日本語の雑談 (Japanese Language Discussion)

User avatar
Ciarán12
Posts: 3315
Joined: 2011-12-31, 15:23
Real Name: Ciarán
Gender: male
Location: Baile Átha Cliath (Dublin)
Country: IE Ireland (Éire / Ireland)

Re: 日本語の雑談 (Japanese Language Discussion)

Postby Ciarán12 » 2013-03-22, 1:03

Kaylee wrote:Thanks again, Ciarán12. :yep:

Just to be sure I am understanding this right before I run off to my small conlang; it is possible for one verb to act as a verb and an adjective to two different nouns?

This book isn't so great at describing what it means. :lol:


Well, I suppose in the example sentence I gave above the verb "yondeiru" - "reading" is acting as a normal verb to the noun "zasshi" - "magazine" and as an "adjective" to the noun "hito" - "person", but I'm not sure this is a good explanation of what is going on here. Japanese verbs aren't adjectives, it's just that entire clauses in Japanese can be "prefixed" to a noun just as an adjective would be, which is how Japanese gets around not having relative clauses. In Japanese the verb always comes at the end of the clause (and, indeed, in some cases the verb is the entire clause), so the verb is just the part of the prefixed relative clause that goes directly before the noun. This might make it seem like they can be adjectives, but that's not really the case. I think your book referring to verbs as "adjectives" is simplifying it for beginners. In the example sentence, the verb is acting as a normal verb to the word "zasshi", and because it comes at the end of a clause which is being used as a relative clause, it is in the same position in relation to the noun "hito" as an adjective modifying it would be. Sorry if I've made it more confusing for you, my explanation kind of got away from me here :silly:

User avatar
Kaylee
Posts: 871
Joined: 2011-04-16, 1:46
Real Name: Some casual name
Gender: female

Re: 日本語の雑談 (Japanese Language Discussion)

Postby Kaylee » 2013-03-22, 1:30

Thanks for the explanation!

I think I understand it all now, Ciarán12. Thanks! :yep: The book kept describing it like one verb could do two different things for two different nouns in a sentence as an adjective, and I had never heard of that sort of thing in a language before.

Would it be okay if I came back with other questions if I have them...?
Native American inspired Conlang!
Kaylee - NAILC - Lakȟotiyapi
Learning:lkt (lkt) Next: ru (ru) af (af) bo (bo) ar (ar) cy (cy)/gd (gd)

Thanks to hashi, ronin319, razlem, johntm, Lenguas, jake12,Milya0 and YngNghymru for literally teaching me from nothing, to something big! Thank you guys so much!

User avatar
Ciarán12
Posts: 3315
Joined: 2011-12-31, 15:23
Real Name: Ciarán
Gender: male
Location: Baile Átha Cliath (Dublin)
Country: IE Ireland (Éire / Ireland)

Re: 日本語の雑談 (Japanese Language Discussion)

Postby Ciarán12 » 2013-03-22, 1:49

Kaylee wrote:Thanks for the explanation!

I think I understand it all now, Ciarán12. Thanks! :yep: The book kept describing it like one verb could do two different things for two different nouns in a sentence as an adjective, and I had never heard of that sort of thing in a language before.

Would it be okay if I came back with other questions if I have them...?


Sure! And you're welcome :) , I hope the conlang turns out well for you.

paraparadox
Posts: 4
Joined: 2012-09-17, 12:04
Real Name: dan
Gender: male
Location: Tuban
Country: ID Indonesia (Indonesia)

Re: 日本語の雑談 (Japanese Language Discussion)

Postby paraparadox » 2013-04-12, 11:30

look like i've been using wrong thread for asking before, sorry

so here's another question
「。。。たり」 
「。。。より」

i have no idea how to use the first, and from kim tae guide the second seems use to compare things. but sometime it translated as [from]

thanks

הענט

Re: 日本語の雑談 (Japanese Language Discussion)

Postby הענט » 2013-04-25, 9:06

What's the difference between and ?

User avatar
Yasna
Posts: 2001
Joined: 2011-09-12, 1:17
Gender: male
Location: Boston
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: 日本語の雑談 (Japanese Language Discussion)

Postby Yasna » 2013-04-25, 17:20

El Tigre Chino wrote:What's the difference between and ?

Sora is the standard word for sky. "Ten" is a little more expansive. More along the lines of "the heavens". "Ten" is usually just seen in compounds, e.g. 天国 or 晴天.
Ein Buch muß die Axt sein für das gefrorene Meer in uns. - Kafka

User avatar
Ciarán12
Posts: 3315
Joined: 2011-12-31, 15:23
Real Name: Ciarán
Gender: male
Location: Baile Átha Cliath (Dublin)
Country: IE Ireland (Éire / Ireland)

Re: 日本語の雑談 (Japanese Language Discussion)

Postby Ciarán12 » 2013-04-25, 19:29

paraparadox wrote:look like i've been using wrong thread for asking before, sorry

so here's another question
「。。。たり」 
「。。。より」

i have no idea how to use the first, and from kim tae guide the second seems use to compare things. but sometime it translated as [from]

thanks


「。。。たり」is used to make an inexhaustive list of verbs you do/are doing. It's like や is for nouns.
「毎日運動をしたり、テレビを見たり、友達と話したりします。」"Everyday I do exercise, watch TV and talk to my friends etc...". Keep in mind, you have to use the verb "する" after the last 「。。。たり」.

「。。。より」means "more (so) than...". 「日本語にとって、あなたは僕より上手ですよ。」"You are better than me at Japanese." When have you seen it translated as "from"?

הענט

Re: 日本語の雑談 (Japanese Language Discussion)

Postby הענט » 2013-04-25, 21:32

Yasna wrote:
El Tigre Chino wrote:What's the difference between and ?

Sora is the standard word for sky. "Ten" is a little more expansive. More along the lines of "the heavens". "Ten" is usually just seen in compounds, e.g. 天国 or 晴天.


Thanks a lot. :)

pauro36
Posts: 5
Joined: 2013-06-28, 11:37
Real Name: Paulo Pineda
Gender: male
Country: PH Philippines (Pilipinas)

Re: 日本語の雑談 (Japanese Language Discussion)

Postby pauro36 » 2013-07-04, 11:37

I've only studied a 2 months basic course, and then I've bought games in my iOS and basically just talking with fluent people, and asking them for help. xD too lazy for a formal study for now...

User avatar
johnklepac
Posts: 2809
Joined: 2012-12-06, 2:18
Real Name: Your Onions
Gender: male
Location: Chicago/Southwest Ohio
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: 日本語の雑談 (Japanese Language Discussion)

Postby johnklepac » 2013-09-23, 2:58

pauro36 wrote:I've only studied a 2 months basic course, and then I've bought games in my iOS and basically just talking with fluent people, and asking them for help. xD too lazy for a formal study for now...
I'm even less motivated. I really need to pick up my Japanese copy of Pokémon White 2 again...

User avatar
enricmm
Posts: 288
Joined: 2013-06-17, 14:51
Real Name: Enric Masclans Marin
Gender: male
Country: ES Spain (España)

Re: 日本語の雑談 (Japanese Language Discussion)

Postby enricmm » 2013-10-04, 20:15

私が漫画の日本語を勉強している。この日本語は現実的な言語です。
Native: (ca) Native against my will: (es)
Advanced: (de) (us)
Intermediate: (zh)
Beginner: (ga) (ja)
Desiderata: (ar) (br) (cy) (egy) (el) (eo) (eu) (fo) (fr) (gl) (got) (grc) (he) (hi) (id) (iu) (is) (it) (km) (ko) (la) (lt) (lv) (nah) (no) (non) (oc) (pt) (ru) (sgn) (sq) (sv) (sw) (tr) (zhc)

User avatar
Ciarán12
Posts: 3315
Joined: 2011-12-31, 15:23
Real Name: Ciarán
Gender: male
Location: Baile Átha Cliath (Dublin)
Country: IE Ireland (Éire / Ireland)

Re: 日本語の雑談 (Japanese Language Discussion)

Postby Ciarán12 » 2013-10-04, 21:27

enricmm wrote:私が漫画の日本語を勉強している。この日本語は現実的な言語です。


あの、必ずしもそうじゃないよ。大体に漫画によって違うと思う。漫画の一部には伝統低な口ぶりが使われて、別の漫画には劇画調な若者言葉があるね。どんな漫画を読んでいるの?

User avatar
enricmm
Posts: 288
Joined: 2013-06-17, 14:51
Real Name: Enric Masclans Marin
Gender: male
Country: ES Spain (España)

Re: 日本語の雑談 (Japanese Language Discussion)

Postby enricmm » 2013-10-06, 15:59

私はNorma EditorialのEl Japonès en vinyetesを使用している。あの本の例はとても有用だ!しかし、私は日本語で漫画を読まない。私はまだ初心者だ。
Native: (ca) Native against my will: (es)
Advanced: (de) (us)
Intermediate: (zh)
Beginner: (ga) (ja)
Desiderata: (ar) (br) (cy) (egy) (el) (eo) (eu) (fo) (fr) (gl) (got) (grc) (he) (hi) (id) (iu) (is) (it) (km) (ko) (la) (lt) (lv) (nah) (no) (non) (oc) (pt) (ru) (sgn) (sq) (sv) (sw) (tr) (zhc)

