Moderator: Forum Administrators
IpseDixit wrote:Lur wrote:Your ancestors and you had some specific boring religion so certain land is for you, even though you were living somewhere else. Yeah, makes perfect sense.
Judaism is not just a religion. They consider themselves a people, just like the French, the Russians and any other people. A person is still Jewish even though he/she is 100% atheist.
Lur wrote:IpseDixit wrote:Lur wrote:Your ancestors and you had some specific boring religion so certain land is for you, even though you were living somewhere else. Yeah, makes perfect sense.
Judaism is not just a religion. They consider themselves a people, just like the French, the Russians and any other people. A person is still Jewish even though he/she is 100% atheist.
But they, as a "people", they did not speak their language natively anymore, but Aramaic and later others around the world (even from other language families!), they lived in widly different places which is a problem for the "people" thing, and I may be ignorant on the matter but I think we're left with the religion thing pretty much.
Marah wrote:Aren't the Palestinians descendants of the Jews that used to live there anyway?
It sure would. But since countries have them and aren't going to give them up, we should focus on lowering their number and ensuring strict measures against this kind of thing happening again (it was really just poor communication).JackFrost wrote:Let's not pretend the missiles aren't run and kept in check by a flawless system. So yeah, maybe it would be even better if the world don't have them at all.
Yes, you do. And that's exactly what the USA and USSR did. They got tired of living in fear and found a way to live together. And then their shitty economy collapsed but that's a different story.IpseDixit wrote:Ok, but then you will have to find a solution to actually end this new cold war.
I didn't mean the Palestinians should have nuclear weapons. If Iran and other countries in the neighbourhood had them, Israel would behave itself and so would they. They might make idle threats, but they wouldn't go to war because even the Iranian clerics aren't quite that nuts.Moreover, the threat of a nuclear attack shouldn't really scare Palestinians because for Israel it would be like nuking itself, furthermore some of the holiest places of Judaism are in the West Bank.
Yeah okay people should give up their cherished identities because some Spaniard on the Internet said so.Lur wrote:It'd be interesting if people there stopped being Jewish and Muslim and brought some common sense to the table.
You really are ignorant on the matter if you think ethnicity = language or = geography. Jews everywhere saw themselves as the same ethnic group with a shared history and culture. That's good enough for every other ethnic group, so it should be good enough for them too.But they, as a "people", they did not speak their language natively anymore, but Aramaic and later others around the world (even from other language families!), they lived in widly different places which is a problem for the "people" thing, and I may be ignorant on the matter but I think we're left with the religion thing pretty much.
Luckily for you, it's not. It's the state of the Jewish people, not the Jewish religion. (And not just Jewish people - other people are allowed to live there too.) I don't hear anyone complaining that Italy is the Italian state or Japan is the Japanese state, but Israel gets singled out because it's trendy to hate it.And I don't like centering states around religions. Much less if it's the one that started this Levantine monotheism craze.
mōdgethanc wrote:The settlers are the main reason the Palestinians in the West Bank are so angry about the occupation, or one of them. Israel should really stop encouraging them and adopt a "settle at your own risk" policy.
Because they're human beings and they deserve better than to live in a garrison state?IpseDixit wrote:Terrorist attacks are becoming very difficult to carry out owing to the wall and check points. Hence why should Israel take their anger and frustration seriously?
mōdgethanc wrote:Because they're human beings and they deserve better than to live in a garrison state?IpseDixit wrote:Terrorist attacks are becoming very difficult to carry out owing to the wall and check points. Hence why should Israel take their anger and frustration seriously?
I don't know, some say they might be the descendants of the Philistines, others say they are Arabs who invaded the land much later.
I've heard that Ben Gurion thought Palestinians had some link to the Jews of the second temple. I don't know how many Zionists shared this idea of his.
Marah wrote:I don't know, some say they might be the descendants of the Philistines, others say they are Arabs who invaded the land much later.
I've heard that Ben Gurion thought Palestinians had some link to the Jews of the second temple. I don't know how many Zionists shared this idea of his.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Invent ... ish_People
Have you heard of it? It's quite interesting.
mōdgethanc wrote:Yeah okay people should give up their cherished identities because some Spaniard on the Internet said so.Lur wrote:It'd be interesting if people there stopped being Jewish and Muslim and brought some common sense to the table.
You really are ignorant on the matter if you think ethnicity = language or = geography. Jews everywhere saw themselves as the same ethnic group with a shared history and culture. That's good enough for every other ethnic group, so it should be good enough for them too.But they, as a "people", they did not speak their language natively anymore, but Aramaic and later others around the world (even from other language families!), they lived in widly different places which is a problem for the "people" thing, and I may be ignorant on the matter but I think we're left with the religion thing pretty much.
Luckily for you, it's not. It's the state of the Jewish people, not the Jewish religion.And I don't like centering states around religions. Much less if it's the one that started this Levantine monotheism craze.
Lur wrote:Being Muslim or Jewish is an identity?
Lur wrote:I don't know, when your "people" are dying for no reason and people are enforcing dubious morals and indoctrinating children in the name of your "identity", your identity can go fuck itself.
IpseDixit wrote:Well, this is barely the case of Israel. Most of the Israelis are secular. The Bible for most of them is like the book that narrates their history. Their morals is as liberal as the one of many of us westerners. Plus, you mustn't know the Jews really well if you really believe they would ever give up their tradition. They'd rather die.
Muslims, yeah, I think they are a bit more indoctrinated. But in my opinion it is not because of their religion per se (I've never read the Quran but I think it can't be worse than the Old Testament). It is just because they decided to interpret it in a fanatic way.
IpseDixit wrote:Why not? Whether one likes it or not the religion of your people is part of your identity. I'm not Catholic, but I think that Catholicism will always be somewhat part of my identity and culture, in spite of the fact that there are a few things I do not really like about that religion.
Set wrote:Apart from your extremely prejudiced generalisations of two rather large culture groups based on absolutely no facts...no.
Return to “Politics and Religion”
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest