Abortion

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HydroProbe
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Abortion

Postby HydroProbe » 2010-12-04, 0:42

Abortion is murder.

Condoms are murder. (kills spermazoids, as bad as abortion)

Birth control is murder.

Tube tying is murder.

Masturbation is murder.

Meat is murder.

Dairy is rape.

Eggs are murder.

Fishing is murder.

Insecticides are murder.

Vegetables are murder.

Lysol is murder.


(sarcasm)

Are those who are against abortion also against condoms, birth control and tube tying? A spermazoid is as much a pre-human as a week old fetus.

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Re: Abortion

Postby hlysnan » 2010-12-04, 0:51

At 25 weeks, there is brain activity in the fetus. When do you consider it allowable to have an abortion?

I'm not pro-abortion, but I am pro-contraception.

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Re: Abortion

Postby Nazīr » 2010-12-04, 0:59

I think this thread should be moved to the Politics & Religion forum. Moderators?
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Re: Abortion

Postby sa wulfs » 2010-12-04, 1:14

This thread is one gigantic strawman fetus.
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Re: Abortion

Postby ILuvEire » 2010-12-04, 6:12

sa wulfs wrote:This thread is one gigantic strawman fetus.

And it needs to be aborted.
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Re: Abortion

Postby Emandir » 2010-12-04, 7:23

Have you ever noticed that those who are against abortion are generally for death penalty?
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Re: Abortion

Postby Formiko » 2010-12-04, 8:34

Emandir wrote:Have you ever noticed that those who are against abortion are generally for death penalty?

not me. I'm against the death penalty as well as abortion. However, abortion is innocent life. A murderer is not innocent.
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Re: Abortion

Postby hlysnan » 2010-12-04, 8:53

Emandir wrote:Have you ever noticed that those who are against abortion are generally for death penalty?


I don't support the death penalty. What happens if 10 years later they turn out to be innocent? They could at least be compensated if they were in a prison, but if they're dead, there's nothing you can do.
Last edited by hlysnan on 2010-12-04, 8:53, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Abortion

Postby linguaholic » 2010-12-04, 8:53

Formiko wrote:not me. I'm against the death penalty as well as abortion. However, abortion is innocent life. A murderer is not innocent.


As a Christian, why do you think you have the right to decide who is guilty or innocent and therefore has more right to be protected from murder?
You could also say that murderers have further developed nervous systems and therefore the death penalty is worse than abortion.
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Re: Abortion

Postby linguaholic » 2010-12-04, 8:54

Moved to Politics&Religion.
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Re: Abortion

Postby Formiko » 2010-12-04, 9:25

linguaholic wrote:
Formiko wrote:not me. I'm against the death penalty as well as abortion. However, abortion is innocent life. A murderer is not innocent.


As a Christian, why do you think you have the right to decide who is guilty or innocent and therefore has more right to be protected from murder?
You could also say that murderers have further developed nervous systems and therefore the death penalty is worse than abortion.


Because as a follower of Christ, we are forbidden to take a life, whether or not we think it's deserved. (this includes war) We never take revenge. Christ says that HE will avenge us. A child is completely innocent. But a murderer committed murder! (hence the term murderer) However, Christ said that if we hate a fellow human, we have already committed murder in our heart. But by accepting Christ as my savior, he has pardoned me! Who am I to then kill someone?
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Re: Abortion

Postby linguaholic » 2010-12-04, 9:36

Because as a follower of Christ, we are forbidden to take a life, whether or not we think it's deserved. (this includes war) We never take revenge. Christ says that HE will avenge us. A child is completely innocent. But a murderer committed murder! (hence the term murderer) However, Christ said that if we hate a fellow human, we have already committed murder in our heart. But by accepting Christ as my savior, he has pardoned me! Who am I to then kill someone?


This doesn't answer my question. You say a murderer deserves death more. Which, according to your faith, is a judgement you should not make. (If I understand it correctly.) Why should a murderer not be forgiven? (Oh, and what if you kill somebody who would have found Jesus and could have been forgiven 2 weeks later?)
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Re: Abortion

Postby hlysnan » 2010-12-04, 9:45

I'm a bit confused. Isn't Formiko against the death penalty? Where did he say that a murderer deserves death?

