Redrawing borders

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linguoboy
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Re: Redrawing borders

Postby linguoboy » 2013-08-20, 21:07

Levente.Maier wrote:
Marah wrote:So why do you want to tear Switzerland apart?

I like multilingual states but I still prefer the "one language one country thing".

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Re: Redrawing borders

Postby Levike » 2013-08-20, 21:14

You didn't have to be so expressive. :haha:

Sorry but I have this seemingly funny idea that every country should have ONE standard language
that everyone should know.
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Re: Redrawing borders

Postby gomen » 2013-08-20, 21:21

Yeah, break up Switzerland, possibly the only confederation that is that stable, but force Walloons to live with the French whom they hate, force Macedonians to live with the country they broke away from, and give Greece three new fully Turkish provinces when they can barely respect Greek Muslims. Not to mention that the Aegean coast of Turkey is Turkey's lifeline.

Yes, Alt History is basically a mental game , but have some sense of rationality. You want to start a dozen new wars in Eurasia in your imagination.

And in any way, EU's whole point and it's endgame is that no matter what country you live, your identity (national, religious, linguistic, political etc) is protected by supra-national laws, that internal borders will eventually be completely abolished, and as it's already the case, whenever in EU you find yourself, you play by the same terms as the "domestic" population.

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Re: Redrawing borders

Postby Ludwig Whitby » 2013-08-20, 21:24

Comments on prevoius posts:

Please, people leave Macedonia alone.

1. Everyone has the right to name himself, the citizens of that country chose the name Macedonia, not Skopje, let them have that right.
2. They are a nation of their own, a young nation, but a nation nontheless, with a language of their own (officially since 1945) and are brutally aware of the past attempts at serbification and bulgarization. So, no to any possible union with one of those two countries.

And another thing, what's with Bosnia and Herzegovina? If there is any country that would benefit from redrawn borders, that is it. Republika Srpska to Serbia (unofficial referendums put the number of Srpska citizens that want out of B&H to more than 90%) and the remains should be divided between Croatia and an independent Bosniak republic.

P.S. Kosovo to Albania, okay sure. But, Northern Kosovo to Serbia. Otherwise, you're looking at years of conflicts.

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Re: Redrawing borders

Postby linguoboy » 2013-08-20, 21:34

Levente.Maier wrote:Sorry but I have this seemingly funny idea that every country should have ONE standard language that everyone should know.

Unless you stomp out minority languages altogether and forbid immigration, you'll always have situations where citizens of a country have a mother language which is not the same as the official standard language. Why should their linguistic rights be ignored?
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Re: Redrawing borders

Postby Sol Invictus » 2013-08-20, 22:04

You can't go assigning territories to countries because they share same majority language, especially if you want stability - in many countries such territories form along the borders, so you'd need to redraw borders constantly to keep up with the trend

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Re: Redrawing borders

Postby Levike » 2013-08-20, 22:44

linguoboy wrote:Unless you stomp out minority languages altogether and forbid immigration, you'll always have situations where citizens of a country have a mother language which is not the same as the official standard language. Why should their linguistic rights be ignored?

Look I didn't say that everyone has to use only that single language.
But I believe that there must be one standard language that everyone should know.

I'm part of the Hungarian minority here in Transylvania
but I don't want Hungarian to be official, not even at a regional level.

Romanian as the sole official language is fine,
I don't feel that my linguistic rights are hurt in any way.
Last edited by Levike on 2013-08-20, 22:52, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Redrawing borders

Postby miae » 2013-08-20, 22:49

linguoboy wrote:Here's the sort of thing I'd do if I were dictator:

http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2012/ ... 4xfwyk.png
I don't know how Slovenian interests would be better defended in a country with Austrian majority. And what kind of language would we speak in this Noricum?

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Re: Redrawing borders

Postby Michael » 2013-08-20, 23:09

Ludwig Whitby wrote:Please, people leave Macedonia alone.

