Light Bulb Ban [split]

This forum is the place to have more serious discussions about politics and religion, and your opinions thereof. Be courteous!

Moderator: Forum Administrators

Forum rules
When a registered user insults another person (user or not), nation, political group or religious group, s/he will be deprived of her/his permission to post in the forum. That user has the right to re-register one week after s/he has lost the permission. Further violations will result in longer prohibitions.

By default, you are automatically registered to post in this forum. However, users cannot post in the politics forum during the first week after registration. Users can also not make their very first post in the politics forum.
User avatar
BlackZ
Posts: 1115
Joined: 2010-07-16, 20:53
Real Name: JSR
Gender: male
Country: BR Brazil (Brasil)
Contact:

Re: Light Bulb Ban [split]

Postby BlackZ » 2013-02-28, 20:06

Some years ago, a energy shortage forced the Brazilian government to enact a law that introduced a rationing system in my country. Basically, everyone was forced to use 10% less energy than their own average use from one year before. Those who weren't able to accomplish that target were fined heavily.

I can remember that the way most people found to meet this target was changing those light bulbs by fluorescent lamps. After that, most people kept using the less energy consuming alternative, which is quite nice.
Native: [flag=]pt-br[/flag]
Learning: [flag=]en-us[/flag] [flag=]fr[/flag] [flag=]ja[/flag] [flag=]es[/flag] [flag=]ca[/flag] [flag=]de[/flag]

User avatar
Jurgen Wullenwever
Posts: 2854
Joined: 2009-04-10, 19:32
Gender: male
Country: SE Sweden (Sverige)

Re: Light Bulb Ban [split]

Postby Jurgen Wullenwever » 2013-02-28, 20:53

meidei wrote:I'd go with a law similar to car ownership tax, where older, inefficient models cost more to own than the newer, more efficient and environment-friendly.
BlackZ wrote:everyone was forced to use 10% less energy than their own average use from one year before. Those who weren't able to accomplish that target were fined heavily.

I can remember that the way most people found to meet this target was changing those light bulbs by fluorescent lamps. After that, most people kept using the less energy consuming alternative

But how much energy was consumed when producing these new lamps and cars, compared with keeping the old ones?

That kind of rationing seems ill-conceived, since those who had already minimised their consumption would fare badly.
Chekhov wrote:I don't know about naive worldviews, but Jurgen Wullenwhatever pisses me off to no end because of his extreme pessimism and cynicism. You'd think the world was going to end imminently when talking to that guy.

Jag är rebell: jag sockrar teet, saltar maten, cyklar utan hjälm, och tänder glödlampor.
(Ovanstående var förut, nu försöker jag minska sockret och saltet.)

User avatar
BlackZ
Posts: 1115
Joined: 2010-07-16, 20:53
Real Name: JSR
Gender: male
Country: BR Brazil (Brasil)
Contact:

Re: Light Bulb Ban [split]

Postby BlackZ » 2013-03-01, 11:30

Jurgen Wullenwever wrote:That kind of rationing seems ill-conceived, since those who had already minimised their consumption would fare badly.

I forgot to say that people who had an average consumption lower than 100 kilowatts/hour were allowed to stay out from the rationing.
Jurgen Wullenwever wrote:But how much energy was consumed when producing these new lamps and cars, compared with keeping the old ones?

Sorry, I don't know. As companies were also required to join the rationing, including lamp makers, it means that either:
-Producing those lamps isn't more energy consuming than producing the old light bulbs;
-Profits by selling fluorescent lamps surpased the fines that they got by not accomplishing the rationing target;
-The government isented fluorescent lamp makers from the rationing.

I searched about the subject, but I couldn't find anything useful yet.
Native: [flag=]pt-br[/flag]
Learning: [flag=]en-us[/flag] [flag=]fr[/flag] [flag=]ja[/flag] [flag=]es[/flag] [flag=]ca[/flag] [flag=]de[/flag]

User avatar
JackFrost
Forum Administrator
Posts: 16240
Joined: 2004-11-08, 21:00
Real Name: Jack Frost
Gender: male
Location: Montréal, Québec
Country: CA Canada (Canada)

Re: Light Bulb Ban [split]

Postby JackFrost » 2013-03-01, 18:14

^^^ All sounds normal since energy-efficient products are becoming more required in my country. Most especially electronics. So, yeah, the benefits would be avoiding not to have to build more power plants than needed (especially not to put them in the Amazon rainforest if we talk about the Brazilian case). And my wallet would be a bit heavier with extra cash too. Win win win.

Of course, unless it concerns light bulbs... the thorn in Jurgen's life, apparently.
Neferuj paħujkij!

