Your core beliefs (religious/life phil/spiritual/ethical)

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Your core beliefs (religious/life phil/spiritual/ethical)

Postby Ludwig Whitby » 2011-04-01, 14:52

Male homosexuality and feminine manners are often seen as two sides of a same coin. It's not only because you are not attracted to women, it's because of the feminine conduct. And I know that not all gay people are feminine, but that's the stereotype.

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Re: Your core beliefs (religious/life phil/spiritual/ethical)

Postby mōdgethanc » 2011-04-01, 23:32

Gay men and feminine women are completely different (for starters, not all gay men are feminine).

But more on topic, the social dynamics are completely different between two men calling each other insulting names in a gesture of camaraderie, and a man calling a woman a whore in the same manner. It's like asking why black people get to say "whassup nigga" and we don't.

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Re: Your core beliefs (religious/life phil/spiritual/ethical)

Postby johntm » 2011-04-02, 2:46

Talib wrote:But more on topic, the social dynamics are completely different between two men calling each other insulting names in a gesture of camaraderie, and a man calling a woman a whore in the same manner. It's like asking why black people get to say "whassup nigga" and we don't.

It depends, I've done both of those things, in a camaraderie-ish way. It depends a lot on your relationship with the person, it's normally with close friends, although I took part in calling my friends ex-gf a slut to he face(in was in a joking context, with her friends too, and she is somewhat of a slut in reality).
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Re: Your core beliefs (religious/life phil/spiritual/ethical)

Postby mōdgethanc » 2011-04-02, 4:02

Yeah, context really is key. I wouldn't say that to a near-stranger though, just to be safe. Would you put your arm around a woman you don't know just because it's fine if she's your friend?

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Re: Your core beliefs (religious/life phil/spiritual/ethical)

Postby Varislintu » 2011-04-02, 8:46

And between friends it's possible to agree that you don't want to be called X, even in joking contexts, if it bothers you. With non-friends you can't agree on that, they'll do it anyway if they want (i.e. it's un-consensual).
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Re: Your core beliefs (religious/life phil/spiritual/ethical)

Postby Ludwig Whitby » 2011-04-02, 9:44

Talib wrote:Gay men and feminine women are completely different (for starters, not all gay men are feminine).

Okay... Not that I don't agree, but why do you say that?

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Re: Your core beliefs (religious/life phil/spiritual/ethical)

Postby mōdgethanc » 2011-04-02, 10:14

Because you said "male homosexuality and feminine manners are often seen as two sides of a same coin". I was expressing disagreement. I know you don't agree with it either.

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Re: Your core beliefs (religious/life phil/spiritual/ethical)

Postby Massimiliano B » 2014-09-04, 14:52

This is a great thread!! Does anybody want to share his/her core beliefs?

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Re: Your core beliefs (religious/life phil/spiritual/ethical)

Postby Ludwig Whitby » 2014-09-06, 19:27

I'll start with boredom. When you don't do anything, when you're alone with your own thoughts and no external stimuli whatsoever, you get bored. The boredom, if prolonged, becomes unbearable, it turns into suffering. This leads me to believe that life itself, when everything else is excluded, just life, bare, pure life is bad for you. It makes you suffer.

Happiness is the alleviation of that suffering. Prolonged suffering leads to suffering. Prolonged happiness leads to boredom. Which means that suffering can exists by itself, while happiness can't exist without suffering. Suffering and happiness aren't like jin and jang, like two sides of the same coin. They are more like an object and its shadow: one can exist without the other, while the other can't exist on its own.

Life is therefore something negative. You have a will to live, an urge to keep living and thus keep suffering and asking yourself why. Why do I suffer? You have a need for meaning, you need to know the reason behind this suffering (because meaningful suffering is much less scary) and the answer is even more chilling: There is none. Life is utterly absurd and meaningless. You're searching for meaning in a meaningless universe.

So, just keep your mind busy and do stuff. Express yourself through art. Make stuff. Focus your mind and energy on something and never be bored so that time will fly and some day you'll finally die. :D

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Re: Your core beliefs (religious/life phil/spiritual/ethical)

Postby IpseDixit » 2014-09-07, 20:38

Ludwig Whitby wrote:I'll start with boredom. When you don't do anything, when you're alone with your own thoughts and no external stimuli whatsoever, you get bored. The boredom, if prolonged, becomes unbearable, it turns into suffering. This leads me to believe that life itself, when everything else is excluded, just life, bare, pure life is bad for you. It makes you suffer.

