Will the Euro collapse in 2012?

[Leviwosc]

I guess there's not much explanation needed. There's a chance that the Euro will collapse this year.

There are diverse reasons why the Euro might collapse. I won't name them, since I know several of you folks have extremely sensitive toes and I might crush them. Although I love to provoke people a bit. So I won't start about the Garlic Belt, not paying taxes, corruption, lying, cheating, stealing, breaking promises, etc.

I'm curious why you think the Euro would collapse or won't collapse. There are several reasons to assume the Euro won't collapse, but on the other hand there are also reasons to assume it could happen.

I suggest that on 1 January 2013 the losers buy drinks for the winners. Perhaps you'll have to pay in your 'old' currency again.

[Ludwig Whitby]

Man you really hold a grudge against the Southerners.

It won't collapse this year, perhaps in the near future. But anyway, I don't think that you can really predict the exact day things like this will happen. It's like the collapse of Soviet Union or Yugoslavia; everyone in the 80s knew it's bound to happen, but nobody knew when.

[Johanna]

It's not like the countries in the north-western corner of continental Europe are innocent in this whole mess, making it all possible by lending money to countries like banks lent money to people until a few years ago, and we all know how that latter thing turned out.

Not to mention that the "help" they give means lending even more money to those countries

[loqu]

Man you really hold a grudge against the Southerners.

Yep. Some Southerner hurt his ass or sth.

No, the Euro won't collapse in 2012. And speaking of losers and winners is dreadful, but then again, it's just Ron speaking about politics.

[Ludwig Whitby]

Not to mention how annoying it sounds. The Southern countries are on the verge of bankruptcy, people are losing their jobs, strikes, protests and rioting all over the country, Greece has gone bust and so on. What's happened in Northern Europe? Nothing much, they went from ''filthy rich'' to ''somewhat less filthy rich''.

Ron, honestly, you sound like a spoiled brat.

[JackFrost]

Well, if the euro falls apart, the Netherlands will certainly be feeling the nasty bite in its ass. You'd be deluding yourself if it will sail swimmingly though a collapse of the world's second largest currency.

I'm not even going to guess when it will happen because the worst scenario, a complete collapse, might not happen. Maybe some members will leave the currency union whereas the "core" could keep it together, pull it out of the mess, reform it, and be more strict readmitting former members/admitting new members (most especially to respect this agreement to every line).

[Kenny]

I don't think it will in the next year or two. The EU will give its best trying to prevent that from happening. I sure as hell don't want it to collapse while I'm in France...(until January 2013).

[Saim]

Did not even Leiwosc vote yes?

[Leviwosc]

Nope, I don't expect the Euro to fall, it's too expensive to let the euro fall. So I voted 'no'. I expected that someone would vote 'yes', though.

For your guys information. I don't hate southerners I fancy men from the south. All I dislike is the politics according economics in the southern nations of the union and the fact that this cost me money. Besides that I love the southerners.

[Ludwig Whitby]

Oh no! A rich Westerner has lost some money!!!!! What ever shall we do?????

Your hate is quite disproportionate to the effect those policies had on your life.

[Reinder]

the fact that this cost me money.

This sounds a little miserly when you say it like this. We have to help each other out in this world, that's how it works for me. So if the Southerns need money, we need to be the ones who pay this, since we live in a rich country.

[Ludwig Whitby]

the fact that this cost me money.

This sounds a little miserly when you say it like this. We have to help each other out in this world, that's how it works for me. So if the Southerns need money, we need to be the ones who pay this, since we live in a rich country.

That's what EU does. Even if there were no crisis, rich EU regions would give a lot of money to poor EU regions to help them develop. Which means that EU is always costing you money, Leviwosc.

[Leviwosc]

Oh no! A rich Westerner has lost some money!!!!! What ever shall we do?????

Your hate is quite disproportionate to the effect those policies had on your life.

Rich? Some money? Apparently you know my finances better than I do.

Do you know what effects it had on my life? I can't remember I told you.

the fact that this cost me money.

This sounds a little miserly when you say it like this. We have to help each other out in this world, that's how it works for me. So if the Southerns need money, we need to be the ones who pay this, since we live in a rich country.

Reinder with all respect, but you're quite naive here.

I guess you've missed the political discussions of the recent months here. But there are people who have to visit food banks! Do you have any idea what it means to someone if he has to go to a food bank? If he can't feed his children any more by himself? Friends of mine have to go to food banks! Others lost their job and had to accept lousier ones.

The people of the Netherlands do pay for this crisis, together with the Germans and other peoples. These people are losing more and more because the southern nations have spent more money the last decades than they actually had!

I don't want my friends, nor myself to bleed for the mistakes done by others! I always do everything to pay my bills and to keep my administration up to date! And now my fellow countrymen, my friends and I are suffering because the banks and the politicians in the south fucked up big time!

That's what EU does. Even if there were no crisis, rich EU regions would give a lot of money to poor EU regions to help them develop. Which means that EU is always costing you money, Leviwosc.

