日本語の雑談 (Japanese Language Discussion)

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hashi
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Re: 日本語の雑談 (Japanese Language Discussion)

Postby hashi » 2011-12-11, 23:16

Yes they're both legitimate words :)

There's also a third form, the ~zuni form. I have a page in a textbook of mine that highlights the key differences between the three forms, if I find it I'll scan it in :)

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Re: 日本語の雑談 (Japanese Language Discussion)

Postby hashi » 2011-12-11, 23:27

Found it!

zuni, nakute, naide.jpg
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Re: 日本語の雑談 (Japanese Language Discussion)

Postby Ser » 2011-12-11, 23:49

by the way, on the Korean forum there is Korean speakers, on the Chinese forum there are Chinese people, the Vietnamese forum also has Vietnamese people... but Japanese people don't visit this forum.
The lack of articles is... erm...

I guess it just happens we haven't got an enthusiastic speaker. Some Japanese guy called "Udendride" used to come now and then, but otherwise it's been mostly non-natives, yes. Note various of the forums often depend on very few users, so it's more likely a matter of luck: Karavinka (Korean, and for many years), Draven/abcdefg (Vietnamese), jaybee (Arabic, although she hardly comes by these days, so it's abandoned), loqu (Spanish, sometimes me and Núria), Maralol/Nejimakidori (French, in the past it was mostly Emandir), senacherib/Pangu (Chinese, in the past it was linguanima, and lishaoxuan before him), etc.

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Re: 日本語の雑談 (Japanese Language Discussion)

Postby Aleco » 2011-12-12, 14:49

Oh, wow, thank you :) This was indeed complicated, but I think I get it :yep: Thanks!
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Re: 日本語の雑談 (Japanese Language Discussion)

Postby IMABI » 2011-12-25, 3:09

ず gives a neoclassical feel to a sentence, but it may also be the ending of choice in some areas of Japan, howbeit at times with an evolved look. For example, most dialects and even in Standard Japanese where it is retained, it is in the form ぬ. This has further evolved into ん and as ない in Eastern Japan. The latter ending has also become ん due to outside influence from other dialects, so it is a misake to confuse origin as conjugation practices differ depending on the evolution track taken.

ないで can be most easily seen as without doing whereas なくて shows cause and effect, and is required in listing as well as showing syntactical soundness ans parallelism.

I hope this insight helps everyone. :)

Śrāmaṇera

Re: 日本語の雑談 (Japanese Language Discussion)

Postby Śrāmaṇera » 2012-02-02, 19:55

I propose we all ignore your offer. It's a shame to ask or pay money to "learn" a language. You can't learn a language anyway, you get used to it through exposure and no teacher can provide you that.

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Re: 日本語の雑談 (Japanese Language Discussion)

Postby IMABI » 2012-02-21, 12:57

何? 

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Re: 日本語の雑談 (Japanese Language Discussion)

Postby hashi » 2012-02-22, 2:44

IMABI wrote:何? 


ネジマさんがスパムに返事してたけど、私がまたポストを消してしまいました。それで、ネジマさんが一人でゆっているみたいです。  :wink:

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Re: 日本語の雑談 (Japanese Language Discussion)

Postby IMABI » 2012-02-22, 3:15

お、そうか。スパムなんてホンマで罪のほどだな。

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Re: 日本語の雑談 (Japanese Language Discussion)

Postby Remis » 2012-02-28, 14:28

I guess this is the right place for simple questions? (There's no sense in opening my own thread, because I'm not that committed [yet], and I mostly have simple questions, so...)
Anyway.
敬語/polite language in general, are you supposed to use it on the internet? I've heard that with Romance languages, the tu-form/2SG is alright on the internet (as opposed to Lei/Usted/vous/etc.), but what about Japanese? I'm assuming you wouldn't use あなた, but yeah.
(Note: I'm talking about communicating with people that you don't know well at all, and who may or may not be older than you. I.e. the internet in general.)

I mean, I guess when quoting posts on a forum (or similar), you would omit the pronoun entirely, or? I guess 名前さん would be logical, but what do I know. :P
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TAC 2012 [flag]ja[/flag] [flag]la[/flag] ([flag]es-mx[/flag] [flag]non[/flag])
Of immense interest: [flag]grc[/flag] [flag]akk[/flag] [flag]egy[/flag] [flag]ar[/flag] [flag]mt[/flag] [flag]ga[/flag] [flag]eu[/flag] [flag]pl[/flag] [flag]prg[/flag] [flag]nah[/flag] [flag]qu[/flag] [flag]nv[/flag] [flag]zh.Hant[/flag]
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Re: 日本語の雑談 (Japanese Language Discussion)

Postby md0 » 2012-02-28, 14:32

Japanese is one of the languages that have a strong written form. So, even when you are sending a latter to a close friend, you will use fancy/polite words.
From what I saw online, apart from scary places like BBSes, the standard です・ます style of speech is used. Even on Twitter, where you'd guess they would favor shorter forms.
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Re: 日本語の雑談 (Japanese Language Discussion)

Postby Remis » 2012-02-28, 14:49

So basically 丁寧語 then? Right, cool. ありがとうございます。 :P
meidei wrote:Even on Twitter, where you'd guess they would favor shorter forms.
Wow, okay, I didn't expect that. But then again, I guess one Japanese tweet could equal at least two English ones, considering one 漢字 can be one word.
Remis Kalvan | art / ˈfɛɪsˌbʊk | L1: [flag]no-nb[/flag] L2: [flag]en[/flag] reading short stories in: [flag]it[/flag] [flag]es[/flag]

TAC 2012 [flag]ja[/flag] [flag]la[/flag] ([flag]es-mx[/flag] [flag]non[/flag])
Of immense interest: [flag]grc[/flag] [flag]akk[/flag] [flag]egy[/flag] [flag]ar[/flag] [flag]mt[/flag] [flag]ga[/flag] [flag]eu[/flag] [flag]pl[/flag] [flag]prg[/flag] [flag]nah[/flag] [flag]qu[/flag] [flag]nv[/flag] [flag]zh.Hant[/flag]
Wanderlustin' for [flag]ain[/flag] [flag]ka[/flag] [flag]mn[/flag] [flag]cy[/flag] [flag]af[/flag]

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Re: 日本語の雑談 (Japanese Language Discussion)

Postby FruitBat » 2012-03-01, 0:47

meidei wrote:Japanese is one of the languages that have a strong written form. So, even when you are sending a latter to a close friend, you will use fancy/polite words.
From what I saw online, apart from scary places like BBSes, the standard です・ます style of speech is used. Even on Twitter, where you'd guess they would favor shorter forms.


Why are BBSes scary?
[flag=]de[/flag][flag=]en[/flag][flag=]ja[/flag][flag=]pl[/flag][flag=]ru[/flag][flag=]lt[/flag][flag=]el[/flag][flag=]fr[/flag][flag=]es[/flag][flag=]pt-br[/flag]
人の世に道は一つということはない。道は百も千も万もある。(坂本龍馬)

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Re: 日本語の雑談 (Japanese Language Discussion)

Postby hirashin » 2012-03-10, 9:04

IMABI wrote:お、そうか。スパムなんてホンマで罪のほどだな。


That does not make sense.

If you want to use the Kansai dialect, you should say something like
スパムっちゅうのは、ホンマに罪なもんやな。

ひらしん from Kyoto

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Re: 日本語の雑談 (Japanese Language Discussion)

Postby Yasna » 2012-03-10, 16:10

hirashin wrote:
IMABI wrote:お、そうか。スパムなんてホンマで罪のほどだな。


That does not make sense.

If you want to use the Kansai dialect, you should say something like
スパムっちゅうのは、ホンマに罪なもんやな。

ひらしん from Kyoto

Oh how badly this forum has needed a native Japanese speaker. Thanks for stopping by.
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Re: 日本語の雑談 (Japanese Language Discussion)

Postby hirashin » 2012-03-10, 16:32

Writing a lot in the language you are learning would help to get used to the language, but it could become an obstacle to make progress in it unless your sentences are corrected.

If you would like, I'll correct your Japanese as much as I can whenever I come to this site.

And in return, please correct my English if needed.

Hirashin from Kyoto, Japan

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Re: 日本語の雑談 (Japanese Language Discussion)

Postby Remis » 2012-03-10, 18:35

Yasna wrote:Oh how badly this forum has needed a native Japanese speaker. Thanks for stopping by.
Seconded! (Even though I haven't written much in the Japanese subforum myself, mainly because I don't know much beyond を元気ですか).
So yeah, welcome to the forum, ひらしん :D
Remis Kalvan | art / ˈfɛɪsˌbʊk | L1: [flag]no-nb[/flag] L2: [flag]en[/flag] reading short stories in: [flag]it[/flag] [flag]es[/flag]

TAC 2012 [flag]ja[/flag] [flag]la[/flag] ([flag]es-mx[/flag] [flag]non[/flag])
Of immense interest: [flag]grc[/flag] [flag]akk[/flag] [flag]egy[/flag] [flag]ar[/flag] [flag]mt[/flag] [flag]ga[/flag] [flag]eu[/flag] [flag]pl[/flag] [flag]prg[/flag] [flag]nah[/flag] [flag]qu[/flag] [flag]nv[/flag] [flag]zh.Hant[/flag]
Wanderlustin' for [flag]ain[/flag] [flag]ka[/flag] [flag]mn[/flag] [flag]cy[/flag] [flag]af[/flag]

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Re: 日本語の雑談 (Japanese Language Discussion)

Postby IMABI » 2012-03-10, 20:22

hirashin wrote:
IMABI wrote:お、そうか。スパムなんてホンマで罪のほどだな。


That does not make sense.

