Turkey in the EU

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Should Turkey be admitted into the EU?

Turkey is suitable to be admitted now
18
15%
Turkey is not suitable at the present, but will be in the future
59
49%
Turkey should not be admitted now or in the future (explain your reasons)
44
36%
 
Total votes: 121

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Garethw87
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Re: Turkey in the EU

Postby Garethw87 » 2013-02-03, 18:41

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey#Religion

That's probably the real reason why
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Re: Turkey in the EU

Postby md0 » 2013-02-03, 18:45

Garethw87 wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey#Religion

That's probably the real reason why

I know it boils down to this. But I want to see how far people will go before admitting it.
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Re: Turkey in the EU

Postby Satsuma » 2013-02-03, 18:51

But what about Bosnia and Albania? I know they're not in the EU (yet), but I think their hypothetical admission wouldn't raise as much of a brouhaha as Turkey's.

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Re: Turkey in the EU

Postby johnklepac » 2013-02-03, 18:55

meidei wrote:
Garethw87 wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey#Religion

That's probably the real reason why

I know it boils down to this. But I want to see how far people will go before admitting it.

Wow, that was really condescending. What if it doesn't boil down to that? (Northern) Cyprus is already there.

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Re: Turkey in the EU

Postby Tenebrarum » 2013-02-03, 19:01

Garethw87 wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey#Religion

That's probably the real reason why

I think it's religion combined with the fact that Turkey's a rising economic and military power - populous too - which is quite unsettling for a lot of Europeans. And from a practical viewpoint, it would be much harder for the EU to force its values on Turkey than some small, weak country like Bosnia or Albania.
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Re: Turkey in the EU

Postby Garethw87 » 2013-02-03, 19:08

Tenebrarum wrote:
Garethw87 wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey#Religion

That's probably the real reason why

I think it's religion combined with the fact that Turkey's a rising economic and military power - populous too - which is quite unsettling for a lot of Europeans. And from a practical viewpoint, it would be much harder for the EU to force its values on Turkey than some small, weak country like Bosnia or Albania.


That's a good point. But at the same time, the likes of Germany, UK and France wouldn't have much trouble standing their ground against any country that is 'unsettling' to Europe. Turkey would be good for the EU i'd imagine. Money, people, and better connections and ties with the arab world maybe... But with the whole religion thing standing in the way I doubt it will happen anytime soon. Personally though I don't consider Turkey as European
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Re: Turkey in the EU

Postby md0 » 2013-02-03, 19:13

I see you removed Albania. They are close, but not in the EU.
The percentage of Muslim that actively reside in the Republic of Cyprus according the 2001 census is 0,6%
Cyprus Population Census 2001 wrote:Population by religion ( % )
Christian Orthodox 94,8
Armenian 0,3
Maronite 0,6
Roman Catholic 1,5
Moslem 0,6
Church of England 1,0
Other / Not stated 1,3

http://www.cystat.gov.cy/mof/cystat/sta ... penElement

Draven makes a very good point, but EU would be benefited from a closer cooperation with Turkey. Turkey is a rising economy and EU wouldn't like to have to be in hostile competition with it.
Last edited by md0 on 2013-02-03, 19:19, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Turkey in the EU

Postby Marah » 2013-02-03, 19:18

Garethw87 wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey#Religion

That's probably the real reason why


That's what people mean when they say they don't really belong to Europe culturally. Europe is culturally Judeo-Christian even though there are many atheists nowadays.

But what about Bosnia and Albania? I know they're not in the EU (yet), but I think their hypothetical admission wouldn't raise as much of a brouhaha as Turkey's.

Their admission would be totally logic since they're completely in Europe.

Tenebrarum wrote:I think it's religion combined with the fact that Turkey's a rising economic and military power - populous too - which is quite unsettling for a lot of Europeans. And from a practical viewpoint, it would be much harder for the EU to force its values on Turkey than some small, weak country like Bosnia or Albania.

It's also the fact that if Turkey was accepted its number of deputies would be second, just after Germany, given that it's calculated according to the number of inhabitants. That's a lot for a country that is not that European by all standards (economical, cultural, societal, etc)
Last edited by Marah on 2013-02-03, 19:33, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Turkey in the EU

Postby Lur » 2013-02-03, 19:25

Marah wrote:
Garethw87 wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey#Religion

That's probably the real reason why


That's what people mean when they say they don't really belong to Europe culturally. Europe is culturally Judeo-Christian even though there are many atheists nowadays.

Because there's a hell of a difference between that and Islam, apparently. :roll:

When I've talked with friends who like people about the Midle-Ages here they pointed out that at points I had a sort of identification with factions of people who were Muslim. I'm like, yeah, that might be because of this and that (normally nothing religious). They told me people normally indentified with the Christians and I had to explain something like: when you've never been a Christian, something like Christianism and Islam look a hell of a lot alike. They share a lot of the same thought patterns. They share a common and similar origin and background. They both expanded and subtituted other religions on their way. And both are boring after a while.

[I have been in Christian ceremonies and it was a total zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. People tell me I'm a cultural Christian, but, seriously, most I know about Christianity is because I had to bother to look it up, my values and morals are my own and not Christian and the more I think about it the more distanced I feel from the Christian world.[/off.]]
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Re: Turkey in the EU

Postby morlader » 2013-02-04, 1:20

Marah wrote:It's also the fact that if Turkey was accepted its number of deputies would be second, just after Germany, given that it's calculated according to the number of inhabitants. That's a lot for a country that is not that European by all standards (economical, cultural, societal, etc)


God forbid such a country should have a proportional amount of power...

The biggest problem with Turkey IMO is its 20% Kurdish population. They don't see themselves as European at all. And if Turkey joined the EU it would be obliged to grant them cultural and linguistic rights, and political autonomy. Which Turkey doesn't seem too keen on.

In spite of all this the prospect of Turkey joining any time soon is very low. It's nowhere near meeting the Copenhagen criteria.
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Re: Turkey in the EU

Postby Lur » 2013-02-04, 2:06

I think I would like Turkey to join the EU.
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Re: Turkey in the EU

Postby Levo » 2013-02-05, 11:13

Being Central-Eastern European, there might be maybe one thing that would be favourable if Turkey joined...
Their workers wouldn't come here, rather to West-Europe. So it doesn't really count for us.
But if they join, and will have a bigger role in EU politics because of their huge population, then finally an EU minimum salary could easier be fought out :P :)
(Kidding)

Hungarian net salaries currently stand around 28% of those in Austria. (Statistical Offices)
With approaching and similar prices to those in Austria already.
Soooo, I'd be very happy for a minimum salary of, let's say, as much as 750€ net per month. My - locally - high salary would rise :D

Seriously guys, until living conditions are so far from each other within EU member states, you'll have tensions in the more developed part of Europe, having immigrants being very different from you.

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Re: Turkey in the EU

Postby TeneReef » 2013-02-12, 1:26

Garethw87 wrote:That's a good point. But at the same time, the likes of Germany, UK and France wouldn't have much trouble standing their ground against any country that is 'unsettling' to Europe. Turkey would be good for the EU i'd imagine. Money, people, and better connections and ties with the arab world maybe... But with the whole religion thing standing in the way I doubt it will happen anytime soon. Personally though I don't consider Turkey as European


Many people wouldn't consider Turkey as a part of ''North Atlantic'' but it is in NATO. :whistle:
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Re: Turkey in the EU

Postby JackFrost » 2013-02-12, 1:31

No country considers itself part of the North Atlantic.

It's an ocean, not a landmass. :roll:
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Re: Turkey in the EU

Postby TeneReef » 2013-02-12, 1:33

But why is it okay to be a part of a military union, but not a part of an economic union?

Turkish economy is in a better shape than Italian, Spanish, Portuguese...
As for corruption, it wasn't important at all in the Romanian and in the Bulgarian case...Brussels didn't say anything and let them in...

Minorities...Hungarian minority in Romania is discriminated against, but it did not matter. Brussels didn't care...The position of Roma people in Romania and Bulgaria is far worse than the position of Kurds in Turkey, yet Brussels didn't care.

Crime & Security...
Southern Italy is more lawless than Eastern Turkey...And there's mafia:
http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/new ... 210700.ece

http://www.theguardian.pe.ca/News/Canad ... ks-cable/1
"If it were not part of Italy, Calabria would be a failed state," one cable began, noting that the 'ndrangheta's drug trafficking, extortion and money laundering activities accounted for at least 3 per cent of Italy's gross domestic product.
Last edited by TeneReef on 2013-02-12, 1:57, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Turkey in the EU

Postby JackFrost » 2013-02-12, 1:46

Because for some reason, the Mediterranean Sea is sometimes considered to be part of the Atlantic.

idk North Atlantic is not a cultural and historical term like European, so it's just a geographical one.
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Re: Turkey in the EU

Postby Itikar » 2013-02-12, 2:03

TeneReef wrote:Crime & Security...
Southern Italy is more lawless than Eastern Turkey...And there's mafia:


You can find it also in the North nowadays, especially in big cities. :P
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Re: Turkey in the EU

Postby Levo » 2013-02-12, 10:11

TeneReef wrote:As for corruption, it wasn't important at all in the Romanian and in the Bulgarian case...Brussels didn't say anything and let them in...

Minorities...Hungarian minority in Romania is discriminated against, but it did not matter. Brussels didn't care...The position of Roma people in Romania and Bulgaria is far worse than the position of Kurds in Turkey, yet Brussels didn't care.

I agree. That's the point...

TeneReef wrote:Turkish economy is in a better shape than Italian, Spanish, Portuguese...

Maybe in better "shape" but not as productive, machinized, well-equipped and wealthy as those, nevertheless their crisis.
GDP/capita is uncomparable with that of Spain or Italy. And salaries in Turkey are still around half of those in Portugal (with similar prices), and third of those in Italy.

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Re: Turkey in the EU

Postby loqu » 2013-03-10, 21:07

Tenebrarum wrote:Turkey might not resemble Spain or Italy, but it sure looks similar to Greece, Cyprus and Balkan countries to me (especially Albania). Or should I say it's largely the other way around - those cultures have traces of Turkish-ness due to Ottoman influence?

This.
Satsuma wrote:brouhaha

Loved that word.

In general I agree with what Luke has been saying.

I'm all for Turkish integration in the EU, but that's kind of hypocritical on my part since I'm starting to seriously doubt the advantages of belonging to the EU.
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Re: Turkey in the EU

Postby Hoogstwaarschijnlijk » 2013-03-20, 14:26

As long as Turkey is accusing other countries of stealing and abusing their children I don't think there will be a big chance they will belong to the EU.
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