User avatar
Jurgen Wullenwever
Posts: 2854
Joined: 2009-04-10, 19:32
Gender: male
Country: SE Sweden (Sverige)

Re: Light Bulb Ban [split]

Postby Jurgen Wullenwever » 2013-03-02, 0:51

JackFrost wrote:Of course, unless it concerns light bulbs... the thorn in Jurgen's life, apparently.

No, it was about democracy and individual freedom of choice, not any particular item. The alleged purpose of banning lightbulbs was to lessen electricity consumption, but simply phasing out one product does not achieve anything. The consumers can consume more energy with other lamps, so the whole affair was just a way of oppressing the people.

BlackZ wrote:I forgot to say that people who had an average consumption lower than 100 kilowatts/hour were allowed to stay out from the rationing.

I do not understand the measurements here. :? Should it not be more like "100 kWh/month"? In 2009, the Brazilian average per capita was 7 kWh/day.
Chekhov wrote:I don't know about naive worldviews, but Jurgen Wullenwhatever pisses me off to no end because of his extreme pessimism and cynicism. You'd think the world was going to end imminently when talking to that guy.

Jag är rebell: jag sockrar teet, saltar maten, cyklar utan hjälm, och tänder glödlampor.
(Ovanstående var förut, nu försöker jag minska sockret och saltet.)

User avatar
md0
Posts: 7595
Joined: 2010-08-08, 19:56
Country: FI Finland (Suomi)

Re: Light Bulb Ban [split]

Postby md0 » 2013-03-02, 1:27

Yeah, they would need more lamps (orders of magnitude more) to consume the same amount of energy. They most probably don't need 1000 lamps in their houses, maybe only 50 (or 10 for a flat). So, unless they want to spite EU for mandating more efficient lamps, they are not going to consume more energy.

Also, newer technologies, being more efficient, are also quicker to counter their cost of production.
This is discussed for example in the context of solar panels. Some older types of solar panels take years to turn out net profit in regard of energy and cost, while newer and more efficient types of solar panels produce net results sooner.
"If you like your clause structure, you can keep your clause structure"
Stable: Cypriot Greek (el-cy)Standard Modern Greek (el)English (en) Current: Standard German (de)Elementary Finnish (fi)
For fun: Legacy: France French (fr)Japanese (ja)Standard Turkish (tr)

User avatar
BlackZ
Posts: 1115
Joined: 2010-07-16, 20:53
Real Name: JSR
Gender: male
Country: BR Brazil (Brasil)
Contact:

Re: Light Bulb Ban [split]

Postby BlackZ » 2013-03-02, 12:56

Jurgen Wullenwever wrote:Should it not be more like "100 kWh/month"?

Yes, that was what I meant.
Native: [flag=]pt-br[/flag]
Learning: [flag=]en-us[/flag] [flag=]fr[/flag] [flag=]ja[/flag] [flag=]es[/flag] [flag=]ca[/flag] [flag=]de[/flag]

User avatar
johnklepac
Posts: 2809
Joined: 2012-12-06, 2:18
Real Name: Your Onions
Gender: male
Location: Chicago/Southwest Ohio
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Light Bulb Ban [split]

Postby johnklepac » 2013-03-04, 2:45

Jurgen Wullenwever wrote:There is no reason whatsoever to ban lightbulbs. If you want to consume less energy, then introduce rationing or higher prices or something else that might have some effect, instead of oppressing people.

How many kWh a year would every person be allowed to consume?

Now that I think about it, I wouldn't support it. That was a pretty hasty decision, actually. But I do think we need serious regulations worldwide on the kinds of bulbs that can be manufactured, just as there are in many places with cars.

User avatar
TeneReef
Posts: 3073
Joined: 2010-04-17, 23:22
Gender: male
Location: Kampor
Country: HR Croatia (Hrvatska)

Re: Light Bulb Ban [split]

Postby TeneReef » 2013-03-06, 1:13

More on artificial light and melatonin:

Exposure to yellow light did not alter the increase of melatonin in saliva compared to dim light baseline during (38 ± 27 pg/mL vs. 39 ± 23 pg/mL) and after light exposure (39 ± 22 pg/mL vs. 44 ± 26 pg/mL). In contrast, lighting conditions including blue components reduced melatonin increase significantly both during (office daylight white: 25 ± 16 pg/mL, bathroom daylight white: 24 ± 10 pg/mL, Planon warm white: 26 ± 14 pg/mL, hall daylight white: 22 ± 14 pg/mL) and after light exposure.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23358248



Nighttime melatonin suppression tests (n = 627) were completed with wavelengths from 420 to 600 nm. The data were fit to eight univariant, sigmoidal fluence-response curves (R(2) = 0.81-0.95). The action spectrum constructed from these data fit an opsin template (R(2) = 0.91), which identifies 446-477 nm as the most potent wavelength region providing circadian input for regulating melatonin secretion. The results suggest that, in humans, a single photopigment may be primarily responsible for melatonin suppression, and its peak absorbance appears to be distinct from that of rod and cone cell photopigments for vision
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11487664


I just hate cold white and blue light.
I used to work at a military hospital, and they used artificial white light all the time,
even in daytime (since the hospital had no windows for security reasons). My eyes were always sore,
and I was feeling kinda depressed. Some people can tolerate this part of spectrum well,
but I can't. My eyes sense this cold white and blue light as something poisonous. :?