I know that, I don't even mind that. I'm happy to help other people. Perhaps I can illustrate it like this, I have the idea you guys don't understand me.

If someone asks me whether I can spare him 10 euros, than that's no problem. Perhaps I'll get it back, if it's a friend it's not even necessary. But if this person keeps coming back more often and doesn't ask for 10 euros any more but for 20 euros, it starts to become an issue. This is what's happening right now in Europe and I don't like that! Certainly because this whole situation could be avoided if your governments and your banks would have followed the rules, wouldn't have spent more than they actually had to spend.

Is my anger so strange to you? Am I so messed up that I'm the only one who dislikes that his plans are ruined by a bunch of lazy southern governments and banks who messed up and don't give a f*** about it?

[Saim]

These people are losing more and more because the southern nations have spent more money the last decades than they actually had!

And who lent the Southern nations this money? Why do you think the North is bothering to do anything about it? It's not 100% altruistic, certainly.

And now my fellow countrymen, my friends and I are suffering because the banks and the politicians in the south fucked up big time!

The entire system was fucked, not just the South.

[Ludwig Whitby]

You have to suffer because there are people in the South who are suffering much more than you because politicians and banks (in both South and North and EU and USA and pretty much everywhere, this is after all a global financial crisis we're having) have screwed up big time.

As far as people losing their jobs, that's a bummer really. But the Netherlands is a welfare state that gives money to unemployed people. That's less than they would get with a job, but it's substantially more than the average salary in Serbia, so spare me the sad stories please.

[Leviwosc]

These people are losing more and more because the southern nations have spent more money the last decades than they actually had!

And who lent the Southern nations this money? Why do you think the North is bothering to do anything about it? It's not 100% altruistic, certainly.

You're 100% right about this. Our government and banks have been stupid too, we could've known and should have known that if a crisis would appear that we wouldn't get a penny back!

But we all know that Greece for example lied to us about their financial situation to receive higher loans. The northern banks and governments were too stupid to not check this. We were so naive to believe the Greeks would be honest.

And now my fellow countrymen, my friends and I are suffering because the banks and the politicians in the south fucked up big time!

The entire system was fucked, not just the South.

Yep, that's the idea of a global crisis.

Unfortunately you can only find the leaks in the tin roof when it rains.

[Reinder]

I guess you've missed the political discussions of the recent months here. But there are people who have to visit food banks! Do you have any idea what it means to someone if he has to go to a food bank? If he can't feed his children any more by himself? Friends of mine have to go to food banks! Others lost their job and had to accept lousier ones.

The people of the Netherlands do pay for this crisis, together with the Germans and other peoples. These people are losing more and more because the southern nations have spent more money the last decades than they actually had!

I don't want my friends, nor myself to bleed for the mistakes done by others! I always do everything to pay my bills and to keep my administration up to date! And now my fellow countrymen, my friends and I are suffering because the banks and the politicians in the south fucked up big time!

Of course I heard about this, and of course it's worse than it was before. It's a financial crisis, what would you expect it to be, better? The people who have less will even have less than less.

A lot of Southerns are having a worse time than your friends visiting the food bank. And what can the Southerns do about their government spending money they didn't have? What can we do about it when Mark Rutte wants to give bonuses to rich people who lead a bank? I think you should think about the civilians and not about the government.

We have a good life in the Netherlands and I feel like we should make it possible for others to have such life as well!

[Saim]

The northern banks and governments were too stupid to not check this. We were so naive to believe the Greeks would be honest.

Too stupid or too greedy?

And now my fellow countrymen, my friends and I are suffering because the banks and the politicians in the south fucked up big time!

The entire system was fucked, not just the South.

Yep, that's the idea of a global crisis. [/quote]
Exactly, so what do you propose as a solution? I hope you're not in favour of more "austerity"?

[Lur]

This "austerity" means keep doing the same thing that has been done for a while. You make up a crisis, win money, fault of the crisis to the people who have done nothing, abolish their rights and take their money.

As far as people losing their jobs, that's a bummer really. But the Netherlands is a welfare state that gives money to unemployed people. That's less than they would get with a job, but it's substantially more than the average salary in Serbia, so spare me the sad stories please.

Here the government's view is that the people who receive that money (which is a very low amount) are leeches that live like kings with it and thus don't bother to find a job. (??????)

[JackFrost]

Yes, the Greek may have lied to us, but remember that other countries did not. Spain for example was rather in good shape before the crisis. Its budget had either surpluses or low deficits... Its debt ratio was low and is still relatively low among many other eurozone members including Germany, France, the Netherlands, etc. So, we cannot accuse the Spaniards of being feckless. Same for the Ireland and Iceland and yet, Portugal and Italy aren't a surprise really.

Also, it's costing me as well because the bailout packages are partially funded by the IMF, which is a pool of last-resort fund contributed by all countries around the world like the US, Canada, Japan, Australia, etc. I don't complain about it if it'll end with a return to stability and further growth so we all thrive to have an equal standard of living. I can't blame the Greeks for wanting to live like the richer countries, so I guess we have ourselves to blame somewhat for setting an example of high standard of living.