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Yasna wrote:I'm happy that Zimmerman was found not guilty. Lots of people determined Zimmerman was a racist murderer before they even knew the facts of the case. But the facts did not bear that out.
johnklepac wrote:Yasna wrote:I'm happy that Zimmerman was found not guilty. Lots of people determined Zimmerman was a racist murderer before they even knew the facts of the case. But the facts did not bear that out.
I am, too.
linguoboy wrote:I'm happy not to count either of you among my friends. But I'm more happy to have Ta-Nehisi Coates around to offer his perspective. I guess it's a lucky thing he didn't grow up in Florida or somewhere else with a "stand your ground" law.
Yasna wrote:linguoboy wrote:I'm happy not to count either of you among my friends. But I'm more happy to have Ta-Nehisi Coates around to offer his perspective. I guess it's a lucky thing he didn't grow up in Florida or somewhere else with a "stand your ground" law.
Well that's a bizarre reaction to what I said. I suppose you think that a racist jury let off the hook a racist murderer who was being defended by racist lawyers, all playing their part in perpetuating an inherently racist system.
mōdgethanc wrote:I'm happy to live in a country where nobody gives a shit about the outcome of the Zimmerman case because we're not collectively obsessed with race issues and gun rights.
Johanna wrote:That was in Florida right?
So, in that state you can shoot someone you don't know to death, just because you thought that the person looked suspicious, and get away with it, but you if you fire a few warning shots against someone you know to be violent (but no harm whatsoever comes to that person), you get 20 years in jail?
Is it just me who think this reeks of race and gender issues? White guy killing a black guy = gets off the hook, black woman warning her man to stop = 20 fucking years in jail.
linguoboy wrote:Think what you will. Being "happy" about the verdict is what I find pretty bizarre.
Like Coates, I think there simply wasn't enough evidence to convict him and I don't see that as a cause for joy unless you really like the idea of self-appointed vigilantes shooting their unarmed neighbours to death at will. But if that does appeal to you, consider moving to one of the states where that is now legal.
Yasna wrote:I'm happy that Zimmerman was found not guilty. Lots of people determined Zimmerman was a racist murderer before they even knew the facts of the case. But the facts did not bear that out.
I think there was more to it than looking suspicious, but whatever, fuck facts, right?Johanna wrote:So, in that state you can shoot someone you don't know to death, just because you thought that the person looked suspicious, and get away with it
Is it just me who think this reeks of race and gender issues? White guy killing a black guy = gets off the hook, black woman warning her man to stop = 20 fucking years in jail.
johntm wrote:Is there proof Zimmerman was racist?
linguoboy wrote:johntm wrote:Is there proof Zimmerman was racist?
What evidence would you accept as proof?
Great, but there's absolutely no evidence that he was racist, so people need to stop saying that he is. It's one thing to say "I think George Zimmerman is racist", that's an opinion, but I've seen a lot of people acting like and saying it was racist. Yeah, and the lizard people teamed up with the Nazis to make evil plots in their base on the dark side of the moon. I've seen the same amount of evidence for both.Johanna wrote:You can be the opposite of racist and still instinctively see a young black guy as threatening, or at last suspicious, in situations where you don't see young guys of other races as that though...
He didn't just feel threatened, he was getting his head slammed into concrete while Trayvon straddled him. And most self-defense laws here say lethal force is allowed if a person has reasonable fear for their life. That, of course, is where the real debate in this thing starts--the paucity of evidence (and the fact that there's only one person alive who can say exactly what happened and it's in his best interest to spin it at least a little) combined with the fact that there's an intended gray area in the law means it'll always be a debate.In Sweden, in order for self-defense to actually be self-defense you can't kill anyone just because you feel threatened, you have to be certain the other person can hurt you, like you seeing him or her holding a gun and aiming at you. So Zimmerman would have been sent to jail for manslaughter for a decade or so (minus the usual 1/3 on probation, so 6-7 years in jail and 3-4 on probation).
And firing a few warning shots will definitely not mean 20 years in prison, but more like 1 (or even more likely: 1 year with an anklet), "for unlawful firing of gun within a 'living area'".
linguoboy wrote:Think what you will. Being "happy" about the verdict is what I find pretty bizarre. Like Coates, I think there simply wasn't enough evidence to convict him and I don't see that as a cause for joy unless you really like the idea of self-appointed vigilantes shooting their unarmed neighbours to death at will. But if that does appeal to you, consider moving to one of the states where that is now legal.
Johanna wrote:you have to be certain the other person can hurt you, like you seeing him or her holding a gun and aiming at you. So Zimmerman would have been sent to jail for manslaughter.
Johanna wrote:And firing a few warning shots will definitely not mean 20 years in prison, but more like 1 (or even more likely: 1 year with an anklet), "for unlawful firing of gun within a 'living area'".
Johanna wrote:You can be the opposite of racist and still instinctively see a young black guy as threatening, or at last suspicious, in situations where you don't see young guys of other races as that though...
It's all about stereotypes and how media depicts things, and whether or not you like it, you will pick it up from a young age, which means it will be at your core and you can't really tell that it's there unless you really think about it.
Car wrote:About Zimmerman: It's funny (or rather sad) how the trial wasn't that much covered here in Germany and consequently, didn't receive much attention, but people harshly criticised its outcome anyway.
johntm wrote:linguoboy wrote:johntm wrote:Is there proof Zimmerman was racist?
What evidence would you accept as proof?
Something halfway convincing?
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