some borders...
http://www.bulgarie.net/images/san-stefano-map.bmp
I already said that a) Belgium is Catholic and b) most Belgian Catholics don't care about their religion. I doubt the Netherlands is any different.You two seem to forget that catholicism is the biggest religion in the Netherlands: even though our king is from a calvinist house, there are more catholics (and even more people without a religion, but okay). Brabant and Limburg in the Netherlands have always been catholic, there have been a lot of catholic villages in the rest of the Netherlands and they got more children, that's why there are more catholics. But in Belgium the situation is slightly different because there the whole country is catholic (apart from the people without a religion, again).
I'm sure they do. What I'm doubting is whether it will improve anything for them.HoItalosPhilellên wrote:That's apparently what they want, or'd rather have.
Sol Invictus wrote:Ludwig Whitby wrote:If there is anything good that Greece and Turkey did in the 20th century it's the Treaty of Lausanne and the population transfer. I would say that they should have had another Treaty of Lausanne after the Cyprus war. Have all Greeks in Greece and all Turks in Turkey. With no possibilities for ethnic conflict, the hostilities will fade away eventually.
Yay to crimes against the humanity
mōdgethanc wrote:I already said that a) Belgium is Catholic and b) most Belgian Catholics don't care about their religion. I doubt the Netherlands is any different.You two seem to forget that catholicism is the biggest religion in the Netherlands: even though our king is from a calvinist house, there are more catholics (and even more people without a religion, but okay). Brabant and Limburg in the Netherlands have always been catholic, there have been a lot of catholic villages in the rest of the Netherlands and they got more children, that's why there are more catholics. But in Belgium the situation is slightly different because there the whole country is catholic (apart from the people without a religion, again).
Hoogstwaarschijnlijk wrote:@Ludwig Whitby: Read that novel by Louis de Bernières, Birds without wings. Seriously, that transfer was wrong. You can't and shouldn't tell people who have lived somewhere for centuries and centuries in peace with their neighbours that now they should move to another country, with the result that many of them die.
Ludwig Whitby wrote:Sol Invictus wrote:Ludwig Whitby wrote:If there is anything good that Greece and Turkey did in the 20th century it's the Treaty of Lausanne and the population transfer. I would say that they should have had another Treaty of Lausanne after the Cyprus war. Have all Greeks in Greece and all Turks in Turkey. With no possibilities for ethnic conflict, the hostilities will fade away eventually.
Yay to crimes against the humanity
Yay to helping people survive ethnic cleansing and avoiding genocide!
gomen wrote:Minor Asia Greeks who were forced to relocate to Greece were hated and ghetto-ised by Greeks. It took many generations for the stigma of "turk-born" to fade away. Just a trivia.
The thing is that population transfer is usually a part of, or precedes, ethnic cleansing and/or genocide. So it's not surprising it doesn't have the greatest reputation after the events of the 20th century (Armenian Genocide, Soviet famine, Holocaust, Yugoslav Wars, etc., etc.).Ludwig Whitby wrote:Yay to helping people survive ethnic cleansing and avoiding genocide!
mōdgethanc wrote:The thing is that population transfer is usually a part of, or precedes, ethnic cleansing and/or genocide. So it's not surprising it doesn't have the greatest reputation after the events of the 20th century (Armenian Genocide, Soviet famine, Holocaust, Yugoslav Wars, etc., etc.).Ludwig Whitby wrote:Yay to helping people survive ethnic cleansing and avoiding genocide!
Okay, bad example. A better one: Partition of India. That was a more or less voluntary population transfer where tons of people ended up dying, but maybe there would have been large-scale ethnic cleansing if they had stayed in their countries. We'll never know. Anyway, I agree with linguoboy that dividing people is sometimes necessary when they want to kill each other, but at some point they have to learn to get along, if only as neighbours.Ludwig Whitby wrote:Yeah, but the Yugoslav Wars didn't have a population transfer. That's the problem. The refugees didn't get the state support the Greeks and Turks got in the Lausanne treaty. It was obvious from day one of the war that ethnic cleansing is going to take place and it could have been done much more humanely. I even met a refugee who suddenly found herself in a foreign country that is supposed to be her motherland, without an ID card, money nor anything else other than the clothes that she wore and no possibility to come home in the near future. A treaty such as this would have at least granted her rights such as being able to go back and get all of her possessions and a new home (of around the same value as the one she left behind) and citizenship, not refugee status.
The Armenian genocide was one of the reasons for the Lausanne treaty, though. It's better to move people than let them be slaughtered. Srebrenica could have been avoided with a population transfer if you think about it.
Well of course. Greece and Turkey were not only neighbours, but best friends in the period from 1923 to WWII. hat made them enemies again was Cyprus and ethnic minorities that were left behind