Question about the European Integration project

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Jurgen Wullenwever
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Re: Question about the European Integration project

Postby Jurgen Wullenwever » 2012-03-18, 8:05

The main problem with the European Union is that, instead of being the expression of popular needs everything comes from above, and is partial, and biased, and unnecessary, and watered down compromises, without regard for the actual needs on the ground. Furthermore, we have got a new ruling class of greedy EU-persons in addition to the existing ones in every country.

And everytime, the EU seems to be working against the people, trying every which way to make the voters ratify stuff that they do not really want.

There has been talk of the common market for several decades, but they still have not created it, instead they introduce a common currency, without a common economical governmental structure.

Besides, everything connected to the EU gets a ridiculous form: the horrible, "American" EU flag with the stars, the unimaginative name of the common currency, "Euro", when there has been a lot of good names for European money in ages past.

I am thoroughly against the EU, but I would like a united European state, perhaps with a cantonised structure of government, to minimise ethnic tensions and give every group its rights. And a government that tries to stop greed and destruction, instead of supporting it.
Chekhov wrote:I don't know about naive worldviews, but Jurgen Wullenwhatever pisses me off to no end because of his extreme pessimism and cynicism. You'd think the world was going to end imminently when talking to that guy.

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Leviwosc
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Re: Question about the European Integration project

Postby Leviwosc » 2012-03-19, 1:55

Arcane wrote:I am sincerely surprised by some of the statements and sentiments expressed in this thread.

Surprise is good, but strange, since you seem to be omniscient.

Arcane wrote:I would be most curious to learn about the methodology behind your choice. Why pick Poland and the Czech Republic, but exclude the Baltic countries?

I have to admit that I perhaps crossed off the Baltic countries too easily.

Arcane wrote:Slovakia, Bulgaria, Slovenia and Romania pose less risk to the EU than Italy or Spain. But hey, they're not Western enough, it seems. It's better to ban them from the EU altogether - they're too different and mysterious. They also have no colonial experience, so no common topics to chat about.

Slovakia... hmm okay... Bulgaria NO! Bulgaria is really still more like a 3rd world country. It's ludicrous that one allowed Bulgaria to the EU. There's so much wrong with that country, don't even get me started about it. Same story for Romania btw.
If I cared only for western countries, I wouldn't have added Poland and Czech Republic to my list. Assumptions are fun, but they're often incorrect.
Denmark has little or no colonial experience either and yet I don't want the Danish to leave the EU.

Arcane wrote:Congratulations on finding your new enemy. You seriously believe Greece is solely responsible? Who and why lent them all this money for such a long period of time? Too many questions, better just blame the Greeks. They are lazy and know no German.

I haven't said that I think they're soley responsible for the crisis. Unfortunately they're the big concrete block tied to our feet right now and we try to keep our heads above the surface.
I don't care whether they don't speak German, I'm only very disappointed they don't speak Dutch. While I have to pay more for my insurances, I do not get a rise on my wage and I have to pay more VAT on the products I consume. If you dare to say that this is insignificant you really deserve a spanking.

Arcane wrote:But you don't mind offering your goods on the fast developing emerging markets and making profit. Neither do you mind having someone else do the dirty jobs for you. Take the best and ban them from the rest, very comfortable.

I'm Dutch, that's what we did for more than 700 years. That's why we had a Golden Age! The first international company in the world, the first country with a stock exchange in history of the planet. We Dutch even sell weapons to African countries and in The Hague, the legal capital of Europe, there are more than 150 international organisations for peace, human rights, a cleaner environment, the UN, etc. We trade with almost everybody, but this doesn't mean we have to accept them all in our union.

Arcane wrote:To all who still think ex-communist countries were communist, because people decided so - read a bit more. In reality most of Eastern Europe was heading in a completely different direction.

Read a bit more... what a lousy and stupid remark. Just name the books then. I'd love to know what books you've read to have these insights. Which books can turn me into a tree hugging, Greek loving Dutchie!?

Arcane wrote:And then the Red Army entered.
True story.

Thus the Russians are the bastards? Or do I misunderstand that?

Arcane wrote:PS: No bad feelings, I'd just like to provoke some thought and challenge why you have formed certain opinions. And why things in the EU now are as they are.

Frankly I'm not fond of provokers and sarcastic comments. I understand your aim, though. In fact I'd love to drop the whole idea of the EU, right now. But I know that's not realistic at all. My idea for a union isn't realistic either, but may I not have dreams my dear Danish friend?
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johnH

Re: Question about the European Integration project

Postby johnH » 2012-07-06, 13:32

Actually itss harder to move threw Europe you have to get used to a whole new system it's like moving to a whole new trove on another reservation once the integration projects done easy isn't the word I'd use.

Ludwig Whitby
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Re: Question about the European Integration project

Postby Ludwig Whitby » 2012-07-06, 14:34

The only thing that can save EU in the moment is more centralization. Germans might very well be in charge of whole Europe as far as I'm concerned. The rest of the continent is useless anyway.

johnH

Re: Question about the European Integration project

Postby johnH » 2012-07-06, 14:46

Actually germant doesn't have it's shit together, Or we need more sensible government not necisarily more central government. :| we most certainly if anything don't benefit from to much austerity. Also things that don't make sense to centralize, impractical or unfeasable to do just like some large European projects, specifically CERN and ESA wouldnt work if they were completely regionalized.
Last edited by johnH on 2012-07-06, 14:57, edited 1 time in total.

Ludwig Whitby
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Re: Question about the European Integration project

Postby Ludwig Whitby » 2012-07-06, 14:56

johnH wrote:Actually germant doesn't have it's shit together, Or we need more sensible government not necisarily more central government. :| we most certainly if anything don't benefit from to much austerity.

Germany? What do you mean it doesn't have it's shit together?

A more sensible government? Good luck finding that in Eastern and Southern Europe.

johnH

Re: Question about the European Integration project

Postby johnH » 2012-07-06, 15:00

Yeah but northern Europe or how about going far enough west, Then their are some sensible local governments Atleast relatively.
The federal states will have to be bailed out they are in enormous debt and the German fiscal management isn't better than the irish one right now to say the very least.
I could ask how would you like to have a central Yugoslavian government,
Or would you rather have a better Serbian government.
We need some fiscal power to make it possible to do reforms, without having to have another and then another European summit here,
Indeed the federal structure is I'm urgent need of reform in germany... Specifically state governments can't collect mony st sll do their money Is taken from the central pot, in away that doesn't actually match the needs of the various states at all.
Ignoring other level of government debts probably, all that will need to be paid by someone but remember it's impossible literally impossible to raise the funds or even save. Debts can be forgiven but if they won't be forgiven let alone interest being nullified then someone's going to have to pay sooner rather than later.


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