Happiness is the alleviation of that suffering. Prolonged suffering leads to suffering. Prolonged happiness leads to boredom. Which means that suffering can exists by itself, while happiness can't exist without suffering. Suffering and happiness aren't like jin and jang, like two sides of the same coin. They are more like an object and its shadow: one can exist without the other, while the other can't exist on its own.

Life is therefore something negative. You have a will to live, an urge to keep living and thus keep suffering and asking yourself why. Why do I suffer? You have a need for meaning, you need to know the reason behind this suffering (because meaningful suffering is much less scary) and the answer is even more chilling: There is none. Life is utterly absurd and meaningless. You're searching for meaning in a meaningless universe.

So, just keep your mind busy and do stuff. Express yourself through art. Make stuff. Focus your mind and energy on something and never be bored so that time will fly and some day you'll finally die. :D


Hi Arthur.

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Re: Your core beliefs (religious/life phil/spiritual/ethical)

Postby vijayjohn » 2014-09-08, 0:17

Ludwig Whitby wrote:I'll start with boredom. When you don't do anything, when you're alone with your own thoughts and no external stimuli whatsoever, you get bored.

Only if you're in that situation long enough (but for that matter, couldn't you consider food an external stimulus? Forget about being bored; you can't even survive without some sort of external stimuli). It's possible to be in that situation for a while and not be bored at all. In fact, I think I've frequently found myself in situations where I keep myself entertained without using any external stimuli (even if I used external stimuli in the past that helped me do this).
The boredom, if prolonged, becomes unbearable, it turns into suffering. This leads me to believe that life itself, when everything else is excluded, just life, bare, pure life is bad for you. It makes you suffer.

Happiness is the alleviation of that suffering.

I disagree. I think happiness is the result of alleviating suffering in general, not just the alleviation of that specific kind of suffering.
Prolonged suffering leads to suffering. Prolonged happiness leads to boredom. Which means that suffering can exists by itself, while happiness can't exist without suffering. Suffering and happiness aren't like jin and jang, like two sides of the same coin. They are more like an object and its shadow: one can exist without the other, while the other can't exist on its own.

You can find various ways of making/keeping yourself happy, and then happiness will not lead to boredom.
Life is therefore something negative. You have a will to live, an urge to keep living and thus keep suffering and asking yourself why. Why do I suffer? You have a need for meaning, you need to know the reason behind this suffering (because meaningful suffering is much less scary) and the answer is even more chilling: There is none. Life is utterly absurd and meaningless. You're searching for meaning in a meaningless universe.

To think someone once said I needed to learn something about positive thinking! I see life as incredibly difficult but not necessarily negative. It has its ups and downs, and I don't really see the point of worrying about what it all means. If you keep worrying about that or anything else, you'll probably just end up being depressed. Personally, I think I try to see what I have that makes me happy and to be grateful for it. :)
So, just keep your mind busy and do stuff. Express yourself through art. Make stuff. Focus your mind and energy on something and never be bored so that time will fly and some day you'll finally die. :D

Well, doing stuff is productive, so doesn't that make you happy? I find that life can be incredibly hard and awful, but if you (can) try to just do what makes you happy and be nice to everyone, you may be surprised to see how much it can pay off. I think it makes life much easier to go through (still hard but easier). I've felt quite often that I might as well die but only because I didn't see myself as worthy of life. But by now, I realize that there are people who are willing to appreciate me unconditionally for who I am and that therefore I do deserve to live.
IpseDixit wrote:Hi Arthur.

Which Arthur? :hmm:

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Re: Your core beliefs (religious/life phil/spiritual/ethical)

Postby Halfdan » 2014-09-08, 2:08

Arthur Schopenhauer, perhaps.

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Re: Your core beliefs (religious/life phil/spiritual/ethical)

Postby IpseDixit » 2014-09-08, 10:49

Halfdan wrote:Arthur Schopenhauer, perhaps.


Yes, of course. Who else could that be? :)

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Re: Your core beliefs (religious/life phil/spiritual/ethical)

Postby mōdgethanc » 2014-09-08, 12:08

Arthur C. Clarke?

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Re: Your core beliefs (religious/life phil/spiritual/ethical)

Postby Ludwig Whitby » 2014-09-08, 13:02

When it comes to philosopher I've actually spent much, much more time studying Nietzsche. I've only read a bit of Schopenhauer and just thought ''Well yeah, this makes so much sense, I feel like I've known this all my life.'' So I started reading Nietzsche instead in order to get out of the pessimism. The Nietzsche therapy didn't work out as well as I hoped.

