Random Politics Thread

This forum is the place to have more serious discussions about politics and religion, and your opinions thereof. Be courteous!

Moderator: Forum Administrators

Forum rules
When a registered user insults another person (user or not), nation, political group or religious group, s/he will be deprived of her/his permission to post in the forum. That user has the right to re-register one week after s/he has lost the permission. Further violations will result in longer prohibitions.

By default, you are automatically registered to post in this forum. However, users cannot post in the politics forum during the first week after registration. Users can also not make their very first post in the politics forum.
User avatar
linguoboy
Posts: 22508
Joined: 2009-08-25, 15:11
Real Name: Da
Location: Chicago
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Random Politics Thread

Postby linguoboy » 2018-11-08, 16:09

IpseDixit wrote:I don't think there's a problem with giving your opinion as long as it comes from real facts and not fake news, and as long as you make it clear that it's just an opinion, and it seems to me that TYT has always fulfilled these two requirements. I'm not even sure that they define themselves as journalists, I think they would say they're political commentators.

I guess that makes sense if you define "journalist" narrowly to mean "news reporter". I consider commentating in news media a form of journalism. Someone who writes an opinion column in a newspaper is generally considered a "journalist", so why not apply the term to someone giving their opinions in blog form?
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

IpseDixit

Re: Random Politics Thread

Postby IpseDixit » 2018-11-08, 16:41

linguoboy wrote:
IpseDixit wrote:I don't think there's a problem with giving your opinion as long as it comes from real facts and not fake news, and as long as you make it clear that it's just an opinion, and it seems to me that TYT has always fulfilled these two requirements. I'm not even sure that they define themselves as journalists, I think they would say they're political commentators.

I guess that makes sense if you define "journalist" narrowly to mean "news reporter". I consider commentating in news media a form of journalism. Someone who writes an opinion column in a newspaper is generally considered a "journalist", so why not apply the term to someone giving their opinions in blog form?


I don't see a problem with that as long as we all agree on the definition. My impression is that Prowler is using the word journalist with the meaning of news reporter.

User avatar
Prowler
Posts: 1848
Joined: 2013-07-19, 5:09
Gender: male
Country: PT Portugal (Portugal)

Re: Random Politics Thread

Postby Prowler » 2018-11-08, 17:43

IpseDixit wrote:
linguoboy wrote:
IpseDixit wrote:I don't think there's a problem with giving your opinion as long as it comes from real facts and not fake news, and as long as you make it clear that it's just an opinion, and it seems to me that TYT has always fulfilled these two requirements. I'm not even sure that they define themselves as journalists, I think they would say they're political commentators.

I guess that makes sense if you define "journalist" narrowly to mean "news reporter". I consider commentating in news media a form of journalism. Someone who writes an opinion column in a newspaper is generally considered a "journalist", so why not apply the term to someone giving their opinions in blog form?


I don't see a problem with that as long as we all agree on the definition. My impression is that Prowler is using the word journalist with the meaning of news reporter.

Yeah, correct. Thing is, the TYT show looks like an ordinary 8 o'lock news show at first, but turns out they're not just people reporting the news. Plus, even the hosts state their opinions openly.

Anyway, the guy I find the most bearable of them all is Jon Iadarola. He seems alright. Even if he has his biases he seems fair enough. The most annoying person in there is Hannah Cranston. The way she talks just seems off-putting.

IpseDixit

Re: Random Politics Thread

Postby IpseDixit » 2018-11-08, 18:00

Prowler wrote:Yeah, correct. Thing is, the TYT show looks like an ordinary 8 o'lock news show at first


Does it? To me it looks like a bunch of friends talking around a table...

Even if he has his biases he seems fair enough.


Again, what do you mean? If you work for a network of political commentators, and your job is to give your opinion on stuff, then of course you're going to look "biased".

User avatar
Yasna
Posts: 2058
Joined: 2011-09-12, 1:17
Gender: male
Location: Boston
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Random Politics Thread

Postby Yasna » 2018-11-08, 18:16

IpseDixit wrote:Again, what do you mean? If you work for a network of political commentators, and your job is to give your opinion on stuff, then of course you're going to look "biased".