Some more ''popular'' links:

Blue light disrupts ability to sleep, research shows
http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?secti ... id=8779461

Blue light has a dark side
Light at night is bad for your health, and exposure to blue light emitted by electronics and energy-efficient lightbulbs may be especially so.

http://www.health.harvard.edu/newslette ... dark-side/

If you use PC, you can download F.LUX,
it makes your screen look warmer/yellow-orange
http://stereopsis.com/flux/

Ever notice how people texting at night have that eerie blue glow?
Or wake up ready to write down the Next Great Idea, and get blinded by your computer screen?
During the day, computer screens look good—they're designed to look like the sun. But, at 9PM, 10PM, or 3AM, you probably shouldn't be looking at the sun.
विकृतिः एवम्‌ प्रकृति
learning in 2019: (no-nn)

User avatar
Varislintu
Posts: 15330
Joined: 2004-02-09, 13:32
Real Name: M.
Gender: female
Location: Helsinki
Country: FI Finland (Suomi)

Re: Light Bulb Ban [split]

Postby Varislintu » 2013-03-07, 14:29

I don't know if it was mentioned already, but I recently read that although light bulbs have been banned, there's still a special one that's allowed. In Finnish it's called a "ship lamp", and it's more durable than the ordinary indoor light bulbs were. But it looks the same and isn't even completely unreasonably priced. (When I searched I saw one sold for €2.70.) It's legal and therefore available in specialized stores.

Just as an option to smuggling them in, if you want to keep using them.
Det finns ingen
tröst. Därför
behöver du den inte
(Gösta Ågren)

User avatar
Jurgen Wullenwever
Posts: 2854
Joined: 2009-04-10, 19:32
Gender: male
Country: SE Sweden (Sverige)

Re: Light Bulb Ban [split]

Postby Jurgen Wullenwever » 2013-08-25, 20:23

The supermarket had a carriage brimfull with cheap 40W lightbulbs today, perhaps some final leftovers, so I bought an additional ten bulbs as an act of defiance against the government. :twisted:
Chekhov wrote:I don't know about naive worldviews, but Jurgen Wullenwhatever pisses me off to no end because of his extreme pessimism and cynicism. You'd think the world was going to end imminently when talking to that guy.

Jag är rebell: jag sockrar teet, saltar maten, cyklar utan hjälm, och tänder glödlampor.
(Ovanstående var förut, nu försöker jag minska sockret och saltet.)

Патрислав Андреевич

Re: Light Bulb Ban [split]

Postby Патрислав Андреевич » 2013-08-26, 19:43

I've just read (part of) the topic and thought it's so stupid that I needed to comment on this like that:

If the EU bans light bulbs because they are 'inefficient' then the EU should ban itself because it's inefficient as well. :roll:

Seriously, even if I don't use them, I love the freedom of choice. It's my house, my light, and my life. Nobody will tell me how to live my life! :lol:

User avatar
TeneReef
Posts: 3073
Joined: 2010-04-17, 23:22
Gender: male
Location: Kampor
Country: HR Croatia (Hrvatska)

Re: Light Bulb Ban [split]

Postby TeneReef » 2013-08-28, 22:16

xivrox wrote:I've just read (part of) the topic and thought it's so stupid that I needed to comment on this like that:

If the EU bans light bulbs because they are 'inefficient' then the EU should ban itself because it's inefficient as well. :roll:

Seriously, even if I don't use them, I love the freedom of choice. It's my house, my light, and my life. Nobody will tell me how to live my life! :lol:


I 2nd that. :yep:
विकृतिः एवम्‌ प्रकृति
learning in 2019: (no-nn)

language learner
Posts: 634
Joined: 2011-10-15, 18:41
Gender: male

Re: Light Bulb Ban [split]

Postby language learner » 2013-08-29, 18:45

xivrox wrote:If the EU bans light bulbs because they are 'inefficient' then the EU should ban itself because it's inefficient as well. :roll:


This. Just this.


Return to “Politics and Religion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest