Jesus, Muhammad and Buddhas, Mythology and History

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sa wulfs
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Re: Jesus, Muhammad and Buddhas, Mythology and History

Postby sa wulfs » 2008-10-09, 19:41

You're using D&D for theological purposes? That's... awesome, actually :lol:
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Re: Jesus, Muhammad and Buddhas, Mythology and History

Postby Formiko » 2008-10-09, 22:31

sa wulfs wrote:You're using D&D for theological purposes? That's... awesome, actually :lol:

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Re: Jesus, Muhammad and Buddhas, Mythology and History

Postby sa wulfs » 2008-10-09, 22:54

Formiko wrote:
sa wulfs wrote:You're using D&D for theological purposes? That's... awesome, actually :lol:

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METAL SLUG
YEAH
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Re: Jesus, Muhammad and Buddhas, Mythology and History

Postby nicofr » 2008-10-10, 10:36

Why were their Hebraics and Hellenics christians in jerusalem before the begining of any mission outside judea?

Was the lingua franca in roman empire latin or greek at that time? It seems more likely it was greek - hence the NT written in greek. Hasn't greece a preivileged link to early christianity? After all constantinople was on their soil.

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Re: Jesus, Muhammad and Buddhas, Mythology and History

Postby KingHarvest » 2008-10-10, 14:48

In the western half of the Empire, Latin was the dominant lingua franca by far. Depending on exactly where you were In the east, Greek and various Aramaic dialects were the lingua franca. The fact that the NT was written in Greek demonstrates that the authors were primarily concerned with a Roman (Empire) audience rather than a pan-Middle Eastern audience.

As for the first question, I can't tell what you're asking.
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Re: Jesus, Muhammad and Buddhas, Mythology and History

Postby nicofr » 2008-10-10, 16:29

It's the begining of Act, chapter 6 :

1: And in those days, when the number of the disciples was multiplied, there arose a murmuring of the Grecians against the Hebrews, because their widows were neglected in the daily ministration.
2: Then the twelve called the multitude of the disciples unto them, and said, It is not reason that we should leave the word of God, and serve tables.
3: Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business.
4: But we will give ourselves continually to prayer, and to the ministry of the word.
5: And the saying pleased the whole multitude: and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Ghost, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolas a proselyte of Antioch:

Another strange thing is that all the sevens have greek names.

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Re: Jesus, Muhammad and Buddhas, Mythology and History

Postby KingHarvest » 2008-10-10, 16:49

I still have no idea what you're trying to ask. It's not that odd that they all have Greek names since Greek was the most commonly spoken native language in the cities of the eastern half of the Empire.
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Re: Jesus, Muhammad and Buddhas, Mythology and History

Postby Formiko » 2008-10-11, 2:28

nicofr wrote:Why were their Hebraics and Hellenics christians in jerusalem before the begining of any mission outside judea?

Was the lingua franca in roman empire latin or greek at that time? It seems more likely it was greek - hence the NT written in greek. Hasn't greece a preivileged link to early christianity? After all constantinople was on their soil.


Constantine lived 500 years after Christ. He was the one who destroyed Christianity. He wanted Christianity to be like human royalty, when Jesus said "No one shall rule over the church". The Jews did it also. The true Christian church has NO leader but Christ himself. I used to be a pastor, but 3 years ago I gave up my ordination after finding out this truth.
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Re: Jesus, Muhammad and Buddhas, Mythology and History

Postby Sarabi » 2008-10-11, 15:53

Draven wrote:
Formiko wrote:Jesus was fully human and fully divine.

It's like saying I'm fully straight and fully gay. At the same time.


"It's on of the hardest thigs to comprehend."

Not for me. :mrgreen: I don't think of God as existing without form. I think it's silly to think otherwise, especially for science-worshipers who consider that God was invented by humans to serve some psychological need. God, then, even if you're totally skeptical about God's "existence", is intrinsically human. It's the old mind-body problem. Some philosophers (and some people on this board) think that the mind is completely distinct from the body. Goes back to Plato and long before that, and it shaped Christianity and Islam. I think this is a mistake. God is as separate from the human as your brain is from your heart: it's just not. Jesus said that "the kingdom of God is within you". He only had to make the distinction of the kingdom of God in order to dispel the ideas in his culture that heaven actually was a separate realm. Unfortunately, Western tradition still has not for the most part figured that out.

What separates the human from the divine, IMO, is that the divine is a transcendent form of human. That Jesus transcended hatred is what makes him divine, to me: that he transcended the smallness of what makes us human, while not ceasing to be human.

I also think that straight and gay are the same thing. :mrgreen:
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Re: Jesus, Muhammad and Buddhas, Mythology and History

Postby Zorba » 2008-10-11, 17:07

I think it's silly to think otherwise, especially for science-worshipers who consider that God was invented by humans to serve some psychological need. God, then, even if you're totally skeptical about God's "existence", is intrinsically human.


How does the second sentence logically follow the first. Am I correct that this is your logic or have I missed something:

I think it's silly to think God not does take a bodily form
I think "science worshippers" are particularly silly
>> Therefore God is human.

It's the old mind-body problem. Some philosophers (and some people on this board) think that the mind is completely distinct from the body. Goes back to Plato and long before that, and it shaped Christianity and Islam. I think this is a mistake.


Why?
Even if the mind is not totally distinct from the body, how does this prove that God exists?

God is as separate from the human as your brain is from your heart: it's just not.


One can get a heart transplant and still live with the same brain, can one not?

Jesus said that "the kingdom of God is within you". He only had to make the distinction of the kingdom of God in order to dispel the ideas in his culture that heaven actually was a separate realm.


This is Luke 16. It is by no means clear that Jesus is addressing the mind/body problem here. The rest of the passage of Luke 16 is often quoted by those who believe in a rapture and direct ascension to heaven:

Luke 16 wrote:Once, having been asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, "The kingdom of God does not come with your careful observation, 21nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is within[b] you."

22Then he said to his disciples, "The time is coming when you will long to see one of the days of the Son of Man, but you will not see it. 23Men will tell you, 'There he is!' or 'Here he is!' Do not go running off after them. 24For the Son of Man in his day[c] will be like the lightning, which flashes and lights up the sky from one end to the other. 25But first he must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation.

26"Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man. 27People were eating, drinking, marrying and being given in marriage up to the day Noah entered the ark. Then the flood came and destroyed them all.

28"It was the same in the days of Lot. People were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building. 29But the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all.

30"It will be just like this on the day the Son of Man is revealed. 31On that day no one who is on the roof of his house, with his goods inside, should go down to get them. Likewise, no one in the field should go back for anything. 32Remember Lot's wife! 33Whoever tries to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it. 34I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. 35Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left."[d]

37"Where, Lord?" they asked.
He replied, "Where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather."


Unfortunately, Western tradition still has not for the most part figured that out.


Thank goodness that we have you to tell us how stupid six thousand years of "Western tradition" is, huh?

I also think that straight and gay are the same thing.


Why?

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Re: Jesus, Muhammad and Buddhas, Mythology and History

Postby nicofr » 2008-10-12, 7:37

I can't find the passage where Jessus says (in susbtance) "the one who has never sined, he throw the first stone"

I can't neither find solid passages about Marie Madeleine, just two refrences in Jean, an neither states she is a prostitute.

And one last question, who is the folower "that jessus loved"?

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Re: Jesus, Muhammad and Buddhas, Mythology and History

Postby Zorba » 2008-10-12, 7:50

See John 8 for "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone". A woman is sentenced to death by stoning for adultery and Jesus says this to prevent them stoning her.

About Mary Magdalene: Christian tradition identifies her with the "sinful woman" Mary of Bethany who anoints Jesus' feet in Luke 7:36-50. But this is only Christian tradition - the New Testament does not say this.

"The Beloved Disciple" is mentioned only in the Gospel of John. It is usually thought to be John himself, but there is no consensus on this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disciple_whom_Jesus_loved

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Re: Jesus, Muhammad and Buddhas, Mythology and History

Postby KingHarvest » 2008-10-12, 15:37

Interestingly, the Pericope Adulterae, despite being one of the most famous and well-known stories from the Gospels, is considered to be a later interpolation by most textual critics.
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Re: Jesus, Muhammad and Buddhas, Mythology and History

Postby Formiko » 2008-10-13, 7:04

KingHarvest wrote:Interestingly, the Pericope Adulterae, despite being one of the most famous and well-known stories from the Gospels, is considered to be a later interpolation by most textual critics.


Are you a seminary student?? I've never heard of ANYONE mention the Pericope besides Biblical students...
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Re: Jesus, Muhammad and Buddhas, Mythology and History

Postby Zorba » 2008-10-13, 7:39

Seminary student? LOL, AFAIK he's a 100% materialist atheist.

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Re: Jesus, Muhammad and Buddhas, Mythology and History

Postby Formiko » 2008-10-13, 8:09

Zorba wrote:Seminary student? LOL, AFAIK he's a 100% materialist atheist.


He knows way too much to be just an idle hater of Christianity. Most Christians don't even know about the Pericope. (Although it doesn't change anything if they knew about it)
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Re: Jesus, Muhammad and Buddhas, Mythology and History

Postby nicofr » 2008-10-13, 15:22

And what about the passage where jesus says to an hungry person that instead of giving him a fish, he would teach him fishing? I can't find it neither.

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Re: Jesus, Muhammad and Buddhas, Mythology and History

Postby nicofr » 2008-10-13, 15:26

nicofr wrote:And what about the passage where jesus says to an hungry person that instead of giving him a fish, he would teach him fishing? I can't find it neither.


Just joking :)


Thank you all for your responses.

Now that I've read most of the NT I'd like to read a few more texts that could help me understanding christianity and its evolution. Would you have any advice? (I haven't read the ancient testament nor any other (christian) religious text)

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Re: Jesus, Muhammad and Buddhas, Mythology and History

Postby Formiko » 2008-10-13, 17:12

After you've read one of the gospels, I would recommend in this order:

Acts
Galatians
Romans
1 Corinthians
James
I Peter
I John
! & II Thessalonians
Revelations
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Re: Jesus, Muhammad and Buddhas, Mythology and History

Postby nicofr » 2008-10-13, 17:58

Thanks, but I was more thinking about the most importants texte pre-NT (one of the various prophets? maybe isaie, he is largely cited in the NT), and post-NT (for instance the history of the various saints, after the IV or th V ad, like for instance st sebastian).


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