Illegal immigration problems and solutions

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linguoboy
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Re: Illegal immigration problems and solutions

Postby linguoboy » 2012-03-26, 20:41

Bao wrote:
hlysnan wrote:There is a demand and supply.

So what, do you believe, will happen when you try to cut the supply?

They'll be forced to hire Australian citizens--and at higher wages!
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Re: Illegal immigration problems and solutions

Postby hlysnan » 2012-03-26, 23:32

Tenebrarum wrote:Why don't people thinking like you all get born in poop-hole countries like Afghanistan... We'll see what attitude you would adopt living such a life.

The job of country leaders is to represent the interests of their constituents. Illegal immigrants are not in the interest of the majority of Australians, which is the main reason why John Howard was voted in, in 2001 and 2004. "We will decide who comes to this country and the circumstances in which they come."

http://museumvictoria.com.au/immigratio ... ch-speech/

linguoboy wrote:Really? The statistics I can find rank it fifth from the bottom in a field of thirteen. Where are the ones you found which put in at the top?

Note the figures for the other countries are 2010 and Nauru's figure is from 2005. Also, GDP doesn't include foreign aid, which would boost Nauru's revenue per capita by $2200. It also doesn't include existing infrastructure

Using 2009 figures for GDP, it would push it ahead of Kiribati to reach 5th place from the top at around $7500 if you include foreign aid.
http://data.un.org/CountryProfile.aspx?crName=Nauru

linguoboy wrote:It's actually even worse than that: Nauru has no military at all, just a small police force. It relies entirely on Australia for its defence. So it's pretty disingenuous to talk of them "wanting" to accept an offer they can't refuse.

It was Nauru who made the offer this time, not Australia. Australia's detention centre in Nauru has been closed since 2008, and it's the current government's policy to keep it closed.

linguoboy wrote:I think his point is: If they are asylum-seekers, why didn't they seek asylum in Indonesia (or any of the other countries they passed through after leaving the jurisdiction where they suffered persecution)?

Yep.

linguoboy wrote:They'll be forced to hire Australian citizens--and at higher wages!

Yes!

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Re: Illegal immigration problems and solutions

Postby Tenebrarum » 2012-03-27, 4:06

hlysnan wrote:
Tenebrarum wrote:Why don't people thinking like you all get born in poop-hole countries like Afghanistan... We'll see what attitude you would adopt living such a life.

The job of country leaders is to represent the interests of their constituents. Illegal immigrants are not in the interest of the majority of Australians, which is the main reason why John Howard was voted in, in 2001 and 2004. "We will decide who comes to this country and the circumstances in which they come."

That does nothing to explain why you think like an asshole. I'm curious to know what deep-seated insecurity that lurks in your heart, because otherwise you sound like a sane person.

It's not about politics, really, just whether you're able to sympathise with your fellow human beings or not, even though they come from environments radically different from yours.
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Re: Illegal immigration problems and solutions

Postby loqu » 2012-03-27, 6:14

Tenebrarum wrote:It's not about politics, really, just whether you're able to sympathise with your fellow human beings or not, even though they come from environments radically different from yours.

They're not human beings, silly. Human beings are white.
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Re: Illegal immigration problems and solutions

Postby Bryon » 2012-03-27, 8:08

loqu wrote:
Tenebrarum wrote:It's not about politics, really, just whether you're able to sympathise with your fellow human beings or not, even though they come from environments radically different from yours.

They're not human beings, silly. Human beings are white.

You are so right! How dare these brown people come into our countries? Australia and the USA may have been founded on immigration, but this is our land now! White, Christian countries, just the way Jesus intended.

Look around. Homosexuals wanting rights, desegregation, Mexicans coming and taking the jobs nobody else would take anyway. Where will it all end? :cry:
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Re: Illegal immigration problems and solutions

Postby Oleksij » 2012-03-27, 10:55

hlysnan wrote:"We will decide who comes to this country and the circumstances in which they come."

