Turkey in the EU

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Should Turkey be admitted into the EU?

Turkey is suitable to be admitted now
18
15%
Turkey is not suitable at the present, but will be in the future
59
49%
Turkey should not be admitted now or in the future (explain your reasons)
44
36%
 
Total votes: 121

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Elaine
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Re: Turkey in the EU

Postby Elaine » 2013-06-14, 18:51

I'm actually very young to speak about politics, but I don't think that Turkey should be a member of the European Union. I think like this, because we need a better economy. That is my opinion, don't take it seriously.
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Re: Turkey in the EU

Postby Saim » 2013-06-15, 9:55

boracasli wrote:I'm actually very young to speak about politics,

You're never too young to talk about politics. If you don't talk about it with people, how are you meant to learn about it?

boracasli wrote:I think like this, because we need a better economy.

Better economy = out of EU? Why?

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Re: Turkey in the EU

Postby Marah » 2013-06-15, 11:08

Or maybe he thinks they need to have a better economy first and then join the EU.
Par exemple, l'enfant croit au Père Noël. L'adulte non. L'adulte ne croit pas au Père Noël. Il vote.

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Re: Turkey in the EU

Postby mōdgethanc » 2013-06-15, 13:54

Turkey's economy seems to be doing fine without the EU. If I were a Eurocrat, I'd be more worried about their human rights record.

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Re: Turkey in the EU

Postby IpseDixit » 2013-06-16, 17:37

mōdgethanc wrote:Turkey's economy seems to be doing fine without the EU. If I were a Eurocrat, I'd be more worried about their human rights record.


Yep, it would drive me mad if, to please Turkey, the EU would take back its stance on the Armenian genocide...

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Re: Turkey in the EU

Postby Hoogstwaarschijnlijk » 2013-06-17, 8:45

mōdgethanc wrote:Turkey's economy seems to be doing fine without the EU. If I were a Eurocrat, I'd be more worried about their human rights record.

Turkey's economy is booming, in contrary of most European countries. It's indeed the human rights that seems to be the problem if they'd like to get in the EU. It seems to become more conservative in stead of progressive. Then again, plenty of very conservative countries are in the EU now, so I don't know. Apparently it doesn't work like that, but I think it would have been nice if the EU was used for progressing in human rights and stuff like that.
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Re: Turkey in the EU

Postby mōdgethanc » 2013-06-17, 14:41

Aren't there standards that countries have to meet before they can join, and Turkey just hasn't met them yet?

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Re: Turkey in the EU

Postby Levo » 2013-06-18, 11:38

mōdgethanc wrote:Turkey's economy seems to be doing fine without the EU. If I were a Eurocrat, I'd be more worried about their human rights record.

It's not about "doing fine". It's more about the enormous difference between living standards already between Austria and its Eastern neighbours. A lot of tensions come from this difference on both sides, inner and foreign affairs as well.
And Turkey is even worse in this.

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Re: Turkey in the EU

Postby Levo » 2013-06-18, 11:52

mōdgethanc wrote:Aren't there standards that countries have to meet before they can join, and Turkey just hasn't met them yet?

mōdgethanc, it is true in its own.
Note that the most developed Slovenia is also only approaching EU-15 standards in 2013. And my country is worse than them, and things are even worse in Turkey.

As for human-rights, equality, liberalism, tolerance don't even start comparing if you don't want to see sad news. Oh, I was talking about Central-European countries again, oops. So, don't even dare to check Romania or Turkey.

I am seriously shocked sometimes how naive some people are (in general, not the reader :) ), not knowing anything about these.

And if you want to know our side in this:
How should I feel myself equal to a German EU citizen, if I get way worse living-conditions for the same job in same working hours, just because I'm in Hungary?
I'm sorry but I don't feel equal.

The more poor (or just simply not as wealthy) countries you take in this kind of Union, the more millions of unsatisfied masses you make which will cause tensions on both sides.

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Re: Turkey in the EU

Postby linguoboy » 2013-06-18, 15:12

Levo wrote:The more poor (or just simply not as wealthy) countries you take in this kind of Union, the more millions of unsatisfied masses you make which will cause tensions on both sides.