It's probably inevitable that everyone has biases with regards to certain topics. But it's possible for a journalist to be unbiased when judged by the entirety of their work. Linguist/political commentator John McWhorter for example. He arrives at views that lie all over the political spectrum. Any attempt to put a political bias label on him is just shoehorning.
Ein Buch muß die Axt sein für das gefrorene Meer in uns. - Kafka

IpseDixit

Re: Random Politics Thread

Postby IpseDixit » 2018-11-08, 18:42

Yasna wrote:
IpseDixit wrote:Again, what do you mean? If you work for a network of political commentators, and your job is to give your opinion on stuff, then of course you're going to look "biased".

It's probably inevitable that everyone has biases with regards to certain topics. But it's possible for a journalist to be unbiased when judged by the entirety of their work. Linguist/political commentator John McWhorter for example. He arrives at views that lie all over the political spectrum. Any attempt to put a political bias label on him is just shoehorning.


That simply means that he has different biases in different situations. To paraphrase a proverb, two opposite biases don't make an "unbias".

User avatar
Yasna
Posts: 2058
Joined: 2011-09-12, 1:17
Gender: male
Location: Boston
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Random Politics Thread

Postby Yasna » 2018-11-08, 20:39

IpseDixit wrote:That simply means that he has different biases in different situations. To paraphrase a proverb, two opposite biases don't make an "unbias".

Are you equating bias with having opinions that aren't squarely in the center of the political spectrum? Bias goes deeper than that. Someone with political bias always (or nearly always) comes down on one side of a partisan divide. There may be a few cases in history where this is justified, and the other side is simply wrong about everything. But I think the better assumption is that the person is indeed biased and/or hasn't heard the best arguments of the other side.
Ein Buch muß die Axt sein für das gefrorene Meer in uns. - Kafka

IpseDixit

Re: Random Politics Thread

Postby IpseDixit » 2018-11-08, 20:59

Yasna wrote:Are you equating bias with having opinions that aren't squarely in the center of the political spectrum?


I don't know how you got to that conclusion.

Yasna wrote:But I think the better assumption is that the person is indeed biased and/or hasn't heard the best arguments of the other side.


You think so, and that's fine. Personally I don't agree.

User avatar
Yasna
Posts: 2058
Joined: 2011-09-12, 1:17
Gender: male
Location: Boston
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Random Politics Thread

Postby Yasna » 2018-11-08, 21:14

IpseDixit wrote:I don't know how you got to that conclusion.

Then I don't understand what criteria you are using to judge bias.
Ein Buch muß die Axt sein für das gefrorene Meer in uns. - Kafka

IpseDixit

Re: Random Politics Thread

Postby IpseDixit » 2018-11-08, 21:29

What I was trying to say is that an opinion is biased by definition. Otherwise it would be a fact.

And just to be clear, the definition of bias I'm using is something like this one:

- a tendency to prefer one person or thing to another, and to favour that person or thing.

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dicti ... glish/bias

User avatar
Saim
Posts: 5168
Joined: 2011-01-22, 5:44
Location: Poznań
Country: PL Poland (Polska)

Re: Random Politics Thread

Postby Saim » 2018-11-09, 9:27

In my experience the people who think they are unbiased have some of the foggiest thinking.

By the way, I'm unbiased because I don't fully agree with either anarchocommunism or revolutionary Marxism, I think both sides have some good arguments. Do I get rationalism points?

User avatar
md0
Posts: 7400
Joined: 2010-08-08, 19:56
Country: CY Cyprus (Κύπρος / Kıbrıs)

Re: Random Politics Thread

Postby md0 » 2018-11-09, 14:54

So, I always found those calls for "bipartisanship" in US politics incomprehensible. Then I watched this video and I still find it incomprehensible but at least I know I am the only one weirded out by it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAbab8aP4_A
"If you like your clause structure, you can keep your clause structure"
Cypriot Greek (el-cy) | ○Standard Modern Greek of Greece (el)Assorted Englishes (en) | ↓France French (fr) | ⊖Police Procedural J-Drama Japanese (ja)Standard Turkish (tr) | ↑German Standard German (de)

User avatar
Yasna
Posts: 2058
Joined: 2011-09-12, 1:17
Gender: male
Location: Boston
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Random Politics Thread

Postby Yasna » 2018-11-09, 20:11

IpseDixit wrote:What I was trying to say is that an opinion is biased by definition. Otherwise it would be a fact.

