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Re: Ethnocentrism in foreign news coverage

Posted: 2013-07-13, 10:44
by Marah
I must second IpseDixit. Here as well they focus on Syria. It's been a while since I've heard of Israel and Palestine on television.

Re: Ethnocentrism in foreign news coverage

Posted: 2013-07-13, 10:57
by IpseDixit
It's funny. I had the opportunity to talk both with Israelis and Arabs.

When you talk with an Israeli, it's very likely they will tell you that the international media are against them, that they cover every single thing that Israel does and on the contrary, they (the media) say nothing about what Palestinians and Arabs in general do.

When you talk with an Arab instead, they will tell you that the media deliberately ignore Palestine, that they turn a blind eye to what Israel is doing and so on and so forth.

I think that in a way they are both right. I rarely hear any news from either side!

Re: Ethnocentrism in foreign news coverage

Posted: 2013-07-13, 11:12
by IpseDixit
mōdgethanc wrote: minus the whole West Bank fiasco


I think Israel without the West Bank won't survive long. How can a country which is 14 km wide in some points, and overlooked by the West Bank survive the immense Arab world?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2hZ6SlSqq0

Re: Ethnocentrism in foreign news coverage

Posted: 2013-07-13, 12:02
by Marah
How can a country which is 14 km wide in some points, and overlooked by the West Bank survive the immense Arab world?

Nuclear weapons are a good way to protect your country.

Re: Ethnocentrism in foreign news coverage

Posted: 2013-07-13, 12:24
by IpseDixit
Marah wrote:
How can a country which is 14 km wide in some points, and overlooked by the West Bank survive the immense Arab world?

Nuclear weapons are a good way to protect your country.


Yes but their enemy are going to have nuclear weapons too, and nuking the West Bank would be suicide...

Re: Ethnocentrism in foreign news coverage

Posted: 2013-07-13, 14:15
by Set
You shouldn't consider the 'Arab world' as one unified entity. And you seem to be forgetting that Israel is America's closest ally which makes any uninformed discussion of the threat that Palestinians and their Arab brethren pose a moot point.

Re: Ethnocentrism in foreign news coverage

Posted: 2013-07-13, 15:00
by IpseDixit
Set wrote:You shouldn't consider the 'Arab world' as one unified entity. And you seem to be forgetting that Israel is America's closest ally which makes any uninformed discussion of the threat that Palestinians and their Arab brethren pose a moot point.


The USA hasn't always been Israel's ally, and I do not see any reason why the alliance between those two countries should be ever-lasting. So thinking that the USA will always be there for Israel is a bit optimistic I guess (or pessimistic, depending on the standpoint).

The American Intelligence Community has also written a paper entitled "Preparing for a post-Israel Middle East." I'm not saying this will necessarily happen (in fact I think it won't) but I also think this says a lot. The USA seems quite adamant in supporting Israel right now, but will things always be that way?

And you are right, the Arab world is not a unified front, my bad. But nonetheless I'm pretty sure Palestine will receive a lot of help from many Arab/Muslim countries (and whatnot) which will arm her.

So if I were Israel, I wouldn't see any compelling reason to withdraw from the West Bank, and I wouldn't define the occupation a fiasco. Ever since they built the wall and the check-points, terrorist attacks have plummeted, their borders are safer, and they have more land and natural resources at their disposal.

The only two things that could make them change their mind are a very pressing boycott worldwide and the USA not vetoing the sanctions for the occupation anymore; but since these two menaces seem far away, Israel really has no reason to end the occupation. Quite the opposite, she has many reasons to keep it up.

And please note that I'm not talking in terms of morally just or wrong, just in terms of convenience for Israel.

Re: Ethnocentrism in foreign news coverage

Posted: 2013-07-13, 16:28
by Marah
Yes but their enemy are going to have nuclear weapons too, and nuking the West Bank would be suicide...

Doesn't that remind you of the cold war between Russia and the United States? It's what they call Mutual Assured Destruction.

Re: Ethnocentrism in foreign news coverage

Posted: 2013-07-13, 16:42
by IpseDixit
Marah wrote:
Yes but their enemy are going to have nuclear weapons too, and nuking the West Bank would be suicide...