Usual political demagogy. Borders and immigration controls have existed worldwide systematically for less than a century.
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Re: Illegal immigration problems and solutions

Postby Saim » 2012-03-27, 11:36

hlysnan wrote:
Tenebrarum wrote:Why don't people thinking like you all get born in poop-hole countries like Afghanistan... We'll see what attitude you would adopt living such a life.

The job of country leaders is to represent the interests of their constituents. Illegal immigrants are not in the interest of the majority of Australians, which is the main reason why John Howard was voted in, in 2001 and 2004. "We will decide who comes to this country and the circumstances in which they come."

http://museumvictoria.com.au/immigratio ... ch-speech/

Nope. When have you ever heard anyone complain about British visa over-stayers? The main discussion is about refugees who come by boat, who happen to be mostly Asian and mostly legitimate asylum seekers. It's totally a race issue.

linguoboy wrote:
Saim wrote:So... that makes them all economic migrants? Wut?

I think his point is: If they are asylum-seekers, why didn't they seek asylum in Indonesia (or any of the other countries they passed through after leaving the jurisdiction where they suffered persecution)?

Personally I agree with the researchers at the Forced Migration Studies Programme in Witwatersrand when they point up a "false dichotomy" between economic migrants and other sorts of "forced migrants", so I don't consider the distinction particularly relevant. But there are people who do and, if you're one of them, it is a legitimate question to ask.

To answer that I'd say: how does Indonesia treat its refugees? And how is it a false dichotomy?

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Re: Illegal immigration problems and solutions

Postby Ludwig Whitby » 2012-03-27, 12:01

What is so incredibly wrong with wanting Bad Things to remain in the Other Reality? ''Other Reality'' being outside of our borders (out of sight - out of mind) and ''Bad Things'' being poverty, persecution, malnourishment, lack of opportunities, choice and possibilities and everything else that makes people become illegal immigrants. If we allow such people to stay we will see Bad Things in our own reality, those people are often uneducated or even illiterate, poor, they might venture into crime and be persecuted yet again, they won't have the same opportunities as the rest of the people, they'd be discriminated against etc...

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Re: Illegal immigration problems and solutions

Postby Tenebrarum » 2012-03-27, 12:39

Because no country exists in a vacuum. Bad Things won't simply stay in the Other Reality. They will reach Your Reality, and you will see them and your police force will become a part of them, regardless of what you do.

No, actually, Bad Things have been there all along, well before any "illegal" alien comes to your world. The immigrants' Bad Things are just more acute.

So you might as well wish your "illegal" fellow human beings luck, and leave them alone if they don't seek to harm you.
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Re: Illegal immigration problems and solutions

Postby Oleksij » 2012-03-27, 17:00

Tenebrarum wrote:Because no country exists in a vacuum. Bad Things won't simply stay in the Other Reality. They will reach Your Reality, and you will see them and your police force will become a part of them, regardless of what you do.

No, actually, Bad Things have been there all along, well before any "illegal" alien comes to your world. The immigrants' Bad Things are just more acute.

So you might as well wish your "illegal" fellow human beings luck, and leave them alone if they don't seek to harm you.

How dare you bust Yasha's and the other neocons' little pink bubble world, you dirty communist. No, the world population isn't exponentially growing, most the growth being in dirt-poor underdeveloped nations, no, they are not driven towards emigration by their conditions - they are driven towards migrating because of lack of proper protestant working ethic education and proper policies by their elected governments. They are poor because they refuse to work in order to improve their living standards, how can you not understand.

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Re: Illegal immigration problems and solutions

Postby Utopist » 2012-03-27, 18:50

To express my own opinion on this problem I'd like to show you my resolution, which I wrote within the SPIMUN Conference. It failed today because of the arisen misunderstanding. People said it's fucking racist. :(
P. S. attached as docx file below

They preferred another contradictory crap instead.
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Re: Illegal immigration problems and solutions

Postby Utopist » 2012-03-27, 18:52

the rest of their resolution
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Re: Illegal immigration problems and solutions

Postby linguoboy » 2012-03-27, 18:54

Saim wrote:To answer that I'd say: how does Indonesia treat its refugees?

