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I'm just making this poll to gauge what this forum thinks about a topic I've discussed elsewhere and which is very controversial within Europe.

Talib wrote:I'm just making this poll to gauge what this forum thinks about a topic I've discussed elsewhere and which is very controversial within Europe.

What is the benefit of joining the E.U. anyway? So they can end up like Greece? What can the EU offer Turkey that they can't do themselves?

Turkey is the connection who EU needs with Middle East.

What is the benefit of joining the E.U. anyway? So they can end up like Greece? What can the EU offer Turkey that they can't do themselves?

A better human rights record, for one.

You might ask why any country would want to join the EU. Who wouldn't want access to the world's largest internal market?

Talib wrote:

What is the benefit of joining the E.U. anyway? So they can end up like Greece? What can the EU offer Turkey that they can't do themselves?

A better human rights record, for one.

Why can't Turkey just fix their own human rights? Why would they need the EU to do it for them?

You might ask why any country would want to join the EU. Who wouldn't want access to the world's largest internal market?

Why can't they access it now? So if you're not in the EU, you can't sell to the EU? Sounds very exclusive.

Why can't Turkey just fix their own human rights? Why would they need the EU to do it for them?

It appears so far they haven't had much success. Harmonization with the EU's laws might be good for Turkey.

Why can't they access it now? So if you're not in the EU, you can't sell to the EU? Sounds very exclusive.

No, but they would be privy to the EU's trade agreements and common market. Being exclusive is sort of the point.

I think Turkey can join the EU now.

Talib wrote:

Why can't they access it now? So if you're not in the EU, you can't sell to the EU? Sounds very exclusive.

No, but they would be privy to the EU's trade agreements and common market. Being exclusive is sort of the point.

This is an honest question. If Canada decided to secede from England, could Canada survive? I think it would, but I really don't know how much cash the UK gives to Canada. It's sort of odd if you think about it. Other kingdoms conquered other countries and FORCED them to be a part of their Empire, and then they revolted. Now countries are begging to join an Empire, and being denied!! Amazing!

Meera wrote:I think Turkey can join the EU now.

Not while people can still go to jail for maligning Turkishness and Ataturk.

Turkey can into UEFA
Turkey can into Eurovision
So, Turkey can into EU either

Formiko wrote:

Talib wrote:

Why can't they access it now? So if you're not in the EU, you can't sell to the EU? Sounds very exclusive.

No, but they would be privy to the EU's trade agreements and common market. Being exclusive is sort of the point.

This is an honest question. If Canada decided to secede from England, could Canada survive? I think it would, but I really don't know how much cash the UK gives to Canada. It's sort of odd if you think about it. Other kingdoms conquered other countries and FORCED them to be a part of their Empire, and then they revolted. Now countries are begging to join an Empire, and being denied!! Amazing!

what

Turkey can into Eurovision
So, Turkey can into EU either

So if they can write bad pop songs, they must have a thriving democracy? I'll get Beirut on the phone immediately.

This is an honest question. If Canada decided to secede from England, could Canada survive? I think it would, but I really don't know how much cash the UK gives to Canada. It's sort of odd if you think about it. Other kingdoms conquered other countries and FORCED them to be a part of their Empire, and then they revolted. Now countries are begging to join an Empire, and being denied!! Amazing!

You know Canada's independent, right? The Commonwealth isn't the same thing as the Empire.

In fact we celebrated our 143rd anniversary of independence today! What a coincidence!

And furthermore, what does any of that have to do with Turkey joining the European Union?

Talib wrote:

Turkey can into Eurovision
So, Turkey can into EU either

So if they can write bad pop songs, they must have a thriving democracy? I'll get Beirut on the phone immediately.

This is an honest question. If Canada decided to secede from England, could Canada survive? I think it would, but I really don't know how much cash the UK gives to Canada. It's sort of odd if you think about it. Other kingdoms conquered other countries and FORCED them to be a part of their Empire, and then they revolted. Now countries are begging to join an Empire, and being denied!! Amazing!

You know Canada's independent, right? The Commonwealth isn't the same thing as the Empire.

In fact we celebrated our 143rd anniversary of independence today! What a coincidence!

And furthermore, what does any of that have to do with Turkey joining the European Union?

Canada Day celebrates the anniversary of the confederation, the day the provinces of Canada (now Ontario and Québec), New Brunswick, and Nova Scotia came together to form the Dominion of Canada. It wasn't until 1982 that all control from the British parliament was dissolved, when the Constitution Act came into effect. So I wouldn't call it 143 years of independence, more 143 years of the confederation.

You really don't need to tell me my own country's history. Canada has been de facto independent since 1867. Repatriating the constitution was a legal formality.

Partisan wrote:Turkey can into UEFA
Turkey can into Eurovision
So, Turkey can into EU either

you know that comparing UEFA and Eurovision with the EU is kind of absurd, don't you?

Well, they're ways to get everybody used to the idea of Turkey being European. I'm thoroughly convinced myself.

Formiko, when you trade with other countries you have to deal with tariffs and the like. A common market doesn't have that problem. Turkish citizens would have it easier to travel and work in Europe with full rights. Both are benefits of joining the EU.

Also, being in the EU didn't cause Greece's crisis. It merely reduced the ways they could deal with the problem once it got extraordinarily bad.

My problem isn't that Turkey isn't European - it's as European as Romania, probably. My concern is that Turkey's political system isn't Western enough. A lot of work remains to be done before Turkey is ready to meet the same standards as the rest of the EU. They've had since the 1980s to sort this out and so far they haven't been willing or able to.

Talib wrote:My problem isn't that Turkey isn't European - it's as European as Romania, probably. My concern is that Turkey's political system isn't Western enough. A lot of work remains to be done before Turkey is ready to meet the same standards as the rest of the EU. They've had since the 1980s to sort this out and so far they haven't been willing or able to.

Because the turks are muslim?

Well,

The turkish political system uses the separation between religion and state (effect of Kemalism)
Turkey had dictatorship (like Greece, Spain and Portugal)
Turkey treats minorities as police case (like France and Spain)
The religious factor in politics is controled by the army and by the courts

Summary: Turkey is not different than rest of Europe

loqu wrote:

Partisan wrote:Turkey can into UEFA
Turkey can into Eurovision
So, Turkey can into EU either

you know that comparing UEFA and Eurovision with the EU is kind of absurd, don't you?

UEFA, EBU and EU uses the same principle to accept your members

Partisan wrote:Turkey treats minorities as police case (like France and Spain)

that's fashionable to say if you're an anti-system 15-year-old teenager with a T-shirt with the face of Che and wealthy parents, but it's not really true.

About Eurovision... you're really, really wrong. EBU has active full-right members in the North of Africa, namely televisions of Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya and Egypt, which could never be a part of the EU because of its geographical location, in fact Morocco applied for membership of the EU and it was denied for its African geographical nature. You should get a little more information before uttering such wrong things.

EDIT & ADD: Apart from that, it's pretty stupid to think so, since EBU members are not states but broadcasting companies. EBU doesn't say anything about the political system of the states from which its members come from, while it is obviously an issue for EU.