Light Bulb Ban [split]

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Varislintu
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Re: Light Bulb Ban [split]

Postby Varislintu » 2011-01-03, 7:36

Hunef wrote:Where I live we used to have root cellars rather than simply putting food and stuff outdoors for people and animals to scavenge it. :roll: (In fact, root cellars are still used and built here to some extent, such as e.g. this modern concrete version produced by some company in the northeastern part my province.


Here in Finland "commie block houses" from the 60's and 70's usually have a "cold cellar", i.e. a room in the cellar that is cold (not artificially!) and where each apartment has a niche where they can keep for example jars of homemade jam or bottles of homemade juice. I think this was the urban equivalent of the root cellars in the countyside. I don't know it newer buildings have it anymore, though. But last winter when I was away from my apartment about a month over Christmas, I took my remaining fridge stuff there and turned off the fridge/freezer completely :).
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Re: Light Bulb Ban [split]

Postby Lada » 2011-01-03, 22:27

Varislintu wrote:Here in Finland "commie block houses" from the 60's and 70's usually have a "cold cellar", i.e. a room in the cellar that is cold (not artificially!) and where each apartment has a niche where they can keep for example jars of homemade jam or bottles of homemade juice.

In commie country like Russia they made a "fridge" in the wall under your kitchen window. This is a niche in the wall with several shelves and a little hole to outside, so it has almost the same temperature as on the street. I have no idea if they still make it in new houses.

In some Russian cities (not in Moscow) you can buy cellar-like room. These cellars are like rows of garages, however some of them are under ground. As majority of Russian people buy potatoes for the all winter and have their dachas with gardens (so grannies cook jams, pickles etc.) this type of property is very popular.

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Re: Light Bulb Ban [split]

Postby Varislintu » 2011-01-03, 22:37

Lada wrote:In commie country like Russia they made a "fridge" in the wall under your kitchen window. This is a niche in the wall with several shelves and a little hole to outside, so it has almost the same temperature as on the street. I have no idea if they still make it in new houses.


With some development, that could be a really good idea for new apartments.

I doubt people could do without a fridge, though, as the constant not too cold and not too warm temperature is very practical. My parents have a "glassed" balcony and around Christmas we kept some of the food there, but even with the glass it was still well below freezing which means you can't keep veggies, milk, most drinks, or dairy products there. But if a fridge could somehow utilize the outside cold without dropping too far in temperature, that would of course be great.
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Re: Light Bulb Ban [split]

Postby Spaigelploatje » 2011-01-04, 2:50

Oleksij wrote:Fluorescent lamps are crap. They are potentially toxic (mercury vapour) and unlikely to even start in sub-zero temperatures (implying all European countries are tropical or Mediterranean). Well done, EU. :roll:

The one I have outside the garage starts @ -14C flawlessly. :wink:

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Re: Light Bulb Ban [split]

Postby Hunef » 2011-01-06, 23:52

Varislintu wrote:Here in Finland "commie block houses" from the 60's and 70's usually have a "cold cellar", i.e. a room in the cellar that is cold (not artificially!) and where each apartment has a niche where they can keep for example jars of homemade jam or bottles of homemade juice.
I've never seen that here, but I can't rule out the possibility that it exists. I've been living in three different block houses in my youth as a student but I never looked up whether there were any such spaces. I only did the laundry and stored my bike in the cellar.

NB: I used to live in one of these buildings in 1999-2002, in this area in 2003-2005, and in this building in 2005-2006.(Yes, the building in the last picture has a subway station in it. I didn't see much sunlight that year. :? The building also featured a crappy shopping mall, invisible in the picture because of the angle. Read more about it here. The shopping mall in question is not as crappy as this abandoned shopping mall in the suburb in my home town where my high school (gymnasium) was situated, though.)
But the fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright Brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown.
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Re: Light Bulb Ban [split]

Postby Jurgen Wullenwever » 2011-01-30, 7:19

This summer, it was hot, so I replaced the 60W lightbulb over my computer desk with a low energy lamp, and the light was OK, but the magnetic field or whatever it was that I sensed from the lamp made me feel ill, so I shifted to a 25W lightbulb instead, which felt much better, although I have been regretting that during the winter, since it gives so little warmth. I did not simply replace it with a 60W, since they often break when you move them.

Now, this 25W is dying. It gave off a blinking light when I switched it on, and then turned to a steady light, but with a whining sound. The thread is broken, and when I switch it off, it will never shine again. :(

EDIT: Now it finally went off.
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Re: legalize all drugs

Postby johnH » 2011-02-03, 13:07

Formiko wrote:
Jurgen Wullenwever wrote:The EU has made lightbulbs illegal,

You're joking, right?

Energy inefficient light bulbs. The E.U. And respextive member governments are also obliged to... Make cars illegal in that sense. such laws should be apolied too Toasters, fridges ovens, clothing and food should also be on that list. That is counting power consumption innproduction use, and in some casses cleaning/maintanance and finally disposal.