And just to be clear, the definition of bias I'm using is something like this one:

- a tendency to prefer one person or thing to another, and to favour that person or thing.

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dicti ... glish/bias

An opinion is not a fact, because an opinion involves judgement. Bias can, but doesn't need to factor into that judgement. Unless you are using "bias" in an undifferentiated sense like "all past experiences and accumulated knowledge that inform a person's judgement". But that is stretching "bias" beyond its normal meaning which presumes a systematic undesired effect, whether in colloquial speech or statistics.
Ein Buch muß die Axt sein für das gefrorene Meer in uns. - Kafka

User avatar
md0
Posts: 7400
Joined: 2010-08-08, 19:56
Country: CY Cyprus (Κύπρος / Kıbrıs)

Re: Random Politics Thread

Postby md0 » 2018-11-12, 12:09

A little bit of the wall fell today - first time in almost 10 years. Unfortunately this is not quite the German Unification, but for a long time it felt like this checkpoint wasn't going to open at all.
Image
https://cyprus-mail.com/2018/11/12/new- ... on-monday/
"If you like your clause structure, you can keep your clause structure"
Cypriot Greek (el-cy) | ○Standard Modern Greek of Greece (el)Assorted Englishes (en) | ↓France French (fr) | ⊖Police Procedural J-Drama Japanese (ja)Standard Turkish (tr) | ↑German Standard German (de)

vijayjohn
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 22920
Joined: 2013-01-10, 8:49
Real Name: Vijay John
Gender: male
Location: Austin
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Random Politics Thread

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-11-14, 3:31

Yay? (I know you've talked a lot about this before, but I still feel I know too little about what's going on to know for sure how to react).

User avatar
md0
Posts: 7400
Joined: 2010-08-08, 19:56
Country: CY Cyprus (Κύπρος / Kıbrıs)

Re: Random Politics Thread

Postby md0 » 2018-11-14, 7:06

New crossing points can't be a bad thing (considering that from 1974 until 2003 the border was impenetrable), but it's definitely nowhere near achieving reunification.

The thing is, I've lost my optimism. I have been very active in reunification activism for almost ten years, and time after time I see that it's "my community" that wants to defer reunification indefinitely. We have EU passports to sell to Russian and Chinese oligarchs after all, reunification would bring some checks and balances to that scheme :roll:
"If you like your clause structure, you can keep your clause structure"
Cypriot Greek (el-cy) | ○Standard Modern Greek of Greece (el)Assorted Englishes (en) | ↓France French (fr) | ⊖Police Procedural J-Drama Japanese (ja)Standard Turkish (tr) | ↑German Standard German (de)

User avatar
md0
Posts: 7400
Joined: 2010-08-08, 19:56
Country: CY Cyprus (Κύπρος / Kıbrıs)

Re: Random Politics Thread

Postby md0 » 2018-11-24, 13:31

More on the majestic equality of the Law:

Greek regional Appeals Court upholds the sentencing of a 53 year old cleaning lady to 10 years in prison and annulment of all her social security contributions (20 years worth of). Her heinous crime? She forged her primary school certificate to make it say she completed all 6 years of primary school (when in fact she only finished 5), so that she could get a job as a cleaning lady at her local kindergarten. Since November 6, this dangerous criminal is behind bars.

https://www.taxydromos.gr/Topika/316523 ... dromo.html

Some extra backstory for anyone unable to feel any degree of sympathy for her just by the sheer dis-proportionality of the punishment: she comes from a family of 8 more siblings, she lost both her parents at a very young age and grew up at an orphanage. She left school and started working when she was 11 years old. She was married at 16 (typical age of Greece at that time), and had two children. Her husband worked in construction as a builder for decades, but he was left to live with serious disabilities, so for the longest time she was the sole breadwinner for the family. Before she could get that cushy job of cleaning after toddlers, she and her husband and two children lived in a leaky hut and feared that Child Welfare Services would take her two kids away if she didn't do what was necessary to get a better-paying job.

