Random Politics 2

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linguoboy
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Re: Random Politics 2

Postby linguoboy » 2021-10-13, 19:26

Yasna wrote:Now that we are in the midst of a woke cultural revolution

LOLWUT.

Like, I wish this were true, but as moving my institution beyond performative wokeness into actual substantive change which empowers non-dominant groups is now part of my job, I've seen up close just how limited this "cultural revolution" really is.

Also, kudos to you for reaching out to that tiny deprived minority who don't realise that YouTube or cable news or Twitter of the WSJ exist and would have no other way of finding validation for their right-wing worldview if not for your posts here. You're a true angel of mercy.
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

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linguoboy
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Re: Random Politics 2

Postby linguoboy » 2021-10-13, 19:28

Lur wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:(e.g. one of said friends reacts negatively to the term "Judeo-Christian" because of people using it to deliberately exclude Islam)

Why exclude some of the trash from the trash ideology can, particularly when they're christianity and islam are so similar.

I don't think the goal is as much to exclude Islam as it is to make extremist Evangelical Christian views seem much more widely accepted than they really are. Nobody I know objects to this term as strongly as the Jews I know. (They're basically like "Own your own bullshit and don't drag us into it!")
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

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Re: Random Politics 2

Postby linguoboy » 2021-10-13, 21:11

From a friend's Facebook thread on the possibility of a new civil war: nothing like straight folks longing for the blissful days before people confused "'neutral but not to my taste' and 'MORALLY WRONG'". Yes, by all means, tell me what it's like to have a mere preference treated as an absolute moral failing which makes you unfit to participate in civil society; I just can't imagine what that would be like!
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

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Re: Random Politics 2

Postby vijayjohn » 2021-10-13, 21:43

Wait, straight people have preferences being treated as moral failings? Like what?

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linguoboy
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Re: Random Politics 2

Postby linguoboy » 2021-10-13, 21:47

vijayjohn wrote:Wait, straight people have preferences being treated as moral failings? Like what?

I assume their "preferences" for treating LGBTQIA+ people like dirt and not taking basic precautions against infecting others with deadly diseases, but I'm open to elucidation on this point.
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

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Re: Random Politics 2

Postby vijayjohn » 2021-10-13, 21:57

Ohhh :(

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Lur
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Re: Random Politics 2

Postby Lur » 2021-10-15, 12:10

linguoboy wrote:I don't think the goal is as much to exclude Islam as it is to make extremist Evangelical Christian views seem much more widely accepted than they really are. Nobody I know objects to this term as strongly as the Jews I know. (They're basically like "Own your own bullshit and don't drag us into it!")

Oh that makes sense.

It seems, from reading about evangelical christians online, that they want to appear very powerwful so they can do what they want, but also they want to appear tiny and persecuted so they can do what they want.
Geurea dena lapurtzen uzteagatik, geure izaerari uko egiteagatik.

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Re: Random Politics 2

Postby Yasna » 2021-10-18, 6:09

Lur wrote:I know I haven't been posting, but some of here are on the left are not "mainstream liberal" like at all and pretty shameless about it, and being considered as such (while an understandable confusion without elaborate posting) will always be funny to me.

At least in the US, the mainstream left has become increasingly radical. Name me a radical leftist position you hold, and I can probably find someone advocating for it recently in the most influential newspaper in the world. Part of the problem is that the line between mainstream left and radical left is very blurry, a point Jordan Peterson has often brought up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tFy3mW6MxE

linguoboy wrote:
Yasna wrote:Now that we are in the midst of a woke cultural revolution

LOLWUT.

Really?? That's one hell of an information silo you inhabit. Here's a primer to get you caught up. And since I know you care about these things: the author is a lesbian Jew.

Like, I wish this were true, but as moving my institution beyond performative wokeness into actual substantive change which empowers non-dominant groups is now part of my job, I've seen up close just how limited this "cultural revolution" really is.

What exactly do you mean by "actual substantive change which empowers non-dominant groups"? More forceful reverse discrimination or something beyond that?
Ein Buch muß die Axt sein für das gefrorene Meer in uns. - Kafka

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Re: Random Politics 2

Postby vijayjohn » 2021-10-18, 11:52

Yasna wrote:At least in the US, the mainstream left has become increasingly radical. Name me a radical leftist position you hold, and I can probably find someone advocating for it recently in the most influential newspaper in the world. Part of the problem is that the line between mainstream left and radical left is very blurry, a point Jordan Peterson has often brought up.

Leaving your weird constant gay-ass boner for Jordan Peterson aside, that still gives you no reason to label this entire forum as "mainstream left" as you are effectively doing.
That's one hell of an information silo you inhabit.

You're really not in any position to be talking about information silos.
And since I know you care about these things: the author is a lesbian Jew.

No one cares.
Like, I wish this were true, but as moving my institution beyond performative wokeness into actual substantive change which empowers non-dominant groups is now part of my job, I've seen up close just how limited this "cultural revolution" really is.

What exactly do you mean by "actual substantive change which empowers non-dominant groups"? More forceful reverse discrimination or something beyond that?

:doh:

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linguoboy
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Re: Random Politics 2

Postby linguoboy » 2021-10-19, 17:25

Yasna wrote:Really?? That's one hell of an information silo you inhabit. Here's a primer to get you caught up. And since I know you care about these things: the author is a lesbian Jew.

Who writes things like:
So the tools themselves are not just replaced but repudiated. And in so doing, persuasion—the purpose of argument—is replaced with public shaming. Moral complexity is replaced with moral certainty. Facts are replaced with feelings.
completely oblivious to how well they sum up the what conservatives have been doing my entire lifetime. None of the cultural conservatives around me wanted to "debate" me about homosexuality; they knew unequivocally that it was morally wrong (based ultimately on how thinking about it made them feel) and they wanted to publicly shame and punish those who "flaunted their sexuality" (in other words, just tried to exercise the same right to live their lives which straight people enjoyed).

Somebody who thinks these developments are (a) recent and (b) the exclusive province of the left just can't be taken seriously in the realm of political or social commentary.

Yasna wrote:
Like, I wish this were true, but as moving my institution beyond performative wokeness into actual substantive change which empowers non-dominant groups is now part of my job, I've seen up close just how limited this "cultural revolution" really is.

What exactly do you mean by "actual substantive change which empowers non-dominant groups"? More forceful reverse discrimination or something beyond that?

As hard as it is to ignore an invitation to productive dialogue made with such obvious good faith, I think I may give it a pass just this once.
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons


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