Jesus, Muhammad and Buddhas, Mythology and History

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Re: Jesus, Muhammad and Buddhas, Mythology and History

Postby johnklepac » 2013-08-12, 23:48

I saw a documentary once that showed a shroud of some sort that had stains claimed to be Jesus' blood (they talked about the DNA a bit). That's the only real evidence I can think of, and it's not that good.

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Re: Jesus, Muhammad and Buddhas, Mythology and History

Postby linguoboy » 2013-08-13, 3:16

johnklepac wrote:I saw a documentary once that showed a shroud of some sort that had stains claimed to be Jesus' blood (they talked about the DNA a bit). That's the only real evidence I can think of, and it's not that good.

I actually read a book-length popular account of the 1978 research team's examination. It's certainly an interesting object: the blood is genuine, the traces of pollen correspond to what would be found in Palestine in spring, and there is still no generally-accepted theory as to how the image could've been formed. However, radiocarbon dating suggests an origin in the 13th or 14th century.

But even if it were found to be absolutely genuine and datable to the accepted time period, it would only prove that some man was executed by being nailed to the cross in Roman Palestine, not that that person was the same Jesus Christ described in the Gospels.
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Re: Jesus, Muhammad and Buddhas, Mythology and History

Postby mōdgethanc » 2013-08-17, 6:34

If you mean the Shroud of Turin, it's been conclusively dated to the medieval period and the only reason for believing it's connected to Jesus is that oral tradition says it is and the image on it resembles Western depictions of him. It could be a forgery for all we know.
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Re: Jesus, Muhammad and Buddhas, Mythology and History

Postby Varislintu » 2013-08-22, 8:39

linguoboy wrote:But even if it were found to be absolutely genuine and datable to the accepted time period, it would only prove that some man was executed by being nailed to the cross in Roman Palestine, not that that person was the same Jesus Christ described in the Gospels.


This.

I've noticed that the argument that Jesus resurrected from death after his crucifiction is a major selling point for some Christians in the USA at least. Like, that that stunt proves that 1) the Bible and God and divine Jesus are true and real, and 2) that other religions aren't as awesome. This is presented as some kind of proof for those that need proof to believe. I can't understand how they can't notice that only the Bible talks about the resurrection, it's not some kind of historically approved miracle. :?
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Re: Jesus, Muhammad and Buddhas, Mythology and History

Postby mōdgethanc » 2013-08-22, 20:06

Varislintu wrote:I've noticed that the argument that Jesus resurrected from death after his crucifiction is a major selling point for some Christians in the USA at least.
Lol.
Like, that that stunt proves that 1) the Bible and God and divine Jesus are true and real, and 2) that other religions aren't as awesome. This is presented as some kind of proof for those that need proof to believe. I can't understand how they can't notice that only the Bible talks about the resurrection, it's not some kind of historically approved miracle. :?
Know another lengthy book where the main character dies and comes back to life? Harry Potter.

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Re: Jesus, Muhammad and Buddhas, Mythology and History

Postby Yasna » 2013-08-22, 21:12

mōdgethanc wrote:Know another lengthy book where the main character dies and comes back to life? Harry Potter.

Thanks for the spoiler alert!!!
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Re: Jesus, Muhammad and Buddhas, Mythology and History

Postby Varislintu » 2013-08-24, 14:09

mōdgethanc wrote:
Varislintu wrote:I've noticed that the argument that Jesus resurrected from death after his crucifiction is a major selling point for some Christians in the USA at least.
Lol.


I thought it looked weird, but actually I still can't remember how it's actually spelt. :lol: My English is deteriorating. :ohwell: (Ah, with an x -- the last thing I thought of, even thought I must have read the word a few dozen times this year.)
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Re: Jesus, Muhammad and Buddhas, Mythology and History

Postby mōdgethanc » 2013-08-24, 16:57

Don't worry, that confuses a lot of people (including me when I was a kid). If it helps, remember that the word has -fix in it, as in fixed to a cross. Or, it has an <x> in it, which looks like a cross (though the wrong kind).

"Crucifiction" is probably used as an ironic misspelling by 14-year old atheists who read His Dark Materials or something.
Yasna wrote:Thanks for the spoiler alert!!!
I'm not sure if you're serious or not, so here's another spoiler: He's a wizard.

More seriously, works of fiction where a heroic character dies and is (either literally or symbolically) resurrected abound. Off the top of my head:

- The Lord of the Rings (Gandalf)
- Star Wars (Obi-Wan, Luke, Anakin)
- The Matrix (Neo)
- RoboCop (Murphy)
- Pokémon: The First Movie (Ash)
- Superman, and every other comic book superhero ever, including X-Men (Jean Grey)
- E.T. The Extraterrestrial (E.T.)
- Terminator 2: Judgment Day (T-800)
- Star Trek III (Spock)
- Doctor Who (shudder)

Oh yeah, some spoilers above. Sorry.

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Re: Jesus, Muhammad and Buddhas, Mythology and History

Postby Johanna » 2013-08-26, 18:16

mōdgethanc wrote:More seriously, works of fiction where a heroic character dies and is (either literally or symbolically) resurrected abound. Off the top of my head:

- Star Wars (Obi-Wan, Luke, Anakin)

How is Luke resurrected?

I can only see the usual "hero's journey" :?
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Re: Jesus, Muhammad and Buddhas, Mythology and History

Postby Dormouse559 » 2013-08-26, 19:55

mōdgethanc wrote:- The Lord of the Rings (Gandalf)
- Star Wars (Obi-Wan, Luke, Anakin)
- The Matrix (Neo)
- RoboCop (Murphy)
- Pokémon: The First Movie (Ash)
- Superman, and every other comic book superhero ever, including X-Men (Jean Grey)
- E.T. The Extraterrestrial (E.T.)
- Terminator 2: Judgment Day (T-800)
- Star Trek III (Spock)
- Doctor Who (shudder)
The Little Prince (The Little Prince) :P
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Re: Jesus, Muhammad and Buddhas, Mythology and History

Postby mōdgethanc » 2013-08-26, 21:37

Johanna wrote:How is Luke resurrected?

I can only see the usual "hero's journey" :?
My high school English teacher, when teaching about literary archetypes (she used examples from Star Wars to demonstrate many of them) made a good case that Luke's encounter with the wampa on Hoth and subsequent near-death experience (his vision of Obi-Wan while laying in the snow) is a metaphorical resurrection. The scene where he's put in a bacta tank to heal and comes out of it is like a rebirth for him and strengthens his bonds with his friends. This is all part of the hero's journey.

The part where the heroes encounter the dianoga in the Death Star's trash compactor and it pulls him underwater is a similar "belly of the whale" scene (being held in the beast's lair and escaping from it). It reminds me of the part in Beowulf where the hero swims underwater and fights Grendel's mother in her den at the bottom of the lake, the part in The Lord of the Rings when the Fellowship fights off the Watcher in the Water in front of the gates of Moria, and the battle with the giant squid in Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea, the part in Harry Potter where he fights the Basilisk in the Chamber of Secrets, and of course the Biblical story of Jonah and the big fish. (I have no idea why these encounters are often with sea monsters of some kind)

Anakin also doesn't literally die, but after his transformation into Darth Vader he refers to his former self as if he were dead. (When Luke refers to him as Anakin Skywalker, he says "That name no longer has any meaning for me.") When Luke brings him back to the Light Side of the Force, his true self re-emerges and he dies as Anakin (symbolized by the scene where he takes his helmet off so Luke can see his real face).

Pretty deep, huh?
Dormouse559 wrote:The Little Prince (The Little Prince) :P
NO

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Re: Jesus, Muhammad and Buddhas, Mythology and History

Postby Dormouse559 » 2013-08-26, 21:41

mōdgethanc wrote:
Dormouse559 wrote:The Little Prince (The Little Prince) :P
NO
YES :twisted:
N'hésite pas à corriger mes erreurs.

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Re: Jesus, Muhammad and Buddhas, Mythology and History

Postby mōdgethanc » 2013-08-26, 21:53

Dormouse559 wrote:
mōdgethanc wrote:
Dormouse559 wrote:The Little Prince (The Little Prince) :P
NO
YES :twisted:
YOU SHALL NOT PASS!

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Re: Jesus, Muhammad and Buddhas, Mythology and History

Postby dkatbena » 2013-09-23, 3:00

The beliefs from different books are not just identity provider but also category of guides within one of us. Every name that is considered powerful(not all are sacred) has great influence in mind,spirit and emotion and reasonings.As a Christian, The Holy Scriptures containing books of old and new Testaments are perfect history records where events can be analyzed how the CREATOR made everything and how the enemies of the HOLY ONE created a weaker part of creations by alternating the mind/belief about the commandments of GOD.The First part (creations for God/go with Him) is principle of perfecting the status as special creation. The second part(separating from GOD- though insisting they have gods too)is principle of moving away from reality and trying to shape themselves in their own world that do not agree with high standards of First part. There are spirit guides and not all guides can lead you/them to HOLY ONE.(YHWH). The Word that became Flesh which is the Lord Yeshwah is the work of GOD for the redemption of man from punishments-because of inherited sins. He is the one who has the words of assurance/promise for anyone who accept and believe HIM.Even religion oftentimes fails because of the self centered interests of their speakers.So when He in the form of Spirit abides you from reading His words to complete duration of life- you are priviledged one.
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Re: Jesus, Muhammad and Buddhas, Mythology and History

Postby Varislintu » 2013-09-23, 10:51

dkatbena wrote:The beliefs from different books are not just identity provider but also category of guides within one of us. Every name that is considered powerful(not all are sacred) has great influence in mind,spirit and emotion and reasonings.As a Christian, The Holy Scriptures containing books of old and new Testaments are perfect history records where events can be analyzed how the CREATOR made everything and how the enemies of the HOLY ONE created a weaker part of creations by alternating the mind/belief about the commandments of GOD.The First part (creations for God/go with Him) is principle of perfecting the status as special creation. The second part(separating from GOD- though insisting they have gods too)is principle of moving away from reality and trying to shape themselves in their own world that do not agree with high standards of First part. There are spirit guides and not all guides can lead you/them to HOLY ONE.(YHWH). The Word that became Flesh which is the Lord Yeshwah is the work of GOD for the redemption of man from punishments-because of inherited sins. He is the one who has the words of assurance/promise for anyone who accept and believe HIM.Even religion oftentimes fails because of the self centered interests of their speakers.So when He in the form of Spirit abides you from reading His words to complete duration of life- you are priviledged one.


When Christians post things like this, full of insider concepts and jargon, I find it incredibly hard to concentrate enough to even skim read. I don't know why, it just feels like impenetrable text, almost a foreign language.
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Re: Jesus, Muhammad and Buddhas, Mythology and History

Postby mōdgethanc » 2013-09-23, 18:20

I find it unreadable too, but that's moreso because it has a writing style not unlike those letters to the editor that are written in green ink.

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Re: Jesus, Muhammad and Buddhas, Mythology and History

Postby Ludwig Whitby » 2013-09-23, 18:55

You're rationalists. That makes you inherently unable to grasp mystical theology. You would need to alter the way you perceive and understand the world in order to read it properly.

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Re: Jesus, Muhammad and Buddhas, Mythology and History

Postby mōdgethanc » 2013-09-23, 19:45

You mean ignore all my mental faculties? Fuck that.

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Re: Jesus, Muhammad and Buddhas, Mythology and History

Postby linguoboy » 2013-09-23, 19:47

mōdgethanc wrote:You mean ignore all my mental faculties? Fuck that.

Not ignore them; use them in a different way. (Or maybe you meant "rational faculties"?)
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Re: Jesus, Muhammad and Buddhas, Mythology and History

Postby mōdgethanc » 2013-09-23, 20:44

More or less.


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