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Re: Abortion

Postby Formiko » 2010-12-04, 9:49

linguaholic wrote:
Because as a follower of Christ, we are forbidden to take a life, whether or not we think it's deserved. (this includes war) We never take revenge. Christ says that HE will avenge us. A child is completely innocent. But a murderer committed murder! (hence the term murderer) However, Christ said that if we hate a fellow human, we have already committed murder in our heart. But by accepting Christ as my savior, he has pardoned me! Who am I to then kill someone?


This doesn't answer my question. You say a murderer deserves death more. Which, according to your faith, is a judgement you should not make. (If I understand it correctly.) Why should a murderer not be forgiven? (Oh, and what if you kill somebody who would have found Jesus and could have been forgiven 2 weeks later?)


No, I was saying a murderer SHOULD be forgiven. I was trying to explain why some people think abortion is wrong, but the death penalty is ok. The bible says not to judge until you clean yourself of sin first! We are supposed to judge (how else can we detect Christians from non-Christians?). A murderer can be forgives by God (if he asks for it), but the STATE may not forgive him. A person saved by the grace of God can sleep peacefully knowing his soul is safe whether or not he has an earthly punishment. (However, this is not a free pass to continually sin! Jesus told the prostitute who begged for forgiveness , "You're sins are forgiven. Go and sin no more")
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Re: Abortion

Postby linguaholic » 2010-12-04, 9:52

The bible says not to judge until you clean yourself of sin first! We are supposed to judge (how else can we detect Christians from non-Christians?).


I understand this as a commandment not to judge at all as you can never be totally free from sin. Ideally, you should be able to tell Christians from non-Christians by the fact that the former are NOT judgemental. (I don't mean to imply that non-Christians are always judgemental. Just using Formiko's phrasing here.)
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Re: Abortion

Postby Formiko » 2010-12-04, 9:54

linguaholic wrote:
The bible says not to judge until you clean yourself of sin first! We are supposed to judge (how else can we detect Christians from non-Christians?).


I understand this as a commandment not to judge at all as you can never be totally free from sin.


Christians are often accused of "judging" whenever they speak out against a sinful activity. However, that is not the meaning of the Scripture. He was telling us not to judge hypocritically. Matthew 7:2-5 declares, "For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye." What Jesus was condemning here was hypocritical, self-righteous judgments of others.

Plus, while we don't become sinless, we sin much, much less. :)
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Re: Abortion

Postby Johanna » 2010-12-04, 10:15

Yasha wrote:At 25 weeks, there is brain activity in the foetus. When do you consider it allowable to have an abortion?

Here they have taken that into consideration, you're free to have an abortion for any reason until the 18th week of pregnancy, later than that and you need a permission from the National Board of Health and Welfare, and then you need a really good reason for it that has to do with the health of either you or the foetus. After the 22nd week you only get permission if there is no chance of a living baby if you go through with the pregnancy. After the 28th week the foetus is considered a child legally, and if you have to end your pregnancy it will be a c-section and the doctors will do everything they can to save your prematurely born baby.
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Re: Abortion

Postby hlysnan » 2010-12-04, 10:22

Out of curiosity, I want to ask do you agree with your country's rules, and when do you personally consider the foetus to be a child?

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Re: Abortion

Postby Formiko » 2010-12-04, 10:40

Yasha wrote:Out of curiosity, I want to ask do you agree with your country's rules, and when do you personally consider the foetus to be a child?

I disagree 100% with a majority of my country's rules, but I believe a fetus is a child at conception. The Jews even believed that life was in the sperm. (Hence one of the reasons why homosexuality was considered a sin, because sperm was wasted.)
It's interesting to note, that Lesbianism wasn't considered a heinous sin.
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Re: Abortion

Postby loqu » 2010-12-04, 20:21

Don't want to offend anyone here but I'm so fed up with the debate about abortion, it's an ongoing issue in Spain and I consider this whole debate a pretty stupid thing.
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