Random Politics Thread

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mōdgethanc
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Re: Random Politics Thread

Postby mōdgethanc » 2019-01-11, 0:17

I had a similar experience today on another forum where there was a thread about the APA's new guidelines on clinical practice with men and boys. Because the paper contained some language that is commonly perceived as "SJW" and because it pointed out problems with traditional masculinity, the right is currently losing their shit over it and framing it as misandrist radfem propaganda. I realized there was nothing I could say that would change the minds of these poor triggered snowflakes, so I decided to say fuck it and stopped trying.

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Re: Random Politics Thread

Postby Yasna » 2019-01-11, 0:49

mōdgethanc wrote:I had a similar experience today on another forum where there was a thread about the APA's new guidelines on clinical practice with men and boys. Because the paper contained some language that is commonly perceived as "SJW" and because it pointed out problems with traditional masculinity, the right is currently losing their shit over it and framing it as misandrist radfem propaganda. I realized there was nothing I could say that would change the minds of these poor triggered snowflakes, so I decided to say fuck it and stopped trying.

You don't think the APA deserves any of the flack they're getting? I don't follow these issues closely, but this seems like a fair criticism:

The APA Can’t Spin Its Way Out of Its Attack on ‘Traditional Masculinity’
Ein Buch muß die Axt sein für das gefrorene Meer in uns. - Kafka

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Re: Random Politics Thread

Postby mōdgethanc » 2019-01-11, 3:24

Yasna wrote:You don't think the APA deserves any of the flack they're getting? I don't follow these issues closely, but this seems like a fair criticism:

The APA Can’t Spin Its Way Out of Its Attack on ‘Traditional Masculinity’
I think the APA set themselves up for the right to use them as a punching bag by using "woke" rhetoric about privilege, intersectionality, and microaggressions. However it was all cited with copious amounts of research and their conclusions weren't that radical. The backlash is from men who mistakenly believe their whole identity is being threatened. Of course a conservative publication is going to get worked up about an alleged attack on gender roles. But the problem is with the way the APA framed it more than the content.

David French then redefines traditional masculinity to mean good things and ignores the bad things about it in his piece, which is just the opposite of what the APA did.

I have seen some legitimate criticisms of the paper, such as that it approaches gender from a social point of view and doesn't discuss biology. It's also possible that the research they based on it was low quality or ideologically driven. But for the most part, it just looks like more outrage culture to me.

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Re: Random Politics Thread

Postby Yasna » 2019-01-19, 21:33

5 Ways The Government Keeps Native Americans In Poverty

"Imagine if the government were responsible for looking after your best interests. All of your assets must be managed by bureaucrats on your behalf. A special bureau is even set up to oversee your affairs. Every important decision you make requires approval, and every approval comes with a mountain of regulations.

How well would this work? Just ask Native Americans."

"One such difficulty is fractionated land ownership. Federal inheritance laws required many Indian lands to be passed in equal shares to multiple heirs. After several generations, these lands have become so fractionated that there are often hundreds of owners per parcel. Managing these fractionated lands is nearly impossible, and much of the land remains idle."

"Tribes historically had little or no control over their energy resources. Royalties were set by the Bureau of Indian Affairs, but the agency consistently undervalued Indian resources. A federal commission concluded in 1977 that leases negotiated on behalf of Indians were “among the poorest agreements ever made.”

Unfortunately, it hasn’t gotten much better. A recent class action suit alleged that the government mismanaged billions of dollars in Indian assets. The case settled in 2009 for $3.4 billion—far less than what was lost by the feds."
Ein Buch muß die Axt sein für das gefrorene Meer in uns. - Kafka

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Re: Random Politics Thread

Postby Yasna » 2019-01-20, 21:16

Technologie ist Afrikas größte Chance

"Nicht das Silicon Valley oder Chinas Digitalzentrum Shenzen haben mobiles Bezahlen auf den Weg gebracht, sondern Kenia. Fast 50 Prozent des kenianischen Bruttoinlandsprodukts (BIP) werden über M-Pesa abgewickelt, 93 Prozent der Kenianer nutzen es. Jumia hat mittlerweile auch einen eigenen mobilen Bezahldienst, Jumia Pay."

"In Afrika findet man Banken nicht wie in Deutschland an jeder Straßenecke, deshalb ist es kompliziert, Geld zu versenden oder zu erhalten. Dafür besitzen die Menschen selbst in jedem noch so kleinen Dorf mindestens ein Mobiltelefon, manchmal sogar mehrere. Mobiles Bezahlen ist ihre Eintrittskarte zu sozialer Teilhabe: Damit können sie zum Beispiel ihre Miete bezahlen und ganz grundsätzliche Bedürfnisse stillen wie etwa den Zugang zu Elektrizität."