PS: Around the same time, a courthouse clerk in a different part of Greece was found not guilty of a similar crime. She forged a Law School Bachelors degree that she didn't need for her job (but which afforded her a higher pay-grade).
Her successful defence? "I didn't do it for the money, I did it because I felt inferior being the only one working there who didn't have a university education".
All her colleagues from the court house (judges, lawyers, other courthouse staff) came to her defence and spoke of a very dedicated woman, an excellent co-worker, and testified that indeed she didn't need the extra money she was already quite well off.
https://www.usay.gr/article/253852/athw ... peidi.html

So I guess, keep that in mind when you see news about riots in Athens?
"If you like your clause structure, you can keep your clause structure"
Cypriot Greek (el-cy) | ○Standard Modern Greek of Greece (el)Assorted Englishes (en) | ↓France French (fr) | ⊖Police Procedural J-Drama Japanese (ja)Standard Turkish (tr) | ↑German Standard German (de)

User avatar
Aurinĭa
Forum Administrator
Posts: 3679
Joined: 2008-05-14, 21:18
Gender: female
Country: BE Belgium (België / Belgique)

Re: Random Politics Thread

Postby Aurinĭa » 2018-11-24, 19:08

Oh, so committing fraud is okay as long as you don't do it for the money?

I haven't seen or heard anything in the news about riots in Athens recently.

User avatar
md0
Posts: 7400
Joined: 2010-08-08, 19:56
Country: CY Cyprus (Κύπρος / Kıbrıs)

Re: Random Politics Thread

Postby md0 » 2018-11-24, 19:41

Aurinĭa wrote:Oh, so committing fraud is okay as long as you don't do it for the money?

It would seem so on the surface, but I think it's obvious that the judiciary is looking after their own, like cops do whenever one of their collogues murders a 14 year old because the boy swore at him (murder of Alexis Gregoropoulos in Athens, ten years ago on December).

This is why all branches of government are so utterly de-legitimised in the eyes of ordinary Greeks, and why rioting in large Greek cities used to be so common. The executive has a license to kill without consequences, the judiciary applies the law only against the poor, and the legislative is raising taxes and reducing all public expenditure except for military spending.

Aurinĭa wrote:I haven't seen or heard anything in the news about riots in Athens recently.

That's true actually. Since 2012, there's a pervasive feeling of defeat among those civic coalitions that used to be out in the streets engaging in various degrees of militant protest. The election of SYRIZA into government has probably the final nail on the coffin: "if the "Change" Party couldn't change anything in the end, what's the point?"
"If you like your clause structure, you can keep your clause structure"
Cypriot Greek (el-cy) | ○Standard Modern Greek of Greece (el)Assorted Englishes (en) | ↓France French (fr) | ⊖Police Procedural J-Drama Japanese (ja)Standard Turkish (tr) | ↑German Standard German (de)

User avatar
md0
Posts: 7400
Joined: 2010-08-08, 19:56
Country: CY Cyprus (Κύπρος / Kıbrıs)

Re: Random Politics Thread

Postby md0 » 2018-11-25, 14:27

http://www.philenews.com/eidiseis/polit ... -deryneias

Republic of Cyprus Police is set to tolerate rotating closure of all crossing points between south and north, organised by assorted Greek-Cypriot far-right organisations.

A blatant violation of the EU Acquis and the Green Line Regulation. All European citizens have the right to freely move around the union, and that includes the northern part of Cyprus. RoC should disperse those nationalists who block the crossing points, not tolerate them.

Will the European Commission do anything about this?
"If you like your clause structure, you can keep your clause structure"
Cypriot Greek (el-cy) | ○Standard Modern Greek of Greece (el)Assorted Englishes (en) | ↓France French (fr) | ⊖Police Procedural J-Drama Japanese (ja)Standard Turkish (tr) | ↑German Standard German (de)


Return to “Politics and Religion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest