LGBTQA+ issues

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Gormur
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Re: LGBTQA+ issues

Postby Gormur » 2020-11-25, 23:32

vijayjohn wrote:Yasna, you do realize that one of the most influential figures in the history of computer science lost his life because of how society treated him for being gay, right? Don't you think he could have accomplished even more if they hadn't done that to him?

https://www.elsevier.com/connect/on-bei ... -heres-why
Gormur wrote:I doubt there was porn before TV came about.

Well, there was. In the Marquesas Islands, for example, children masturbating in full view of the public was fairly common at least until about a hundred years ago.
I probably shouldn't respond to this but I will. I guess it was males, which means it isn't porn. There you go :hmm:
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Re: LGBTQA+ issues

Postby vijayjohn » 2020-11-25, 23:33

The fuck does that mean?

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Re: LGBTQA+ issues

Postby md0 » 2021-07-12, 19:21

https://ipi.media/georgian-journalist-i ... ound-dead/
Georgian journalist injured during anti-LGBT violence found dead
Lashkarava had been badly beaten by far-right demonstrators who violently disrupted Tbilisi Pride on July 5 and targeted journalists who were covering the event. Over 50 journalists were injured, including several who were hospitalized.
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Re: LGBTQA+ issues

Postby Lur » 2021-10-15, 21:56

linguoboy wrote:
Synalepha wrote:(and honestly, I might be wrong, I'm not well-versed in the history of the LGBT+ movement)[/size], "queer" is the result of a well-succeded attempt to hijack and give a positive twist to a word that was used disparagingly towards LGBT+ people in English-speaking countries.

No, you're correct about this. "Queer" also has specific political connotations which other terms lack and which also would be lacking in other languages. I can see trying to import the word in order to preserve these, since it's unlikely there's a word in Italian (or any other language) which conveys them, but that's a pretty ambitious project.


In Spanish it was hip and cool since it appeared (very recently. respectable/academic queers were queer, others were not)

but then

in the last three years it has GAINED bad connotations by being cosntantly used in media and online and in conferences (I'm including here the stochastic terrorism which is actually working) to disparage "the bad lgbt people". Sometimes it's a substitute for the older "ideología de género", the Christian talking point, very often it just means "trans women", and sometimes it's everyone. Asking people repeatedly "but what does queer mean" only to them to literally turn it into a slur through repetition to call trans women with, without aknowledging the words "trans woman" (a win for them), while also openly refusing to aknowledge the actual history of the word has been quite a trip. (it all comes from The Queer Theory ideology, which created us in the 00s. This is why The Queers weren't a problem before that. Queer was never a normal adjective, a slur or anything reclaimed. You're imagining things! ).

So now we've gone all the way from "here it isn't a slur and it's trendy academic stuff" all the way to "please shut the fuck up".

I guess it comes back to the problem that everyone attacking your human rights or existence wants plausible deniability as long as they get away with it. The words will be decontextualized and repeated over and over like a magical incantation, they gotta be always wide in meaning. Otherwise, the words will be extremely specific, to divide (I only want to destroy the bad X. Very typical inside transmisogyny and among LGBT stuff in general). The rules to destroy you will only each do a specific thing, but all of them together will eventually make you illegal in practice. And at no point through all the process will almost anybody say "hey you're being exterminationist here" because NO I'M NOT. SEE. EVERYBODY CAN SEE I'M NOT DOING SO (because the general public doesn't understand the issue).
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Re: LGBTQA+ issues

Postby vijayjohn » 2021-10-19, 18:05

Yikes :shock:

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Re: LGBTQA+ issues

Postby md0 » 2022-06-25, 10:13

A lot of bad news today from both sides of the Atlantic
Zwei Tote, zahlreiche Verletzte: Anschlag auf queeren Club in Oslo
Two dead, numerous injured: attack on queer club in Oslo

Outside Norway's largest LGBTI club, the "London Pub" in Oslo, a man fired around 20 shots at guests on Saturday night. In the meantime, the police are investigating terrorism.


The Oslo Pride Parade was cancelled as a result.
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Re: LGBTQA+ issues

Postby Osias » 2022-06-25, 14:08

:shock: :shock: :shock:
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Re: LGBTQA+ issues

Postby md0 » 2022-07-02, 12:37

My ex-partner is going through some very hard time right now and the trigger event has been that he was subjected to one sexual harassment attack and two homophobic attacks in the span of a few hours when he was just sitting by the river reading a book.

Not the first time for him, and he's thinking of all the victim-blaming points. For me, the homophobic attack part never felt so real before. I knew it still happens even in cities like Berlin, but the closest thing to that I experienced was a man shouting "no homo" when passing by the queue I was waiting to enter a Eurovision watch party.

Harassment, homophobic or sexual, for me was always an experience in private settings. Within family, within an abusive relationship, in the classroom. I never felt unsafe in a public place though, not even in Bosnia (which is the most gay-hostile place I've visited, hence why I used it for this comparison).

I guess I'm posting this in order to process the shock of realising how real homophobia still is.
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Re: LGBTQA+ issues

Postby azhong » 2022-07-03, 4:35

Last edited by azhong on 2022-07-03, 15:50, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: LGBTQA+ issues

Postby md0 » 2022-07-03, 7:03

What's the point of your response other than do victim blaming prefaced by "I don't mean to, but"?

If you feel the need to understand the viewpoint of the side that commits sexual harassment, you are part of the problem.
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Re: LGBTQA+ issues

Postby azhong » 2022-07-03, 7:52

Last edited by azhong on 2022-07-03, 15:49, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: LGBTQA+ issues

Postby md0 » 2022-07-03, 7:55

No. How does that change anything?

You need to think hard about why your first instinct was to try to understand how the sexual harasser and the homophobe felt, instead of the person who was sexually and homophobically harassed.

It's not the sexual harasser or the homophobe who are suicidal right now - it's their victim. So get your priorities straight.
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Re: LGBTQA+ issues

Postby azhong » 2022-07-03, 14:10

Last edited by azhong on 2022-07-03, 15:49, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: LGBTQA+ issues

Postby md0 » 2022-07-03, 14:45

Sure thing pal, stay up your intellectual high horse and both-side the issue while the victims suffer the consequences. You are so enlightened and fairly balanced.
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Re: LGBTQA+ issues

Postby Allekanger » 2022-07-06, 9:27

-
Last edited by Allekanger on 2022-07-06, 12:58, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: LGBTQA+ issues

Postby Aurinĭa » 2022-07-06, 11:23

Some thoughts.

1) Time and place. Someone who just posted about their friend being sexually harassed, and their own shock at it, is not the right person to ask about what may have motivated the people who sexually harassed their friend, and even more so when the poster is part of the same group as the harassed person.

2) I think understand is not the right word. I'll never understand people who harass others, nor would I want to, but that's different from trying to find out potential reasons for such harassers' behaviour.

3) That said, a lot has already been said about why people harass others, and a lot can be found on the internet. It is generally a good idea to try to educate oneself before expecting someone from the targeted group to put themselves in the harassers' shoes and come up with potential reasons for why the harassers harassed.

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Re: LGBTQA+ issues

Postby Allekanger » 2022-07-06, 13:03

My bad. I apologize.

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Re: LGBTQA+ issues

Postby linguoboy » 2022-07-06, 13:34

I feel like these situations always bring out believers in the Just World Fallacy. They want to know what the person did "wrong" in order to be on the receiving end of harassment so that they can avoid doing that and not face the same consequences--never realising that all it really takes is existing in a world that's hostile to who you are. I get that this is way scarier than the idea that, if you "follow the rules", you can always be safe, but that's why we need to support each other in these situations instead of revictimising the victims.

Really disappointed in queer men right now.
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Re: LGBTQA+ issues

Postby md0 » 2023-08-14, 23:03

md0 wrote:For me, the homophobic attack part never felt so real before [...] I never felt unsafe in a public place though, not even in Bosnia (which is the most gay-hostile place I've visited, hence why I used it for this comparison).


Interesting that this were my last comments in this thread. A year later, I'm back to say that now I feel noticeably anxious in public and I became aware that I'm changing the way I present myself in public "just to be safe".

On one hand, events like this and this contribute to a general ambient feeling of danger. Then there's the wave of "Young Alternative" and other even more openly neo-nazi stickers that go up around the city that explicitly state that they are coming after us again. I did also encounter a neo-nazi soapboxing at a park in Potsdam yesterday.

Kind of realised how much things have changed when I felt anxious holding hands in public with the guy I'm seeing lately.
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