If you want to use the Kansai dialect, you should say something like
スパムっちゅうのは、ホンマに罪なもんやな。

ひらしん from Kyoto


Hirashinさん、「本間で」は全国で使われている表現だと思います。ところで、関西弁は存在しません。大まかすぎるんじゃないですか?代わりに、京都弁とか大阪弁とかの方がいいです。東京弁で話す者です。しかし、方言について幅広い知識を持っていると思います。Hirashinさんのゆうことはもちろん本物の京都弁ですが、私は京都弁で書きませんでした。誤解だけです。

Unilangへようこそ。私は日本語の勉強のためのウェブサイトを所有しています。ネイティブスピーカーじゃないですが、昔に身につけました。www.imabijapaneselearningcenter.comといいます。「きょう」じゃなくて「いまび」と名づけました。どうぞよろしくお願いします。私の友人玖実は「ほんまで」は普通で、変じゃないと言いました。たぶん、京都府で違う感じがあるかもしれませんね。

最後に、冠詞の必要はなかったです。それで、Kansai Dialectだけ言った方がいいですよ。 :)

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Re: 日本語の雑談 (Japanese Language Discussion)

Postby FruitBat » 2012-03-11, 11:48

IMABI、横からごめんなさいけど、「ホンマで」というのは全国で使われているもんじゃないよ。少なくとも東京でそれらしき表現を使うネーティブスピーカーに会ったことないことが確かだ。「ホンマでっか」はテレビ番組で有名になってきたわけで全国で使われるようになったと言えるけど、それぐらいかな。京都の人だけに変に聞こえるというわけじゃない。ただもちろん、スラングとして特別に使おうとすると別かもな。
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人の世に道は一つということはない。道は百も千も万もある。(坂本龍馬)

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Re: 日本語の雑談 (Japanese Language Discussion)

Postby hirashin » 2012-03-11, 12:58

IMABI wrote:Hirashinさん、「本間で」は全国で使われている表現だと思います。ところで、関西弁は存在しません。大まかすぎるんじゃないですか?代わりに、京都弁とか大阪弁とかの方がいいです。東京弁で話す者です。しかし、方言について幅広い知識を持っていると思います。


関西弁は存在しませんというのは変ですね。そういう言い方をするなら、アメリカ英語は存在しません。イギリス英語も存在しません。そういう理屈のためだけの理屈はよくないです。関西弁は存在します。どの地域の言葉を関西弁に含めるかは難しいですが、京都・大阪・奈良・神戸・滋賀あたりで話されている言葉は関西弁と言っていいでしょう。広島や岡山の言葉は関西弁には普通含めません。

Hirashinさんのゆうことはもちろん本物の京都弁ですが、私は京都弁で書きませんでした。誤解だけです。


何をおっしゃっているのかよくわかりませんが、「誤解だけです」という言い方は間違いです。「だけ」はいりません。



Unilangへようこそ。私は日本語の勉強のためのウェブサイトを所有しています。ネイティブスピーカーじゃないですが、昔に身につけました。www.imabijapaneselearningcenter.comといいます。「きょう」じゃなくて「いまび」と名づけました。どうぞよろしくお願いします。私の友人玖実は「ほんまで」は普通で、変じゃないと言いました。たぶん、京都府で違う感じがあるかもしれませんね。


玖実さんはどこの出身の方ですか?日本人ですよね?

別便の直メールでも書きましたが、関東の人が「ほんま」を使うのはテレビで関西出身のタレントがよく使うからです。でも、親しい友人同士のくだけた会話の中で使うだけですね。公的な場所で使ったら顰蹙(ひんしゅく)だと思います。ふざけているという印象を与えますから。FruitBatさんは日本に住んでおられるのかな?よくご存じですね。(^_^)

最後に、冠詞の必要はなかったです。それで、Kansai Dialectだけ言った方がいいですよ。 :)


Thank you for the correction. 最後の「いいですよ」の「よ」はないほうがいいです。You had better のように、相手に圧力を掛けている感じが少ししますから。微妙ですが。

ひらしん


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