Jurgen Wullenwever wrote:This summer, it was hot, so I replaced the 60W lightbulb over my computer desk with a low energy lamp, and the light was OK, but the magnetic field or whatever it was that I sensed from the lamp made me feel ill, so I shifted to a 25W lightbulb instead, which felt much better, although I have been regretting that during the winter, since it gives so little warmth. I did not simply replace it with a 60W, since they often break when you move them.

Now, this 25W is dying. It gave off a blinking light when I switched it on, and then turned to a steady light, but with a whining sound. The thread is broken, and when I switch it off, it will never shine again. :(

EDIT: Now it finally went off.

:| thats waste of energy if you need heat put the heater on. :| unless your heater is just as energy efficient for heat in which case buy a new heater, and disoose of your old one by recylcing... Locally if possible, not in china.
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Re: Light Bulb Ban [split]

Postby Jurgen Wullenwever » 2011-02-03, 18:57

johnH wrote:thats waste of energy

There is no limit to electricity consumption, so I can change from using 60W lightbulbs that I turn off every time I leave the room, to using ten 15W low energy lamps that shine all the time, since I do not want to wait for them every time I turn them on, so then I might use 150W instead. Besides, lighting is a very small part of the electric power usage. Why should I not get to use the lamps that I prefer, and that I do not get a headache from?

johnH wrote:if you need heat put the heater on.
I am sitting in +12C right now. :)
Chekhov wrote:I don't know about naive worldviews, but Jurgen Wullenwhatever pisses me off to no end because of his extreme pessimism and cynicism. You'd think the world was going to end imminently when talking to that guy.

Jag är rebell: jag sockrar teet, saltar maten, cyklar utan hjälm, och tänder glödlampor.
(Ovanstående var förut, nu försöker jag minska sockret och saltet.)

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Re: Light Bulb Ban [split]

Postby Yserenhart » 2011-02-03, 19:49

Jurgen Wullenwever wrote:There is no limit to electricity consumption, so I can change from using 60W lightbulbs that I turn off every time I leave the room, to using ten 15W low energy lamps that shine all the time, since I do not want to wait for them every time I turn them on, so then I might use 150W instead. Besides, lighting is a very small part of the electric power usage. Why should I not get to use the lamps that I prefer, and that I do not get a headache from?

This is the part that I don't get. As far as I can tell, this huge push for energy efficiency is aimed at cutting down the amount of electricity needed to be produced, yes? I guess this is because Europe still has the majority of it's electricity generated by coal and oil plants. To me banning the lightbulbs seems like a knee-jerk reaction, that will only provide a short term solution at best. Maybe time and efforts would be better spent phasing out the fossil-fuel plants, and replacing them with hydro, wind, or solar plants, which provide a much longer term solution instead.
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Re: Light Bulb Ban [split]

Postby hlysnan » 2011-02-03, 20:20

Taydr wrote:Maybe time and efforts would be better spent phasing out the fossil-fuel plants, and replacing them with hydro, wind, or solar plants, which provide a much longer term solution instead.


Fossil-fuel plants will phase themselves out over time as worldwide supplies begin to drop. There's no need, in my opinion, for anyone to actively spend large amounts of money on promoting energy efficiency unless you're some diehard environmentalist.

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Re: Light Bulb Ban [split]

Postby Hunef » 2011-02-03, 20:24

Jurgen Wullenwever wrote:This summer, it was hot, so I replaced the 60W lightbulb over my computer desk with a low energy lamp, and the light was OK, but the magnetic field or whatever it was that I sensed from the lamp made me feel ill [...]
No, it's not the magnetic field which causes these symptoms but the fact that cheap/old low energy lamps flicker because of the AC which even though we use a power-invariant three-phase system in Sweden isn't smooth enough. "Ordinary" light bulbs flicker too but the effect is much less dramatic due to the fact that the light is produced by heating. If one or two phases are shut down the flickering effect is noticable also for "ordinary" light bulbs and unendurable for cheap/old low energy lamps.
(NB: Disregarding psychosomatic symptoms, the flickering effect is most likely the cause of the electromagnetic hypersensitivity some people claim they have.)
But the fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright Brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown.
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Re: Light Bulb Ban [split]

Postby hlysnan » 2011-02-05, 11:43

More news!

Low energy lightbulbs 'could harm 40,000'

Anne Milton, the public health minister, made the admission after Labour MP Mark Tami asked if the Department of Health had made an assessment of their effects on people with sensitive eye conditions.

Mrs Milton referred to a report by the European Commission's Scientific Committee on Emerging and Newly Identified Health Risks (SCENIHR), which found up to 250,000 people across the EU with certain eye, photosensitive and neurological conditions could be at risk.

