Sonidos del Mundo

Qcumber
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Sonidos del Mundo

Postby Qcumber » 2005-06-04, 22:58

I dont know much about Japanese. I have two questions about the Japanese text in the “Sonidos del Mundo” collection of UNILANG.

In the segment このプロヅェクトは _Kono purojekuto ha,_ “This project”, the speaker reads the kana は /ha/ as [ha] instead of [wa].
Why?
Last edited by Qcumber on 2005-06-08, 17:52, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Sonidos del Mundo

Postby 勺园之鬼 » 2005-06-04, 23:09

Qcumber wrote:In the segment このプロヅェクトは _Kono purojekuto ha,_ “This project”, the speaker reads the kana は /ha/ as [ha] instead of [wa].
Why?


If I am not mistaken, he reads it が and not は (or "わ"). が is the subject particle, it is probably more accurate than は, the topic particle, in this sentence.
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Postby Qcumber » 2005-06-05, 10:13

Really JunMing? I have listened again to the recording.

1) Segment このプロヅェクトは _Kono purojekuto ha,_ “This project”. To me, he did not replace は [wa] (topic marker) by が [ga] (subject marker), but produced an interesting sound that combines [ha] and [wa], something like [hʷa].

2) Segment 方 がいいでしょう ? _hou ga ii deshiyou?_ I was wrong about his reading of でしょう. He does read it [deʃo:] or rather [deʃʲo:].

3) Conversely I noticed the last three hiragana-s of the text, ますよ, are not read [masujo], but [maʃʲo].

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Postby 勺园之鬼 » 2005-06-05, 10:49

Qcumber wrote:Really JunMing? I have listened again to the recording.

1) Segment このプロヅェクトは _Kono purojekuto ha,_ “This project”. To me, he did not replace は [wa] (topic marker) by が [ga] (subject marker), but produced an interesting sound that combines [ha] and [wa], something like [hʷa].


Qcumber wrote:I dont know much about Japanese.


I invite you to listen to it again. Maybe have your speakers got a problem :?: (if speakers are to blame in this case...)
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Postby Qcumber » 2005-06-05, 12:26

JunMing:
I invite you to listen to it again. Maybe have your speakers got a problem Question (if speakers are to blame in this case...)


I listened through the loudspeaker and through the earphones. I don't think my computer is to be blamed. Must be due to my incompetence because I do hear [ga] when this kana occurs, but I don't hear [ga] in the case mentioned.

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Re: Sonidos del Mundo

Postby Rounin » 2005-06-08, 13:06

Probably, the person in the recording is simply pronouncing it wrong.

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Postby Qcumber » 2005-06-08, 13:31

You, yourself, what do you hear, Rounin, _ha_, _wa_ or _ga_?
Last edited by Qcumber on 2005-06-08, 17:48, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby alois » 2005-06-08, 16:00

Well, it's actually an alveolo-palatal, so [dɛ'ɕoː].
Last edited by alois on 2005-06-08, 22:00, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Qcumber » 2005-06-08, 17:51

Hefestos, thanks a lot for your explanation.

Incidentally, you should have quoted my correction.
2) Segment 方 がいいでしょう ? _hou ga ii deshiyou?_ I was wrong about his reading of でしょう. He does read it [deʃo:] or rather [deʃʲo:].


Seeing that, I'll edit my first post, and erase what you quoted. :)

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Postby alois » 2005-06-08, 22:00

In fact, by that [dɛˈɕoː] I mean that it's how he was supposed to pronunce it, in the standard language. By listening to the file, I heard [dɛˈʃoː] in the segment you cited and [dɛˈɕoː] in the last sentence, just before "matane".

As for the ha/wa, I myself heard either an /a/ or a /ha/.

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Postby Luís » 2005-06-08, 22:31

As for me, what I hear is clearly a /ga/... :idea:
Quot linguas calles, tot homines vales

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Postby Qcumber » 2005-06-08, 22:32

A sou desu, Hefestos.
So I am not the only one to find some features of this reading a bit odd.
Thanks a lot.

hiro (not log in)

Re: Sonidos del Mundo

Postby hiro (not log in) » 2005-06-12, 2:09

It says 「このプロジェクトは」, not 「が」.
This 「は」 is pronounced as "wa", because it is a particle.
As you might know a particle 「へ」is pronounced 「え」.

「は」 and 「へ」are particles and they are pronounced in different way from the letters so that you can distinguish them from nouns and others.



In the segment このプロヅェクトは _Kono purojekuto ha,_ “This project”, the speaker reads the kana は /ha/ as [ha] instead of [wa].
Why?[/quote]

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this project

Postby Qcumber » 2005-06-12, 8:58

Thanks a lot, Hiro San.
So it's definitely not 「が」.

Now, do you mean that there is no difference in pronunciation between the は in _Konnichi wa_ and the は in「このプロジェクトは」? Are they absolutely the same [wa]? Isn't there an accidental parasitic sound that accompanies the second は?

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Re: this project

Postby hiro » 2005-06-13, 11:02

There is no difference in the pronounciation between the partcile は and わ.

The particle は is pronounced for わ(wa).

eg.,
このプロジェクトは(wa)
こんにちは (wa)




Now, do you mean that there is no difference in pronunciation between the は in _Konnichi wa_ and the は in「このプロジェクトは」? Are they absolutely the same [wa]? Isn't there an accidental parasitic sound that accompanies the second は?[/quote]

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Postby Rounin » 2005-06-14, 11:59

Actually, after listening to it, I can only say that it sounds absolutely correct to me. The pitch accent struck me as a bit odd at times, and he added an extra "ne" after a "deshou", but there are no mistakes in the pronunciation that I can detect.

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Postby Qcumber » 2005-06-21, 7:24

Hiro:
The particle は is pronounced for わ(wa).


Everybody knows this, Hiro San. My question did not bear on the rule, but on what the speaker actually articulated. Thanks a lot anyway.

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Postby Qcumber » 2005-06-21, 7:29

Rounin:
he added an extra "ne" after a "deshou"


Yes, I think I noticed that, too, a couple of weeks ago. This is a minor addition.
I still think the pronounciation of the second は  is a bit odd. :)


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