User avatar
Ciarán12
Posts: 3315
Joined: 2011-12-31, 15:23
Real Name: Ciarán
Gender: male
Location: Baile Átha Cliath (Dublin)
Country: IE Ireland (Éire / Ireland)

Re: 日本語の雑談 (Japanese Language Discussion)

Postby Ciarán12 » 2013-10-06, 16:15

enricmm wrote:私はNorma EditorialのEl Japonès en vinyetesを使用している。あの本の例はとても有用だ!しかし、私は日本語で漫画を読まない。私はまだ初心者だ。


あ、分かった。うん、その「El Japonès en vinyetes」という本を見たんだよね。面白そうな習い方だ。アイルランドで同じような教科書を見て、「Japanese thhe Manga Way」と呼ばれたと思う。

User avatar
enricmm
Posts: 288
Joined: 2013-06-17, 14:51
Real Name: Enric Masclans Marin
Gender: male
Country: ES Spain (España)

Re: 日本語の雑談 (Japanese Language Discussion)

Postby enricmm » 2013-10-06, 23:33

漫画に基づい学習方法はとても面白いです。でも、私がもその他の方法を必要とする。
Native: (ca) Native against my will: (es)
Advanced: (de) (us)
Intermediate: (zh)
Beginner: (ga) (ja)
Desiderata: (ar) (br) (cy) (egy) (el) (eo) (eu) (fo) (fr) (gl) (got) (grc) (he) (hi) (id) (iu) (is) (it) (km) (ko) (la) (lt) (lv) (nah) (no) (non) (oc) (pt) (ru) (sgn) (sq) (sv) (sw) (tr) (zhc)

User avatar
Ciarán12
Posts: 3315
Joined: 2011-12-31, 15:23
Real Name: Ciarán
Gender: male
Location: Baile Átha Cliath (Dublin)
Country: IE Ireland (Éire / Ireland)

Re: 日本語の雑談 (Japanese Language Discussion)

Postby Ciarán12 » 2013-10-07, 21:52

enricmm wrote:漫画に基づい学習方法はとても面白いです。でも、私がその他の方法必要とする。


それが日本語の勉強の長所だと思うよね:学ぶ方法がいっぱいあって、面白くて革新的な教材がよくあるね。

User avatar
hashi
Posts: 9189
Joined: 2008-11-02, 2:39
Gender: male
Country: NZ New Zealand (New Zealand / Aotearoa)
Contact:

Re: 日本語の雑談 (Japanese Language Discussion)

Postby hashi » 2013-10-28, 10:14

皆さん、久しぶりですね。

最近このフォーラムで書かなかったってごめんなさい。今年は今までとっても大変だし、あんまり暇時間がありませんでした。その結果として日本語を喋ることできる場合が絶対なかくて、日本語を忘れ始まってしまいました。また上達するのに、Unilangでもっと練習したいと思います。:D

やっぱり漢字の書き方を思い出すの方が難しいですね。

はし

Edit: またモデレーター責任を取ります。

Koko
Posts: 5358
Joined: 2013-11-29, 6:50
Real Name: Jon Stockman
Gender: male
Country: CA Canada (Canada)

Re: 日本語の雑談 (Japanese Language Discussion)

Postby Koko » 2014-04-18, 19:12

Is there a reason you don't separate words from each other?

ねこある。Rather than ねこ あ?

User avatar
Ciarán12
Posts: 3315
Joined: 2011-12-31, 15:23
Real Name: Ciarán
Gender: male
Location: Baile Átha Cliath (Dublin)
Country: IE Ireland (Éire / Ireland)

Re: 日本語の雑談 (Japanese Language Discussion)

Postby Ciarán12 » 2014-04-19, 17:47

Koko wrote:Is there a reason you don't separate words from each other?

ねこある。Rather than ねこ あ?


Are you talking to anyone specifically or asking about why this is the case in general? In Japanese words are not separated orthographically by a space. In part, words are identifiable by the use of the different scripts. When writing in Rōmaji the convention is to use spaces, but I have found some interesting habits when talking to a colleague of mine over Skype - she is of Japanese parentage but grew up in Germany and knows Japanese mainly as an spoken language, so she is not as familiar with the writing convenstions (patticularly Rōmaji conventions) as I am and divides word boundaries up oddly. This to me shows quite clearly how abitrary it can be,and in the end the Japanese themselves have no trouble parsing a sentence properly without spaces.

Koko
Posts: 5358
Joined: 2013-11-29, 6:50
Real Name: Jon Stockman
Gender: male
Country: CA Canada (Canada)

Re: 日本語の雑談 (Japanese Language Discussion)

Postby Koko » 2014-04-19, 18:19

No one in particular… and thanks ^_^ It's always confused me as to why there are rarely spaces.


Return to “Japanese (日本語)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests