Discrimination

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mōdgethanc
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Re: Discrimination

Postby mōdgethanc » 2021-08-06, 4:50

vijayjohn wrote:I saw a North Indian guy deny casteism and pretend that "Bengal and Kerala leftists" are just as bad as Modi fanboys. Both sides! :roll:
Replying to a year-old post but Jesus Christ. I can see that argument maybe if he said the Naxalites are as bad as the BJP. But Kerala? Really? Wack.
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Re: Discrimination

Postby vijayjohn » 2021-08-08, 19:17

mōdgethanc wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:I saw a North Indian guy deny casteism and pretend that "Bengal and Kerala leftists" are just as bad as Modi fanboys. Both sides! :roll:
Replying to a year-old post but Jesus Christ. I can see that argument maybe if he said the Naxalites are as bad as the BJP. But Kerala? Really? Wack.

I don't think even the Naxalites are comparable. Naxalites have committed terrorist attacks, but Modi is literally enabling street lynchings. It is much more like Muslim fundamentalist terrorist organizations, just in the opposite direction.

Kerala has a very different history and culture from much of the rest of India. For example, it has not experienced nearly as many foreign invasions as Delhi has. Almost half the population is non-Hindu. Almost everyone eats beef regardless of religion. Lots of high-caste Hindus are crazy for beef. There have been plenty of immigrants from faraway countries in Kerala for thousands of years. Kerala has a reputation for tolerance that doesn't seem common elsewhere in South Asia.

Hindu nationalists, including the BJP, really hate all of this. They have been trying everything they can think of to force Kerala to bend to its will but to no avail. Their propaganda is all over the Indian Internet, so it's hard to find an Indian who doesn't believe at least some of their lies. It's funny sometimes:
They tried to organize a nationwide beef ban. (They are not the first administration to try).
The government of Kerala immediately started hosting free barbecues.
They were like "okay, fine, have your beef barbecues, but I'm gonna have a pork barbecue! Next to a mosque! HAH!"
Nobody gave a shit.
They were like "oh uhhh now we're stuck with all these plates of pork and, um, I actually...don't eat pork either......um THIS NEVER HAPPENED NOTHING TO SEE HERE!"
Malayalees were like "lmao yeah it did. I have receipts. With pics."
Then it started getting ugly. They made the chief minister (i.e. state governor) cave into one of their demands and attempted to sabotage our biggest annual traditional holiday (I'm sure they've done much worse than this as well but can't remember anything specific offhand).
Most recently, during the last round of elections, a BJP official insisted on not using the correct name for my parents' hometown, I guess because it's a pretty big and important town now, but they probably didn't think it sounded Hindu enough. The BJP at the time had exactly one seat in the Kerala Legislative Assembly. They now have none.

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Re: Discrimination

Postby mōdgethanc » 2021-08-10, 9:00

Lmao BJP kind of owned themselves there. What a dumb party.
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Re: Discrimination

Postby vijayjohn » 2021-08-30, 16:48

A new online friend of mine is an Irish Traveller who occasionally tells me about the kinds of discrimination she faces. She was born in Ireland but says Irish people don't consider Travellers to be Irish. Unsurprisingly, a lot of what she faces is the same kind of discrimination that Roma face, especially in the US. One major issue that both Roma and Irish Travellers face is that even their existence is not widely acknowledged, let alone discrimination against them.

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Re: Discrimination

Postby linguoboy » 2021-11-12, 14:45

In his reaction to the Michael Richards meltdown, Chappelle described himself as "like 90% comedian and only 10% Black". I think this article gets at what he means by that. At the end of The Closer, when he asks "the alphabet people" to "leave my people alone and stop punching down on us" he doesn't mean "Black people" in general, but famous Black entertainers like himself, Kevin Hart, and Katt Williams.

https://www.thenation.com/article/culture/dave-chappelle-review/
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Re: Discrimination

Postby Rí.na.dTeangacha » 2021-11-12, 15:55

vijayjohn wrote:A new online friend of mine is an Irish Traveller who occasionally tells me about the kinds of discrimination she faces. She was born in Ireland but says Irish people don't consider Travellers to be Irish. Unsurprisingly, a lot of what she faces is the same kind of discrimination that Roma face, especially in the US. One major issue that both Roma and Irish Travellers face is that even their existence is not widely acknowledged, let alone discrimination against them.


Yeah, anti-Traveller prejudice is horrifyingly common and socially accepted here among a large cohort of the population. It's improving, I think, but it's definitely the most "acceptable" prejudice. As for not considering them Irish - it's complicated, in that to be an Irish Traveller is kind of an ethnic identity of it's own, so it's different from being a settled Irish person, which is what most people mean by "Irish" (which I guess is the prejudiced part, i.e. that the default "Irish" person is specifically a settled person).

linguoboy wrote:In his reaction to the Michael Richards meltdown, [...]


Holy shit! I did not know about that, that is one hell of a racist meltdown! Kind of ruins Seinfeld for me a bit now...
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Re: Discrimination

Postby linguoboy » 2021-11-12, 16:35

Rí.na.dTeangacha wrote:
linguoboy wrote:In his reaction to the Michael Richards meltdown, [...]

Holy shit! I did not know about that, that is one hell of a racist meltdown! Kind of ruins Seinfeld for me a bit now...

It was baaaaaad. That's what made Chappelle's response to it so interesting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kth0UOU5a_M
(Watching it again, I see that I misquoted him. He says "only 20% Black and like 80% comedian".)
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Re: Discrimination

Postby Yasna » 2021-11-12, 17:00

linguoboy wrote:In his reaction to the Michael Richards meltdown, Chappelle described himself as "like 90% comedian and only 10% Black". I think this article gets at what he means by that. At the end of The Closer, when he asks "the alphabet people" to "leave my people alone and stop punching down on us" he doesn't mean "Black people" in general, but famous Black entertainers like himself, Kevin Hart, and Katt Williams.

Black people? I thought he was talking about comedians, especially those without the clout to withstand the woke mob.
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Re: Discrimination

Postby vijayjohn » 2021-11-18, 23:58

As usual, :roll:.

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Re: Discrimination

Postby Yasna » 2021-12-05, 1:38

"It's important to remember that Jussie Smollett lies at the extreme end of a continuum. At the less extreme end are people who routinely lie and exaggerate in small ways to paint themselves as embattled victims of white supremacy/homophobia/misogyny etc" - Coleman Hughes
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Re: Discrimination

Postby vijayjohn » 2021-12-05, 5:22

Right, this is exactly what is most important and the biggest example of discrimination you can think of at a time when you yourself claim to be concerned about the possibility of Chump regaining the presidency, children have just died in a school shooting, and white supremacists recently even murdered other white people at a BLM protest.

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Re: Discrimination

Postby linguoboy » 2021-12-07, 22:20

Elie Mystal reviews John McWhorter's new book for the Washington Post: https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/at-war-with-the-woke-a-fresh-perspective-makes-the-same-tired-arguments/2021/11/24/7dcd37d8-38e7-11ec-91dc-551d44733e2d_story.html. It's behind a paywall, but here are his concluding paragraphs:
Mystal wrote:Framing the civil rights era as a benevolent gift from Whites, he writes: “Segregation had been outlawed from on high, with black Americans not having had to endure the long, slow clawing our way into self-sufficiency regardless of prevailing attitudes that other groups had dealt with. . . . This had an ironic by-product: It meant that black people could not have a basic pride in having come the whole way.” Basic protections under the law are, he suggests here, a gift that Black people are insufficiently grateful for yet secretly hobbled by. In coming to this conclusion, he glosses over the literal hundred years Black people struggled to force this country to recognize their human rights. This is a fundamental misreading of American history and politics — and Black people’s contribution to both. If McWhorter’s readers dismiss him out of hand, it will be because of these sort of ahistorical arguments, not because of the color of his skin. They expose him not as a race traitor but as an unserious person, one either unwilling or incapable of contributing meaningfully to the discussion of race, politics and free speech in modern America.

McWhorter will probably get what he wants, assuming that what he wants is the opportunity to chat with aggrieved podcast hosts. This book will be a pleasing bedtime story to a certain kind of White person who is always looking for a magic Black person to tell them what they want to hear. His solution for White people to “fight” woke-ism is for White people to get used to being called “racist” and walk it off. He elevates being called a racist to a badge of honor, likening it to “Galileo being told not to make sense because the Bible doesn’t like it.” For once, the analogy is almost apt, if misdirected: McWhorter’s whole book is like being lectured by an astronomer who thinks you can study the stars with a kaleidoscope.
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Re: Discrimination

Postby vijayjohn » 2021-12-08, 1:22

If the basic humanity of Black people is so questionable, then what exactly is the case for treating white people humanely? White people enslaved various groups of people, even other white people! They committed genocide against indigenous people and mass murder against people from all sorts of ethnic groups all over the world. In the US, at least, white people even murdered their own relatives over their perceived right to enslave Black people.
black Americans not having had to endure the long, slow clawing our way into self-sufficiency regardless of prevailing attitudes that other groups had dealt with.

I guess I'm from one of the "other groups"? This is so bizarre to read. It's like the flip side of what my brother used to say, that we couldn't complain of racism because Black people were enslaved and had it so much worse than we ever did.

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Re: Discrimination

Postby Yasna » 2022-02-15, 16:58

linguoboy wrote:Elie Mystal reviews John McWhorter's new book for the Washington Post: https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/at-war-with-the-woke-a-fresh-perspective-makes-the-same-tired-arguments/2021/11/24/7dcd37d8-38e7-11ec-91dc-551d44733e2d_story.html. It's behind a paywall, but here are his concluding paragraphs:
Mystal wrote:Framing the civil rights era as a benevolent gift from Whites, he writes: “Segregation had been outlawed from on high, with black Americans not having had to endure the long, slow clawing our way into self-sufficiency regardless of prevailing attitudes that other groups had dealt with. . . . This had an ironic by-product: It meant that black people could not have a basic pride in having come the whole way.” Basic protections under the law are, he suggests here, a gift that Black people are insufficiently grateful for yet secretly hobbled by. In coming to this conclusion, he glosses over the literal hundred years Black people struggled to force this country to recognize their human rights. This is a fundamental misreading of American history and politics — and Black people’s contribution to both. If McWhorter’s readers dismiss him out of hand, it will be because of these sort of ahistorical arguments, not because of the color of his skin. They expose him not as a race traitor but as an unserious person, one either unwilling or incapable of contributing meaningfully to the discussion of race, politics and free speech in modern America.

What a tiresome tactic. "McWhorter didn't cover the entire history of Black struggle, so McWhorter's point can't be right." As if McWhorter isn't intimately familiar with this history. As if the bookstore shelves aren't already lined with books covering this history. No attempt by Mystal to even address his point about the relationship between black economic progress and black psychology.

Even the NYT managed to give the book a fair review.
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Re: Discrimination

Postby vijayjohn » 2022-02-15, 19:42

Yasna wrote:What a tiresome tactic. "McWhorter didn't cover the entire history of Black struggle, so McWhorter's point can't be right."

Yes, when you are talking about what the Civil Rights era was, you need to take into account what led to the Civil Rights era in the first place.

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Re: Discrimination

Postby linguoboy » 2022-02-15, 20:09

Yasna wrote:No attempt by Mystal to even address his point about the relationship between black economic progress and black psychology.

I'm not sure how you can say that when the argument I've quoted above literally amounts to "McWhorter's arguments about Black psychology are invalid because he misreads history". Whether McWhorter is "intimately familiar with this history" or not is irrelevant if he ignores it in formulating his analysis.
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Re: Discrimination

Postby Yasna » 2022-02-16, 16:38

linguoboy wrote:I'm not sure how you can say that when the argument I've quoted above literally amounts to "McWhorter's arguments about Black psychology are invalid because he misreads history". Whether McWhorter is "intimately familiar with this history" or not is irrelevant if he ignores it in formulating his analysis.

McWhorter's claim is that the disappointing economic progress of black Americans has left them without healthy pride as a people. A reviewer that is seriously grappling with the book, and has an issue with this claim, ought to show how the pride of modern black Americans as a people is inconsistent with that economic history, or might even try to demonstrate that those two variables don't have a strong correlation in general for groups. Political history is peripheral to the claim, which is presumably why McWhorter largely glossed over it. (Note: a group can have fantastic economic progress with little political progress, and vice versa.)

In the very next paragraph of the book:
Driving the Civil Rights movement? This we had done, and it worked. But it was about changing the rules, and in a way, this was less useful in fostering true, gut-level, no-questions-asked pride.
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Re: Discrimination

Postby vijayjohn » 2022-02-17, 20:17

He's talking about the Civil Rights era. That is inherently political history.

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Re: Discrimination

Postby linguoboy » 2022-06-28, 15:52

So the USAmerican political cartoonist Mike Luckovich did a political cartoon for today comparing the infringement of abortion rights in this country to chattel slavery and a good friend shared the image. I responded that I wasn't comfortable with this form of appropriation and a half dozen pale people showed up to whitesplain it to me. So fucking depressing how blind white feminism is to racial issues. Slavery comparisons have become the equivalent of reductiones ad Hitlerum, trivialising the horrors of enslavement of African-Americans in the same way that those trivialise the horrors of the Nazi regime.
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Re: Discrimination

Postby Car » 2022-06-29, 19:32

The site is not available in most European countries, do you have any other link?
Please correct my mistakes!


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