Gonna respond to Vijay later. Too tired to think right now.

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Re: Your core beliefs (religious/life phil/spiritual/ethical)

Postby Ludwig Whitby » 2014-09-08, 17:08

vijayjohn wrote:
Ludwig Whitby wrote:I'll start with boredom. When you don't do anything, when you're alone with your own thoughts and no external stimuli whatsoever, you get bored.

Only if you're in that situation long enough (but for that matter, couldn't you consider food an external stimulus? Forget about being bored; you can't even survive without some sort of external stimuli). It's possible to be in that situation for a while and not be bored at all. In fact, I think I've frequently found myself in situations where I keep myself entertained without using any external stimuli (even if I used external stimuli in the past that helped me do this).

Well food is something external and it only underlines my point. Food alleviation your hunger (suffering) and when you're full you just feel relaxed and content (happiness).

I use terms 'suffering' and 'happiness' very loosely, almost as to mean 'negative feelings' and 'positive feelings'.
vijayjohn wrote:
The boredom, if prolonged, becomes unbearable, it turns into suffering. This leads me to believe that life itself, when everything else is excluded, just life, bare, pure life is bad for you. It makes you suffer.

Happiness is the alleviation of that suffering.

I disagree. I think happiness is the result of alleviating suffering in general, not just the alleviation of that specific kind of suffering.

That's what I meant, actually. I express myself poorly.
vijayjohn wrote:
Prolonged suffering leads to suffering. Prolonged happiness leads to boredom. Which means that suffering can exists by itself, while happiness can't exist without suffering. Suffering and happiness aren't like jin and jang, like two sides of the same coin. They are more like an object and its shadow: one can exist without the other, while the other can't exist on its own.

You can find various ways of making/keeping yourself happy, and then happiness will not lead to boredom.

Without some form for suffering you can't. You can always keep yourself busy, distract yourself with ever more exciting stuff (new books, new movies, new videogames, virtual reality, new sporting events, more music, new languages) but there will always come a point when you'll get bored of it all.

At least I do, and so I've decided that everyone does as well! :)
vijayjohn wrote:
Life is therefore something negative. You have a will to live, an urge to keep living and thus keep suffering and asking yourself why. Why do I suffer? You have a need for meaning, you need to know the reason behind this suffering (because meaningful suffering is much less scary) and the answer is even more chilling: There is none. Life is utterly absurd and meaningless. You're searching for meaning in a meaningless universe.

To think someone once said I needed to learn something about positive thinking! I see life as incredibly difficult but not necessarily negative. It has its ups and downs, and I don't really see the point of worrying about what it all means. If you keep worrying about that or anything else, you'll probably just end up being depressed. Personally, I think I try to see what I have that makes me happy and to be grateful for it. :)

That's good for you then. I don't really see the point of worrying about what it all means, but I just have to do that. I don't think that much any more, because I've sort of convinced myself that 'I've figuered it all out'. Not that it matters much that I did, I still act the same. See how absurd the world is? Something within me forced me to think and the conclusion of that thinking is that it doesn't matter whether you think or not.

Life has both its positive and negative sides, but as I argued, the negative sides to life are inherent, whereas the positive side is simply the momentary absence of the negative. 'Life has its ups and downs' is in my opinion a wrong cognitive metaphor.
vijayjohn wrote:
So, just keep your mind busy and do stuff. Express yourself through art. Make stuff. Focus your mind and energy on something and never be bored so that time will fly and some day you'll finally die. :D

Well, doing stuff is productive, so doesn't that make you happy? I find that life can be incredibly hard and awful, but if you (can) try to just do what makes you happy and be nice to everyone, you may be surprised to see how much it can pay off. I think it makes life much easier to go through (still hard but easier). I've felt quite often that I might as well die but only because I didn't see myself as worthy of life. But by now, I realize that there are people who are willing to appreciate me unconditionally for who I am and that therefore I do deserve to live.

Art is great and does make me happy because the creative process in itself has both suffering and happiness and is able to exclude you from your surroundings. Philosophy as well.

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Re: Your core beliefs (religious/life phil/spiritual/ethical)

Postby vijayjohn » 2014-09-08, 20:09

Ludwig Whitby wrote:Well food is something external and it only underlines my point. Food alleviation your hunger (suffering) and when you're full you just feel relaxed and content (happiness).