She said: "Firm figures for the United Kingdom are not available, but the SCENIHR statistics would equate to around 30,000 to 40,000 people that might be affected in the UK."

A 2008 review by the Health Protection Agency warned of the ultra-violet rays emitted by compact fluorescent lamps (CFLs), and the flickering nature of the light they gave off.

The former can trigger rashes in a small number of people as well as lupus, an autoimmune disease whose symptoms include fatigue and joint pain.

The latter can induce eye pain and could even increase the incidence of repetitive behaviour in autistic people.

Mrs Milton added: "The Department is continuing to work with the HPA, patient groups, clinicians and the lighting industry to keep the health issues under review."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healt ... 40000.html

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Re: Light Bulb Ban [split]

Postby Jurgen Wullenwever » 2011-02-09, 15:59

Someone who supports the ban on lightbulbs might give an opinion of why frosted lightbulbs were banned fast, while clear lightbulbs got to stay in the market for another couple of years, with the 60W disappearing this autumn, and the 40-25-15 watt bulbs next year or so.

Why not ban all types at once, regardless of clear or frosted, or higher and lower watts?
Chekhov wrote:I don't know about naive worldviews, but Jurgen Wullenwhatever pisses me off to no end because of his extreme pessimism and cynicism. You'd think the world was going to end imminently when talking to that guy.

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Re: Light Bulb Ban [split]

Postby johnH » 2011-02-13, 6:27

Jurgen Wullenwever wrote:Someone who supports the ban on lightbulbs might give an opinion of why frosted lightbulbs were banned fast, while clear lightbulbs got to stay in the market for another couple of years, with the 60W disappearing this autumn, and the 40-25-15 watt bulbs next year or so.

Why not ban all types at once, regardless of clear or frosted, or higher and lower watts?

Actually that doesn't make logical sense at all, their is no bennefit to that. Ultimately frosted vs not froested is a matter of appearance and ultimately, though even the advice of putting the heater on depends on the stlye of heater if putting on a heater is less efficient then getting an 80 watt light bulb, then... you should switch to thise heats that contain watter, or... airconditioning*.

*Even if that means switching to oil, in certainc asses with ellectricity ultimately directly burning oil for energy is more energy efficient. If your heating would run with a radiator on oil but your lamp runs on renewable energy then obviously heating your house with that is relatively fine also feel free to use as much electricity as you need waste ultimately is only the energy you don't get utilitiy from or was used inefficiently.
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Re: Light Bulb Ban [split]

Postby md0 » 2011-11-19, 17:11

Today we received our allowance of free squiggly pigtail bulbs from EAC (Electric Authority of Cyprus.
They give ten bulbs every 4 years to each "home" customer. They are giving 20W "Warm White" bulbs, which are kinda yellowish, but I changed my 12W "daylight" bulb anyway, cause I always found it kinda dark. We will reuse the 12W bulb somewhere else.
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Re: Light Bulb Ban [split]

Postby Hunef » 2011-11-19, 23:38

meidei wrote:They give ten bulbs every 4 years to each "home" customer.
They are really that complicated to buy in the closest supermarket? :hmm:
But the fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright Brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown.
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Re: legalize all drugs

Postby Leviwosc » 2011-11-20, 20:26

Formiko wrote:I'm surprised someone from a socialist country thinks like you.


I'm surprised that Americans don't seem to have a clue about socialism, communism and the differences between these two terms. Do Americans learn anything about politics or do they just copy the bullsh*t what is told them by the republican party? Really, sometimes it's pathetic how ignorant some Americans are about politics in Europe.

Sweden has a centre-right conservative government at the moment. Before this government the Swedish governments were always formed by mainly social-democrats, which is something else than socialists.

It's not a crime to read a bit about European politics.
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Re: Light Bulb Ban [split]

Postby johntm » 2011-11-20, 20:30

We have our own massive god damned country to deal with, we normally don't care about the ins and outs of European politics unless it directly affects us (or unless an individual has an interest in it).
Why are you being such an ass?
And it can be pretty pathetic how ignorant some Europeans are about politics in America.
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Re: Light Bulb Ban [split]

Postby Leviwosc » 2011-11-20, 20:40

johntm wrote:We have our own massive god damned country to deal with, we normally don't care about the ins and outs of European politics unless it directly affects us (or unless an individual has an interest in it).
Why are you being such an ass?
And it can be pretty pathetic how ignorant some Europeans are about politics in America.


Well if you deal with your big country, do us a favour and don't try to talk about socialism or communism if you don't have a clue what it is. I'm really fed up by Americans who call everything socialist or communistic if it's slightly more leftish than the democratic party in the US.

I do not talk about American politics, honestly, I do not care what you folks do there at the other side of the ocean.
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Re: Light Bulb Ban [split]

Postby johntm » 2011-11-20, 20:47

Simply because I'm American I automatically don't know what socialism and communism are and can't talk about them? Lol
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