"Ich halte es tatsächlich für wenig sinnvoll, Unternehmen mit Fördergeldern zu überhäufen, weil sie dann nicht lernen, auf eigenen Beinen zu stehen. Gleichzeitig sollte der Kontinent die Entwicklung der Industrieländer hin zu einer rein kapitalistischen Gesellschaft nicht kopieren. Afrika braucht ein ausbalanciertes Wirtschaftsmodell, das beides gewährleistet, Wachstum und soziale und ökologische Gerechtigkeit. Aber ich glaube, das lässt sich weniger durch Hilfsorganisationen, als vielmehr durch einen nachhaltigen Privatsektor erreichen. Afrika braucht keine Almosen, sondern sinnvolle Investitionen, die eine echte Wirtschaft aufbauen."
Ein Buch muß die Axt sein für das gefrorene Meer in uns. - Kafka

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Re: Random Politics Thread

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-01-24, 6:18

I think now I'm even more scared to read the news than otherwise. It feels simultaneously like something I should be doing and a terrible idea. :para:

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Re: Random Politics Thread

Postby md0 » 2019-01-26, 5:55

The pettiest conflict in the Balkans is finally resolved, hopefully allowing the region to deal with its real problems.
Greek Parliament ratifies 'North Macedonia' accord

Full text of the agreement

Despite Greece getting the most out of this deal, 27 years of self-delusion* make most Greeks report that they feel that they gave up everything.

There is one last formal step for the change to take effect, the Greek Parliament should also ratify North Macedonia's accession to NATO. Barring armed revolt against the Greek government, this will definitely happen next week.

Greek media report that already Israel and Canada's MFAs are making changes in websites mentioning North Macedonia diplomatic missions in their countries. That's crucial for the opposition within Greece to accept the conflict is over and come to terms with reality, because the most cited argument against the deal was "no-one is going to stop calling them Macedonia, we are just conceding our veto rights for nothing".

* For most Greeks, the short name of the country was always Skopje and the long name was "FYROM" (scare quotes included). Anything else was self-censored by Greek media, like in this international basketball match between the national teams of MKD and GRE
Image
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Re: Random Politics Thread

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-01-26, 6:18

Isn't it nice that at least it's finally resolved? :)

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Re: Random Politics Thread

Postby md0 » 2019-01-26, 6:41

It's great. I can finally refer to the country with its real name without Greeks feigning confusion :)
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Re: Random Politics Thread

Postby linguoboy » 2019-01-28, 19:02

Whose bright idea was it for the US and Russia to get involved in a proxy war in Venezuela? Did we learn nothing at all from Syria?
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Re: Random Politics Thread

Postby Yasna » 2019-01-28, 20:07

linguoboy wrote:Whose bright idea was it for the US and Russia to get involved in a proxy war in Venezuela? Did we learn nothing at all from Syria?

I have more sympathy for the US in this particular case. Venezuela is in our backyard, so what happens there actually affects our national security in a not so indirect way. Still, history should tell us that any heavy handed maneuvers are to be avoided.
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Re: Random Politics Thread

Postby linguoboy » 2019-01-28, 21:04

I'm especially confused by the timing. If we were going involved, why wait until things got to this point? Why not make more of a fuss about his sham election last year or his dismissal of the National Assembly in 2017? Who is it in Trump's shambolic administration who wants this so much? I kind of expected him to start a war in order to distract the public, but not this one, not one in a country most Americans have only vaguely heard about and don't even associate with a precious resource like nutmeg.
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Re: Random Politics Thread

Postby mōdgethanc » 2019-01-29, 1:42

linguoboy wrote:Whose bright idea was it for the US and Russia to get involved in a proxy war in Venezuela? Did we learn nothing at all from Syria?
About as much as either learned from the Cold War.

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Re: Random Politics Thread

Postby Saim » 2019-01-29, 8:06

linguoboy wrote:Whose bright idea was it for the US and Russia to get involved in a proxy war in Venezuela? Did we learn nothing at all from Syria?


Given that all the people responsible have gotten away with it with zero repercussions what could they possibly learn other than 'let's keep doing it'?

linguoboy wrote:I'm especially confused by the timing. If we were going involved, why wait until things got to this point?


Fundamentally I think it's that the US probably hasn't been the one to decide the timing. They've been trying to undermine the PSUV for quite a while, but from what I understand it's only recently that their base of support among the poorer sections of the working class has eroded to the point where the opposition has begun to seem strong in relative terms, so these latest anti-PSUV protests have been larger than previous ones and the pro-PSUV counterprotests have been much smaller (I heard Maduro called for people to protect the presidential palace, echoing back to the failed 2002 coup which was in part thwarted by a popular pro-PSUV uprising, but relatively few people showed up this time). So the US is just trying to take advantage of a change in the relative power and support level of different factions in Venezuela, rather than directly causing this level of power and support (although of course they've been involved for decades).

Yasna wrote:Venezuela is in our backyard


Image

Yasna wrote:what happens there actually affects our national security in a not so indirect way.


How does your government taking sides in (and stoking) a conflict help in ensuring 'your' 'national' security?

I also find it interesting how at one point you identify with the US State ('our' national security, 'our' backyard), but then you don't ('I have more sympathy for the US in this particular case'). Isn't this like saying "I sympathise with myself"?

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Re: Random Politics Thread

Postby Yasna » 2019-01-29, 16:54

Saim wrote:How does your government taking sides in (and stoking) a conflict help in ensuring 'your' 'national' security?