I use terms 'suffering' and 'happiness' very loosely, almost as to mean 'negative feelings' and 'positive feelings'.

But the point I'm making here is that with food, it's not even just about feelings. We literally cannot survive without external stimuli. It is biologically impossible.
That's what I meant, actually. I express myself poorly.

Fair enough! :)
Without some form for suffering you can't. You can always keep yourself busy, distract yourself with ever more exciting stuff (new books, new movies, new videogames, virtual reality, new sporting events, more music, new languages) but there will always come a point when you'll get bored of it all.

At least I do, and so I've decided that everyone does as well! :)

Well, I'm sorry to disappoint you, but that's not true. I never get tired of studying languages, because there are so freaking many of them out there. There's quite a bit of variation even within Eurasia, and once you step outside of there, seeing how varied the languages of the world are is mind-boggling IMPO (and this is without even looking at probably the majority of languages, which have died off without even being recorded at all!).
That's good for you then.

Thanks. :D
I don't really see the point of worrying about what it all means, but I just have to do that.

Why?
I don't think that much any more, because I've sort of convinced myself that 'I've figuered it all out'. Not that it matters much that I did, I still act the same. See how absurd the world is? Something within me forced me to think and the conclusion of that thinking is that it doesn't matter whether you think or not.

Life has both its positive and negative sides, but as I argued, the negative sides to life are inherent, whereas the positive side is simply the momentary absence of the negative. 'Life has its ups and downs' is in my opinion a wrong cognitive metaphor.

If you don't mind me pointing this out, you clearly have a very negative view of the world. I hate to ask this question because I really don't mean to offend you, but I think I'm just too curious to refrain from asking: Are you sure it's really the world that's absurd, or do you have a psychological reason for thinking that you have to know exactly how it works? Maybe you talked about having some kind of mental disorder somewhere else on this forum, but if you did, I remember neither when nor where. While I've never been diagnosed with anything, it seems I suffer from anxiety myself, and as much as it sucks, I find that it helps to have a somewhat positive attitude.

It also helps to get honest positive feedback (and in fact to have a source of such feedback), so I also wonder whether you have any friends and/or other people who you completely trust. Again, I'm asking because until recently, I didn't have any friends and placed all my trust in someone who I no longer think I can trust all that much.
Art is great and does make me happy because the creative process in itself has both suffering and happiness and is able to exclude you from your surroundings. Philosophy as well.

Well, I think it's great that those things make you happy, and I hope they will never cause you to feel bored. :) I bet you're a great artist and know a lot about philosophy. I personally can get overwhelmed easily when someone talks deeply about philosophy, and I really, really suck at drawing. :lol: So for me, as I said, it's languages that make me happy, but to each his own! ;)

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Re: Your core beliefs (religious/life phil/spiritual/ethical)

Postby Ludwig Whitby » 2014-09-09, 6:57

vijayjohn wrote:
Ludwig Whitby wrote:Well food is something external and it only underlines my point. Food alleviation your hunger (suffering) and when you're full you just feel relaxed and content (happiness).

I use terms 'suffering' and 'happiness' very loosely, almost as to mean 'negative feelings' and 'positive feelings'.

But the point I'm making here is that with food, it's not even just about feelings. We literally cannot survive without external stimuli. It is biologically impossible.

Ok. What's your conclusion? It still seems like we're always lacking something, suffering over the lack of it and only momentarily feeling good when we've obtained it.

vijayjohn wrote:
Without some form for suffering you can't. You can always keep yourself busy, distract yourself with ever more exciting stuff (new books, new movies, new videogames, virtual reality, new sporting events, more music, new languages) but there will always come a point when you'll get bored of it all.

At least I do, and so I've decided that everyone does as well! :)

Well, I'm sorry to disappoint you, but that's not true. I never get tired of studying languages, because there are so freaking many of them out there. There's quite a bit of variation even within Eurasia, and once you step outside of there, seeing how varied the languages of the world are is mind-boggling IMPO (and this is without even looking at probably the majority of languages, which have died off without even being recorded at all!).

Language learning is a process that, similarly to creating art, contains negative feelings.
vijayjohn wrote:
Ludwig Whitby wrote:
I don't really see the point of worrying about what it all means, but I just have to do that.

Why?