The tensions seem to originate more from the richer countries' resentments at having to subsidise poorer neighbours and accept their migrants (and the poorer countries' resentment of their unequal treatment) than anything else. I think the poor would be dissatisfied either way. It's not like without the Union they wouldn't have tourists flow in from their richer neighbours or see their consumer lifestyles widely depicted in the media.
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Re: Turkey in the EU

Postby TeneReef » 2013-06-18, 18:23

But it was rich countries' stores what killed the local economy: Lidl, Kaufland, Billa etc,
in Eastern Europe, local supermarket chains disappeared because of invasion of German, Austrian and other supermarket chains...German, Austrian, Italian banks and internet/mobile providers (like T-mobile) are like medieval usurers: they benefit from offering poor albeit overpriced service in East European countries, they earn much more money in East Europe than they invest. It's just a new form of slavery/feudalism.

Road to Croatia's adhesion to EU:

EU to Croatia: ''open your markets''
German, Austrian, Italian companies came, destroyed our local economy, and monopolized everything
They offer low quality, expensive service (T-Mobile gives you crappy service for 70 EUR a month,
slow Internet) and usurer mentality ( all banks in Croatia are German, Austrian and Italian, but they offer exchange rates and interest( rates) you cannot find anywhere else in the world, not even in the most totalitarian system). By opening our markets, and having to sell everything to EU-foreigners, Croatia is a EU-colony, and not a sovereign country.

EU-membership is not free, in the first 3 years of EU membership, Croatia is going to give to EU more money than it is going to receive back from Bruxelles/Frankfurt/Strasbourg.

Croatia within EU is going to be like Brazil within the Portuguese empire...The goods and money are sucked away. EU is going to give us some pittance, enough for Germany to say: Look Croatia, you are so useless, you are lazy, and don't work, and we have to finance you, but the reality is opposite. We work, but the money goes right into forEUigners' pocket.
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Re: Turkey in the EU

Postby linguoboy » 2013-06-19, 1:17

TeneReef wrote:They offer low quality, expensive service (T-Mobile gives you crappy service for 70 EUR a month, slow Internet) and usurer mentality ( all banks in Croatia are German, Austrian and Italian, but they offer exchange rates and interest( rates) you cannot find anywhere else in the world, not even in the most totalitarian system). By opening our markets, and having to sell everything to EU-foreigners, Croatia is a EU-colony, and not a sovereign country.

If T-Mobile is so bad, why not switch to Vipnet? How much choice of operators did you have before the local market was opened to EU firms?
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Re: Turkey in the EU

Postby Rivaldo » 2013-06-19, 5:31

The way things are going, very soon Turkey will give up of entering EU, and will try an agreement with China.

It can be a good solution for the growing list of desperate european countries, but they might be declined for not being "asiatic" enough. :whistle:

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Re: Turkey in the EU

Postby Levike » 2013-06-19, 14:28

Rivaldo wrote:The way things are going, very soon Turkey will give up of entering EU, and will try an agreement with China.

It can be a good solution for the growing list of desperate european countries, but they might be declined for not being "asiatic" enough. :whistle:

LOL, NEVER :lol:
I don't mind if Turkey gives up on entering EU, but the whole Asian stuff is a big NO.
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Re: Turkey in the EU

Postby IpseDixit » 2013-06-19, 14:36

Rivaldo wrote:It can be a good solution for the growing list of desperate european countries, but they might be declined for not being "asiatic" enough. :whistle:


The biggest trade partner of China is the USA... tell me what's Asian about the USA...

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Re: Turkey in the EU

Postby Hoogstwaarschijnlijk » 2013-06-19, 14:41

linguoboy wrote:
Levo wrote:The more poor (or just simply not as wealthy) countries you take in this kind of Union, the more millions of unsatisfied masses you make which will cause tensions on both sides.

The tensions seem to originate more from the richer countries' resentments at having to subsidise poorer neighbours and accept their migrants (and the poorer countries' resentment of their unequal treatment) than anything else. I think the poor would be dissatisfied either way. It's not like without the Union they wouldn't have tourists flow in from their richer neighbours or see their consumer lifestyles widely depicted in the media.

+ it's mostly the poor people in the Netherlands who don't like the EU most. And I think that's totally logical. I'll immediately believe you, Levo, when you say that you're living conditions are worse, but that doesn't change the fact that lots of people in the Netherlands don't have enough money to pay their rent, don't have enough money to buy enough food (10% of the Dutch people live below the poverty line). When they hear that their country considers to give millions to another country, they get frustrated.
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Re: Turkey in the EU

Postby IpseDixit » 2013-06-19, 15:04

Hoogstwaarschijnlijk wrote:
linguoboy wrote:
Levo wrote:The more poor (or just simply not as wealthy) countries you take in this kind of Union, the more millions of unsatisfied masses you make which will cause tensions on both sides.

The tensions seem to originate more from the richer countries' resentments at having to subsidise poorer neighbours and accept their migrants (and the poorer countries' resentment of their unequal treatment) than anything else. I think the poor would be dissatisfied either way. It's not like without the Union they wouldn't have tourists flow in from their richer neighbours or see their consumer lifestyles widely depicted in the media.

+ it's mostly the poor people in the Netherlands who don't like the EU most. And I think that's totally logical. I'll immediately believe you, Levo, when you say that you're living conditions are worse, but that doesn't change the fact that lots of people in the Netherlands don't have enough money to pay their rent, don't have enough money to buy enough food (10% of the Dutch people live below the poverty line). When they hear that their country considers to give millions to another country, they get frustrated.


In theory, you give millions to another country in order to avoid worse consequences also in your own country since we share the same currency. But I think the reality is that we're living on borrowed times. Greece will never recover following troika's measures, de facto it is already bankrupt and I honestly can't imagine how the Euro leadership can come to terms with that.

Widely speaking there won't be a full recovery of the EU as long as major changes in the European governance don't occur. Austerity is crazy and goes against any macroeconomic principles. In the 1930s the economy recovered exactly by doing the opposite thing that we are doing nowadays.

Moreover I think that we should start addressing the real problem of Europe: the euro which is an utter failure. More than anything else it's fault of this currency if we are in such dire economic conditions.

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Re: Turkey in the EU

Postby Rivaldo » 2013-06-20, 2:11

LOL, NEVER
I don't mind if Turkey gives up on entering EU, but the whole Asian stuff is a big NO.


I couldn't understand, I don't know what is the "Asian stuff". I'm not being ironic, I really don't know what is this about.


The biggest trade partner of China is the USA... tell me what's Asian about the USA...


I was being, of course, ironic.

The first pages of this topic expose a ideology that mixes geography with culture/religion trying to establish a very weird "euro" nationalism.
Europe is a continent and it's as absurd to suppose an European culture as to suppose an Asiatic one, or use any other geographic reference to talk about human identity or behaviour. Here stays the irony.
The other commentaries contrasting a judaic-christian culture from a judaic-christian-islamic one, or considering EU as a Greek-Western region, while 80% of Alexander's empire is not christian anymore, but islamic, are not less silly.

In a broader sense, ethnic/religion/culture discussion, or, in more clear words, racist discussion, shouldn't be called political by any means. And almost all in this session of the forum is about that.

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Re: Turkey in the EU

Postby Lur » 2013-06-20, 3:34

IpseDixit wrote:Greece will never recover following troika's measures, de facto it is already bankrupt and I honestly can't imagine how the Euro leadership can come to terms with that.

Widely speaking there won't be a full recovery of the EU as long as major changes in the European governance don't occur. Austerity is crazy and goes against any macroeconomic principles. In the 1930s the economy recovered exactly by doing the opposite thing that we are doing nowadays.

Yes.

It's a shame that such level of cooperation on collective work towards happen only happens with a war or something. They even ended up inventing nuclear weapons in record time because the governments actually wanted it like right now.

If someone wins an Age of Empires match with "austerity" let me now.

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Re: Turkey in the EU

Postby Levo » 2013-06-20, 9:25

Hoogstwaarschijnlijk wrote:
linguoboy wrote:
Levo wrote:The more poor (or just simply not as wealthy) countries you take in this kind of Union, the more millions of unsatisfied masses you make which will cause tensions on both sides.

The tensions seem to originate more from the richer countries' resentments at having to subsidise poorer neighbours and accept their migrants (and the poorer countries' resentment of their unequal treatment) than anything else. I think the poor would be dissatisfied either way. It's not like without the Union they wouldn't have tourists flow in from their richer neighbours or see their consumer lifestyles widely depicted in the media.

+ it's mostly the poor people in the Netherlands who don't like the EU most. And I think that's totally logical. I'll immediately believe you, Levo, when you say that you're living conditions are worse, but that doesn't change the fact that lots of people in the Netherlands don't have enough money to pay their rent, don't have enough money to buy enough food (10% of the Dutch people live below the poverty line). When they hear that their country considers to give millions to another country, they get frustrated.

That's what I understand too. So, if a country like the Netherlands is a member and they take in a country like Hungary, you create a tension on both sides, just for the reasons you said about poorer Dutch, and about the reasons I said about Hungarian labourers.
If we were not in the same union, I had no right to vie for my rights, but this way I have, and of course it pisses off a poorer Dutch :) See?


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