1. Everyone has the right to name himself, the citizens of that country chose the name Macedonia, not Skopje, let them have that right.
2. They are a nation of their own, a young nation, but a nation nontheless, with a language of their own (officially since 1945) and are brutally aware of the past attempts at serbification and bulgarization. So, no to any possible union with one of those two countries.

They should have every right to call it Македонија, in their own language, certainly, but in my little "wonderland", I'd like it to be known Scopian Republic in the English language at the least.

I still can't help but pity the poor people of the country every time I see this:
Image

We can all guess that "Aleksandar Veliki" probably spoke a language more related to "Macedonian" than to the ancient Greek dialects of his time, amirite? :rotfl:
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Re: Redrawing borders

Postby Yasna » 2013-08-20, 23:22

linguoboy wrote:My prescription as world dictator? Plebiscites for everyone what wants 'em.

That sounds like a recipe for chaos. Are you saying that if the residents of some Chinatown in America voted for that Chinatown to leave the United States and join the PRC, you would advocate respecting their choice?

"Geopolitical stability" is just another convenient excuse for perpetuating an unjust status quo.

It can be used in that way, but it needn't be.
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Re: Redrawing borders

Postby Ludwig Whitby » 2013-08-20, 23:40

HoItalosPhilellên wrote:
Ludwig Whitby wrote:Please, people leave Macedonia alone.

1. Everyone has the right to name himself, the citizens of that country chose the name Macedonia, not Skopje, let them have that right.
2. They are a nation of their own, a young nation, but a nation nontheless, with a language of their own (officially since 1945) and are brutally aware of the past attempts at serbification and bulgarization. So, no to any possible union with one of those two countries.

They should have every right to call it Македонија, in their own language, certainly, but in my little "wonderland", I'd like it to be known Scopian Republic in the English language at the least.

I still can't help but pity the poor people of the country every time I see this:
http://i.imgur.com/NvvNpPh.png

We can all guess that "Aleksandar Veliki" probably spoke a language more related to "Macedonian" than to the ancient Greek dialects of his time, amirite? :rotfl:

Yeah, they've got a weird view of history, but that doesn't mean you get to use a term they consider derogatory.

My advice: Rename the airport in Athens to Krste Misirkov Airport. Or even better Toshe Proeski airport. And claim they're all Greeks.

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Re: Redrawing borders

Postby Michael » 2013-08-20, 23:49

Ludwig Whitby wrote:My advice: Rename the airport in Athens to Krste Misirkov Airport. Or even better Toshe Proeski airport. And claim they're all Greeks.

I don't mean to sound intentionally offensive, but why in the world would the Greeks want or even need to do that? I think the Greeks should be rather honored and proud than angry, if any are, that this country looks up to one of many of its historical figures so much.
Last edited by Michael on 2013-08-20, 23:52, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Redrawing borders

Postby Ludwig Whitby » 2013-08-20, 23:51

HoItalosPhilellên wrote:
Ludwig Whitby wrote:My advice: Rename the airport in Athens to Krste Misirkov Airport. Or even better Toshe Proeski airport. And claim they're all Greeks.

I don't mean to sound intentionally offensive, but why in the world would the Greeks want or even need to do that?

To annoy the Macedonians. Isn't this whole naming dispute about annoying the Macedonians?

EDIT: Oh wait, what? You don't want to sound offensive? And you used the term Scopian two posts ago?

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Re: Redrawing borders

Postby Michael » 2013-08-21, 0:18

Ludwig Whitby wrote:To annoy the Macedonians. Isn't this whole naming dispute about annoying the Macedonians?

I think Greece would honestly care less about them wanting to be known as Macedonia in English and every other language except their own if they were just willing to acknowledge their true history and not attempt to propel a lie to the world.

EDIT: Oh wait, what? You don't want to sound offensive? And you used the term Scopian two posts ago?

Hence "Scopian" instead of "Skopjan".
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„Çdo njeri është peng i veprave të veta.‟
Every human being is hostage to their own deeds.

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Re: Redrawing borders

Postby Ludwig Whitby » 2013-08-21, 0:27

HoItalosPhilellên wrote:
EDIT: Oh wait, what? You don't want to sound offensive? And you used the term Scopian two posts ago?