I just have to. Like I just have to masturbate or socialize (maybe not both at the same time).
vijayjohn wrote:
I don't think that much any more, because I've sort of convinced myself that 'I've figuered it all out'. Not that it matters much that I did, I still act the same. See how absurd the world is? Something within me forced me to think and the conclusion of that thinking is that it doesn't matter whether you think or not.

Life has both its positive and negative sides, but as I argued, the negative sides to life are inherent, whereas the positive side is simply the momentary absence of the negative. 'Life has its ups and downs' is in my opinion a wrong cognitive metaphor.

If you don't mind me pointing this out, you clearly have a very negative view of the world. I hate to ask this question because I really don't mean to offend you, but I think I'm just too curious to refrain from asking: Are you sure it's really the world that's absurd, or do you have a psychological reason for thinking that you have to know exactly how it works? Maybe you talked about having some kind of mental disorder somewhere else on this forum, but if you did, I remember neither when nor where. While I've never been diagnosed with anything, it seems I suffer from anxiety myself, and as much as it sucks, I find that it helps to have a somewhat positive attitude.

It also helps to get honest positive feedback (and in fact to have a source of such feedback), so I also wonder whether you have any friends and/or other people who you completely trust. Again, I'm asking because until recently, I didn't have any friends and placed all my trust in someone who I no longer think I can trust all that much.


Man, you're way off. I have no psychological diagnosis. I have loads of friends. I have a couple of people who I trust very much (I'm not sure about the word completely). I'm not some happy-go-lucky dude, but I have fun in life. At the moment I'm actually rather satisfied with my life. This 'negative view on the world' is for me mostly theoretical and thinking/writing about it prevents me from feeling it.
Last edited by Ludwig Whitby on 2014-09-09, 9:39, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Your core beliefs (religious/life phil/spiritual/ethical)

Postby Lada » 2014-09-09, 9:29

Ludwig Whitby wrote:I'll start with boredom. When you don't do anything, when you're alone with your own thoughts and no external stimuli whatsoever, you get bored.

Start to meditate, it's good if you're really bored.
The boredom, if prolonged, becomes unbearable, it turns into suffering.

You turn it into suffering, everything that happens to you is a consequence of your deeds and thoughts.
This leads me to believe that life itself, when everything else is excluded, just life, bare, pure life is bad for you. It makes you suffer.

No, you make suffer yourself and if you like it, it's your business.
Life is utterly absurd and meaningless. You're searching for meaning in a meaningless universe.

No, many people found sence of life, me including. Stop thinking about sense of life and you'll find it, it comes naturally. :)

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Re: Your core beliefs (religious/life phil/spiritual/ethical)

Postby Ludwig Whitby » 2014-09-09, 9:57

Lada wrote:
The boredom, if prolonged, becomes unbearable, it turns into suffering.

You turn it into suffering, everything that happens to you is a consequence of your deeds and thoughts.

I'm not sure I believe in free will.
Lada wrote:
This leads me to believe that life itself, when everything else is excluded, just life, bare, pure life is bad for you. It makes you suffer.

No, you make suffer yourself and if you like it, it's your business.

No. Sexual frustration and loneliness for example are feelings that come about by themselves. You don't make yourself lonely. What you can do is do everything in your power to make friends and find a sexual partner in order to stop feeling those negative sensations.

Suffering exists by itself. You don't make it, it just comes to you and you can either fight it or help it grow, which is your choice (sort of, maybe...)
Lada wrote:
Life is utterly absurd and meaningless. You're searching for meaning in a meaningless universe.

No, many people found sence of life, me including. Stop thinking about sense of life and you'll find it, it comes naturally. :)

This seems like the advice depressed people get: ''Stop being depressed!''

I'm sorry but just isn't that easy. I could just distract myself all the time, but that would only be sweeping the issue under the rug and when the illusion breaks either due to me being left alone with my thoughts or a temporary crisis in my life I'd fall apart.

Instead, I went down the path I had to go. I thought and thought and came to the conclusion that there is no inherent meaning in life, no objective morality and no right and wrong thing to do and that life is essentially negative, a constant lack of something and thus a constant and meaningless race to obtain what's lacking only to find out that now you lack something else. I went further, I felt all of that (existential anxiety/depresion), and trust me, knowing and feeling are two different worlds. And then I went even further, I accepted it as a part of life and learned how to live with it.

So please stop trying to diagnose me and cure me, especially given that you're doing it wrong.


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