Doesn't that remind you of the cold war between Russia and the United States? It's what they call Mutual Assured Destruction.


Well, an eternal Middle Eastern cold war doesn't look like much of a solution to me. I think nowadays' occupation is much better if that has to be the solution.

Re: Ethnocentrism in foreign news coverage

Posted: 2013-07-13, 18:00
by mōdgethanc
Marah wrote:Doesn't that remind you of the cold war between Russia and the United States? It's what they call Mutual Assured Destruction.
And neither side ever dared attack each other for that very reason. So why's it a bad thing?

Re: Ethnocentrism in foreign news coverage

Posted: 2013-07-13, 18:04
by IpseDixit
mōdgethanc wrote: So why's it a bad thing?


Seriously?

Do you think that living in constant fear of a nuclear attack is good?

Re: Ethnocentrism in foreign news coverage

Posted: 2013-07-13, 18:39
by Marah
The thing is, it's not so likely to happen since it would basically mean they are committing suicide. They're not that crazy.

Re: Ethnocentrism in foreign news coverage

Posted: 2013-07-13, 18:41
by mōdgethanc
IpseDixit wrote:Seriously?

Do you think that living in constant fear of a nuclear attack is good?

No, I didn't say that. But it's better than actually going to war, which is what would happen without it.

Re: Ethnocentrism in foreign news coverage

Posted: 2013-07-13, 19:23
by JackFrost
Let's not pretend the missiles aren't run and kept in check by a flawless system. So yeah, maybe it would be even better if the world don't have them at all.

Re: Ethnocentrism in foreign news coverage

Posted: 2013-07-13, 19:37
by Car
Marah wrote:I must second IpseDixit. Here as well they focus on Syria. It's been a while since I've heard of Israel and Palestine on television.


It's the same here in Germany, and even Syria managed to disappear from the news from time to time. There's been far more about Israel in the news in the past.

Re: Ethnocentrism in foreign news coverage

Posted: 2013-07-13, 20:01
by IpseDixit
mōdgethanc wrote:
IpseDixit wrote:Seriously?

Do you think that living in constant fear of a nuclear attack is good?

No, I didn't say that. But it's better than actually going to war, which is what would happen without it.


Ok, but then you will have to find a solution to actually end this new cold war.

Moreover, the threat of a nuclear attack shouldn't really scare Palestinians because for Israel it would be like nuking itself, furthermore some of the holiest places of Judaism are in the West Bank.

Hence I really think this is not something that will impede a normal non nuclear war between the two nations.

Re: Ethnocentrism in foreign news coverage

Posted: 2013-07-14, 15:43
by Lur
It'd be interesting if people there stopped being Jewish and Muslim and brought some common sense to the table.

Re: Ethnocentrism in foreign news coverage

Posted: 2013-07-14, 15:58
by IpseDixit
Lur wrote:It'd be interesting if people there stopped being Jewish and Muslim and brought some common sense to the table.


The Jews want to have a home they can call their own after centuries of suffering that culminated in the Holocaust. And Israel is their historical land.

The Palestinians (it is not 100% correct to say Muslims since some Palestinians are Christian) want to take back the land that the Jews have stolen (at least from their viewpoint).

So yep, I think they're already using common sense. :silly:

Re: Ethnocentrism in foreign news coverage

Posted: 2013-07-14, 17:06
by Lur
Your ancestors and you had some specific boring religion so certain land is for you, even though you were living somewhere else. Yeah, makes perfect sense.

Re: Ethnocentrism in foreign news coverage

Posted: 2013-07-14, 17:18
by IpseDixit
Lur wrote:Your ancestors and you had some specific boring religion so certain land is for you, even though you were living somewhere else. Yeah, makes perfect sense.


Judaism is not just a religion. They consider themselves a people, just like the French, the Russians and any other people. A person is still Jewish even though he/she is 100% atheist.

To me it makes some sense inasmuch as they have always been persecuted everywhere they lived.

By that I'm not denying that Palestinians' position make sense too.