That I can't answer. Perhaps Yasha has more information?

Saim wrote:And how is it a false dichotomy?

What if you have to abandon your country in order to keep from starving to death? You aren't being overtly persecuted for political reasons, but it is the actions of the current regime which have reduced you to this state. Under the traditional dichotomy, you are an "economic migrant", not a "political" one.

It was the situation in Zimbabwe which brought this problem to international attention. The shambolic state of the country is directly the result of the policies pursued by the ZANU-PF. Millions face death as a result of these policies but only a minority of them can demonstrate evidence of persecution at the hands of the government as direct result of their political actions.
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Re: Illegal immigration problems and solutions

Postby Bao » 2012-03-27, 19:55

linguoboy wrote:
Bao wrote:
hlysnan wrote:There is a demand and supply.

So what, do you believe, will happen when you try to cut the supply?

They'll be forced to hire Australian citizens--and at higher wages!

I was actually still asking about sex workers, not illegal immigrants.
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Re: Illegal immigration problems and solutions

Postby Ludwig Whitby » 2012-03-27, 21:18

Tenebrarum wrote:Because no country exists in a vacuum. Bad Things won't simply stay in the Other Reality. They will reach Your Reality, and you will see them and your police force will become a part of them, regardless of what you do.

No, actually, Bad Things have been there all along, well before any "illegal" alien comes to your world. The immigrants' Bad Things are just more acute.

So you might as well wish your "illegal" fellow human beings luck, and leave them alone if they don't seek to harm you.

We are trying to ignore Bad Things all the time. With more of them entering our country it might become impossible and we might even be forced to do something about them.

Addendum:
How dare you bust Yasha's and the other neocons' little pink bubble world

Yeah, let your problems die with you. No need to bother others with them...
Last edited by Ludwig Whitby on 2012-03-27, 21:37, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Illegal immigration problems and solutions

Postby linguoboy » 2012-03-27, 21:21

Bao wrote:
linguoboy wrote:
Bao wrote:
hlysnan wrote:There is a demand and supply.

So what, do you believe, will happen when you try to cut the supply?

They'll be forced to hire Australian citizens--and at higher wages!

I was actually still asking about sex workers, not illegal immigrants.

So was I!
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Re: Illegal immigration problems and solutions

Postby Bao » 2012-03-29, 15:10

linguoboy wrote:
Bao wrote:
linguoboy wrote:
Bao wrote:
hlysnan wrote:There is a demand and supply.

So what, do you believe, will happen when you try to cut the supply?

They'll be forced to hire Australian citizens--and at higher wages!

I was actually still asking about sex workers, not illegal immigrants.

So was I!

Odd, I was under the impression that most prostitutes work for fees.
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Re: Illegal immigration problems and solutions

Postby linguoboy » 2012-03-29, 15:38

Bao wrote:
linguoboy wrote:
Bao wrote:
linguoboy wrote:They'll be forced to hire Australian citizens--and at higher wages!

I was actually still asking about sex workers, not illegal immigrants.

So was I!

Odd, I was under the impression that most prostitutes work for fees.

And I was under the impression that most prostitutes considered themselves "sex workers" rather than "professionals". (If there's a professional body regulating the sex trade in Australia, then I'd love to know what their licensing exam consists of!)
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Re: Illegal immigration problems and solutions

Postby Utopist » 2012-03-29, 17:38

I'd really love if someone commented on our resolution. Were we able to suggest possible ways of resolving this problem?
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Re: Illegal immigration problems and solutions

Postby Tenebrarum » 2012-03-29, 18:01

linguoboy wrote:(If there's a professional body regulating the sex trade in Australia, then I'd love to know what their licensing exam consists of!)

Perhaps it works similarly to the one in the US.
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