Hence "Scopian" instead of "Skopjan".

Skopjan is an already existing English word meaning "Of, from, or pertaining to, Skopje", Skopje being the capital of Macedonia. Scopian (more commonly Skopian) is a derogatory term for ethnic Macedonians.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Skopian
http://www.topix.net/forum/world/macedo ... IS4R9IR77F
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdreNRwgUP0

etc...

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Re: Redrawing borders

Postby Yasna » 2013-08-21, 0:35

mōdgethanc wrote:
1. Falkland Islands returned to Argentina. Gibraltar returned to Spain.
The locals seem to disagree, so let the UK keep them.

Those tiny territories become huge strategic liabilities for the country sitting next to them if it at some point has less than amicable relations with the distant country in control of the tiny territory. It's a big strategic error to tolerate them unless it's absolutely necessary.

2. The island of Ireland reunited as one country independent from Great Britain.
That's going to cause [T]rouble.

In the short term, yes. In the long term it would be more stable.

3. Dravidian speaking South India becomes an independent country.
Don't see the point of that.

India is like an oversized company that is impossible to manage. It would benefit mostly everyone if the company could be broken down into more manageable pieces. And the north/south split is the obvious place to start.

9. North America united in some form.
Terrible idea. The USA is already dominant here - why formalize it?

Because a union would be stronger. Right now it seems completely unnecessary, but in the distant future North America might need all the strength it can get to fend off some foreign powers. Also, an aggressive and capable extra-regional power teaming up with Mexico would be a huge threat to the U.S..

12. North Africa is integrated into the E.U. (the vast majority of North Africa's population is found in Mediterranean cities that historically orient towards Europe).
Terrible idea. Those countries think of themselves as Arab, not European, and Europeans are already racist enough against them.

A close union would be impossible for the foreseeable future, but a loose one seems feasible. Europe should welcome the opportunity to end the incessant instability at its southern borders and North Africa should welcome a chance to escape the 800-years-and-counting Arab decline.

- North and South Korea should come up with a long-term plan for reunification.

Yes. I forgot about this one.
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Re: Redrawing borders

Postby Michael » 2013-08-21, 1:04

Ludwig Whitby wrote:Skopjan is an already existing English word. Scopian (more commonly Skopian) is a derogatory term for ethnic Macedonians.

Oh, I had no idea. I'd have thought that Skopjan would be the offensive term, or rather, spelling. I didn't know that (native) English speakers had any stereotypes about Macedonians. :shock:
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Re: Redrawing borders

Postby linguoboy » 2013-08-21, 1:27

HoItalosPhilellên wrote:
Ludwig Whitby wrote:To annoy the Macedonians. Isn't this whole naming dispute about annoying the Macedonians?

I think Greece would honestly care less about them wanting to be known as Macedonia in English and every other language except their own if they were just willing to acknowledge their true history and not attempt to propel a lie to the world.

Oh, the irony.
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Re: Redrawing borders

Postby linguoboy » 2013-08-21, 1:31

Yasna wrote:
linguoboy wrote:My prescription as world dictator? Plebiscites for everyone what wants 'em.

That sounds like a recipe for chaos.

It would if my iron dictatorial fist weren't at the ready to crush anyone who steps out of line.

Yasna wrote:Are you saying that if the residents of some Chinatown in America voted for that Chinatown to leave the United States and join the PRC, you would advocate respecting their choice?

Maybe if that were a serious threat, Chicago would do a better job of servicing and policing its own.
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Re: Redrawing borders

Postby Michael » 2013-08-21, 3:09

linguoboy wrote:
HoItalosPhilellên wrote:
Ludwig Whitby wrote:To annoy the Macedonians. Isn't this whole naming dispute about annoying the Macedonians?

I think Greece would honestly care less about them wanting to be known as Macedonia in English and every other language except their own if they were just willing to acknowledge their true history and not attempt to propel a lie to the world.

Oh, the irony.

How so, exactly? Please point it all out to me.
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„Çdo njeri është peng i veprave të veta.‟
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