If it supported the (as far as I can tell) reasonable opposition with a light touch, helping to get rid of Venezuela's disastrous, illegitimate administration, that would contribute to US national security. Alas, a light touch can't be expected from the Trump administration, so really I'd prefer the US to just stay out of this.

I also find it interesting how at one point you identify with the US State ('our' national security, 'our' backyard), but then you don't ('I have more sympathy for the US in this particular case'). Isn't this like saying "I sympathise with myself"?

Don't we all have a schizophrenic relationship with our states? On the one hand, a state's national security (narrowly defined) is its citizens' security. On the other hand, most of us have essentially zero influence on our state's decision-making, and indeed I vehemently disagree with America's quasi-imperialist foreign policy.

While we're on the topic, I'd be interested to hear what you make of Chavismo.
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Re: Random Politics Thread

Postby Saim » 2019-01-29, 19:13

Yasna wrote:If it supported the (as far as I can tell) reasonable opposition with a light touch, helping to get rid of Venezuela's disastrous, illegitimate administration, that would contribute to US national security.


Why? Would getting rid of the US's disastrous, illegitimate administration help contribute to Venezuelan national security? Is there any correlation between the 'legitimacy' of an administration and its contribution to the 'national security' of other states?

Don't we all have a schizophrenic relationship with our states? On the one hand, a state's national security (narrowly defined) is its citizens' security.


As far as I can tell nation-states are one of the biggest threats to citizens' security overall.

On the other hand, most of us have essentially zero influence on our state's decision-making, and indeed I vehemently disagree with America's quasi-imperialist foreign policy.


I agree. That's why I prefer to have clarity on the geopolitical and economic motivations rather than 'agreeing' or 'disagreeing' with individual foreign policy maneuvers that aren't my decision anyway. At best we can resist or oppose our own governments when they invade or otherwise destabilise other countries (and I think popular opposition to the Vietnam and Iraq wars in the US have shown that this can have a real effect), but I can't imagine what the point of positively ratifying these decisions would be when we're not even being consulted, really.

While we're on the topic, I'd be interested to hear what you make of Chavismo.


It's certainly not the worst kind of reformism, but I think that politics of nationalisation and the welfare state have come up against the same problems in the West and from my understanding the 'local democracy' (consejos comunales and all that) and such in practice functions as a bunch of patronage networks. I haven't looked into it too deeply though, maybe I'm wrong. I'm definitely not against reforms or local democracy or whatever in principle, and I'm not sure how much further you can go while staying within a nation-state framework in the Global South.

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Re: Random Politics Thread

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-01-31, 1:58

Saim wrote:I think popular opposition to the Vietnam and Iraq wars in the US have shown that this can have a real effect

I agree about popular opposition to the Vietnam War, but I'm curious about what kind of opposition you have in mind for the Iraq War. I remember there were public protests in the US against the Iraq War, but if I remember correctly, C-SPAN was the only American TV channel that bothered to broadcast them while all the others completely ignored them. I was shocked at the time at how little opposition there was to a war where even the stated motives made no sense at all.

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Re: Random Politics Thread

Postby mōdgethanc » 2019-01-31, 18:05

Maybe it's because I'm from a country which didn't participate in the war or maybe it was the left-leaning media I consumed but I remember the war being popular at first and then becoming very unpopular as it dragged on.

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Re: Random Politics Thread

Postby Yasna » 2019-01-31, 19:59

Saim wrote:Why? Would getting rid of the US's disastrous, illegitimate administration help contribute to Venezuelan national security?

YES. If it was replaced by an administration not interested in militarily intervening in Venezuela.

Is there any correlation between the 'legitimacy' of an administration and its contribution to the 'national security' of other states?

Little to none. But the legitimacy of a government should be a major factor when another state is deciding whether to undermine that government.

As far as I can tell nation-states are one of the biggest threats to citizens' security overall.

Okay...

I agree. That's why I prefer to have clarity on the geopolitical and economic motivations rather than 'agreeing' or 'disagreeing' with individual foreign policy maneuvers that aren't my decision anyway.

Assessing individual maneuvers doesn't preclude investigating the motivations behind them.

It's certainly not the worst kind of reformism, but I think that politics of nationalisation and the welfare state have come up against the same problems in the West and from my understanding the 'local democracy' (consejos comunales and all that) and such in practice functions as a bunch of patronage networks. I haven't looked into it too deeply though, maybe I'm wrong. I'm definitely not against reforms or local democracy or whatever in principle, and I'm not sure how much further you can go while staying within a nation-state framework in the Global South.

Remind me again what you want to replace nation states with.
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Re: Random Politics Thread

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-02-01, 1:19

mōdgethanc wrote:Maybe it's because I'm from a country which didn't participate in the war or maybe it was the left-leaning media I consumed but I remember the war being popular at first and then becoming very unpopular as it dragged on.

No, that's how I remember it, too. But the only protests I remember surrounding the war were precisely at the time when the war was popular, and it's always seemed to me that they were not at all successful in influencing public opinion. The war was at best terribly thought out from the start, so of course it ended up being unpopular.


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