Language Course 1

NekonoPaw
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Postby NekonoPaw » 2004-02-22, 23:55

Ok, yes there are other words for "Table" in japanese. The problem is.... that is not the only one. For example, the table where you eat, would be "Shokutaku"... sometimes "Dai" is used too. Anyway, it seems that the japanese use the word "Teeburu" not to specify what kind of table it is. So this way is easier. That's my theory :)

Hello Nov and BobMaster0, Forum he youkoso. Suman.. nihonjin ga nai to omoimasu kedo. Boku wa nihongo ga yoku dekimasu ga, mada perapera dewa arimasen. jitsu wa boku mo mada benkyoushite imasu. anatatachi wa mou jouzu desu ne, nihongo ga.

BobMaster0: anata ga itta koto wo mou sukoshi shizen ni iu to: "Koko ni nihonjin ga inai to omoimasu kedo, yoku wakarimasen". Shikashi, tadashii to omoimasu yo ne.
"Straighten out yourself and get your mind on track, Dust off your butt and get your self-respect back, You´ve known me long enough to know that I don´t play, Take it like you want it but you got to keep the faith"

- Michael Jackson -

BobMaster0
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Postby BobMaster0 » 2004-02-24, 8:07

Nekonopaw:助けてくれてありがとうございます
taskute kurete arigatou gozaimasu
ところで、僕はローマ字があまり好きじゃないから、仮名も漢字も使います。
tokorode, boku wa roomaji ga amari sukijanaikara, kana mo kanji mo tsukaimasu.

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Varislintu
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Postby Varislintu » 2004-02-25, 18:52

Well here I am again, with some more finished exercises, and some questions (wahoo :) !).

EXERCISE 24:

1. Uisuki wa ii ga biiru wa amari yokunai.
2. Yama wa takai ga oka wa takakunai.
3. Watashi no terebi wa ookii ga anata no wa chiisai.
4. Suiei wa tsumaranai ga gaishutsu wa totemo ii.
5. Bijutsu wa totemo omoshiroi ga shashin wa tsumaranai.

EXERCISE 25:

1. Hakubutsukan wa tsumaranakatta.
2. Watashi no ..(what is house? Uchi maybe?).. wa daigaku kara amari tookunakatta.
3. Gakkoo wa tookatta.
4. Kankokugo wa totemo muzukashikatta.
5. Sakana wa oishikatta.

EXERCISE 26:

1. This ..(what is chizu?).. is useless.
2. The teacher is not polite.
3. My mother is a very funny person.
4. Is homework not an important thing?
5. That restaurant over there is a quiet place.

EXERCISE 27:

1. Na adjective. Useful.
2. -I adjective. Delishious.
3. Na adjective. Beautiful.
4. Na adjective. Quiet.
5. Na adjective. Polite.

EXERCISE 28:

1. Hon o yomimashoo!
2. Terebi o mimashoo!
3. Asobimashoo!
4. Watashitachi wa tegami o sensei ni kakimashoo ka?
5. Ashita watashitachi wa eki de aimashoo ka?

Oh, and while I was repeating some old stuff, I noticed that I had a couple of mistakes in exercise 21 that slipped past all our eyes :oops: ! I wrote:

3. Kinoo kare wa tegami o katte yuubinkyooku ni iku.
4. Kare wa kissaten de shimbun o nonde keekii o taberu.

when it should've been:

3. Kinoo kare wa tegami o kaite yuubinkyooku ni iku.
4. Kare wa kissaten de shimbun o yonde keekii o taberu.

Now I'm not sure wether I should go back and edit my earlier answers..? Maybe I'll just leave it like this, and hope others will notice these corrections while they're correcting their own exercises.

Now about the questions I said I have. Well, the first one concerns lesson 10, and the joining of sentences using the -te ending in verbs. Does it make any difference weather the second verb is past or present tense? For example "Watashi wa ha o migaite beddo ni iku" means "I brushed my teeth and went to bed". But "iku" is present tense, right? Then in exercise 20, the first sentence goes like this: "Watashi wa nomiya itte biiru nonda", which means "I went to the bar and drank beer". Here, "nonda" is past tense. So my question is, how does one know weather one should use past or present tense in the second verb :?: ?

My second question is shorter (don't look so relieved!). In lesson 16, there is this sentence "Kaimono shite itadakimasen ka?" (Would you be kind enough to do the shopping?). Why is there no "o" after kaimono? Is this an exception, or was it perhaps left out by mistake? I know it's just a detail, but it started nagging at me...

Ok, I'll end this ridiculously long post now. Thanks in advance :D !

Nov
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Proposition: Reading!

Postby Nov » 2004-02-27, 16:16

>>uchi - house
what about ie? (same kanji, other pronunciation)

LET’S READ! I have a lot of Japanese fairy tales, but it is so difficult to read it alone. So… let’s read a Japanese text together! You’re already sooo good in Japanese, I think it would be great to read with you ;) We can have a new Reading Place so that the lessons in Nihongo no tokoro can go on. What kind of text? Every kind we like: mukashibanashi, lyrics, if an easy one is available even newspaper or magazine articles, or texts of learner’s books. I think a good mix of this all would be best, ne?

We are not so many “Japanese”, so we could do it like this:

Provider: the person who has the Japanese text writes short passages of it into the forum.

Translation: after each passage one of the others tries to translate. Maybe it would be good if we would have a certain order (the provider can say who is next) to avoid chaos…

Discussion: after each passage we can discuss the translation, vocabulary, grammar topics and so on. After a certain time the next passage of the story is written (by provider).

Comprehension & Writing: After the story is read or after a part of it is read (depending on the text), the provider can think of questions or short writing tasks about the story to repeat a little bit. (like “What do you think about the story so far?” “Who is your favorite character and why?” “How did Ojiisan find Kaguyahime?” ;) )
While grammar discussions are often hold in English (I suppose so), those tasks are done in Japanese so that we can practice (and repeat the vocabulary of the story).

Since we have no native speaker, everybody has to pay attention on mistakes…
Der Wald steht still und schweiget / Und aus den Wiesen steiget / Der weiße Nebel / Wunderbar.
(Matthias Claudius)

hiro
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correction

Postby hiro » 2004-02-28, 13:34

[quote="Daniel"]JAPANESE LESSON FIFTEEN

Tomodachi o mitai desu. Ikimashō!
I want to see a friend. Let's go!

*Tomodachi ni aitai desu. Ikimasho.

hiro
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Postby hiro » 2004-02-28, 13:45

Daniel wrote:JAPANESE LESSON TWENTY

Sensei mo gakusei mo Tōkyō de daigaku e itta.
Both the teacher and the student went to the university in Tokyo.

* Sensei mo gakusei mo Tokyo no daigaku e itta.

Sensei to gakusei wa Tōkyō de daigaku e itta.

* Sensei to gakusei wa Tokyo no daigaku e itta.

The teacher and the student went to the university in Tokyo.

hiro
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Postby hiro » 2004-02-28, 14:03

[quote="Daniel"]JAPANESE LESSON SIXTEEN

If you want to be extremely polite, then use this -te itadakimasen ka? This roughly translates as Would you be kind enough to...? / Can't I get you to...? / Would I be rude to ask you to...?:

* -te itadakemasen ka?

Kaimono shite itadakimasen ka?
Would you be kind enough to do the shopping?

*Kaimono wo shite itadakemasen ka?

hiro
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Postby hiro » 2004-02-28, 14:22

[quote="Daniel"]JAPANESE LESSON TWENTY-FOUR

Pātī e iki ni iku.
I’m going to go to a party.

* Pati e ikanai.

Haha ni tegami o kaki ni ikimasen.
They are not going to write a letter to Mother.

I am not sure, but this sentence means "They are not going to somewhere to write a letter to Mother."?
If so, the Japanese is correct.
However, if the meaning is the plan, the Japanese would be :
" Haha ni tegami o kakimasen" or "Haha ni tegami wo kaku tsumori wa arimasen."
And the Japanese below would be similar.

hiro
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Postby hiro » 2004-02-28, 14:25

[quote="Nov"]こんにちは。 日本語を勉強してる人がいますか?日本語で話しませんか?
ところで、日本人がここにいますか?
(私の間違いを直してくれてくださいね。^^)

* (私の間違いを直してくださいね。)

konnichi wa. nihongo wo benkyou shiteru hito ga imasu ka? nihongo de hanashimasen ka? tokorode, nihonjinga koko ni imasuka? watashi no machigai wo naoshite kurete kudasai ne.

* naoshite kudasai ne.

I am Japanese.

hiro
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Postby hiro » 2004-02-28, 14:31

tenisu suru - to play tennis

* tenisu o suru

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Proclone
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Postby Proclone » 2004-02-29, 2:54

Not to say you're incorrect hiro (I understand you're a native Japanese speaker) but I've also heard of 'suru verbs'.

In the case of tenisu it is my understanding that 'tenisu suru' is a verb by itself rather than an object and a verb (which would need the 'o' to distinguish the object.)

so from what I understand 'tenisu suru' is as good a sentence as any.

The explanation I've read about suru verbs is that they are generally verbs involving a borrowed word (like tenisu in this case). I'm not an expert on the concept but I have read that from text books before, so beyond this explanation I can't help argue the point any further. :)

Besides that, hi everyone, I think I'll take part in this too, though I think I may try answering in Kanji and kana when I think I can since I'm trying to learn that aswell at the moment.

Guest

Postby Guest » 2004-02-29, 14:53

Of course, there are "suru" verbs.
However, they usually say "teinsu o suru".

"Tenisu suru" is a very casual form, say, "kyou tenisu suru?(will you play tennis today?)" like that.
It is not a verb, just "o" is omitted in colloquial.
This way sounds a little bit rude and is usued only for very close people. It is not grammatical correct.
Even though it makes sense, you should treat the word carefuly. The honorific style of speech is a litte complicated.

There are a lot of "suru" verbs, but you can not make it freely.
Young generation make "suru" verbs and use them, but not all of them are addmitted as proper Japanese.
It takes some years or more to be addmitted and establish.

hiro
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Postby hiro » 2004-02-29, 14:58

Sorry, I forgot login. Guest is me, hiro. :oops:

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Postby Proclone » 2004-02-29, 15:06

That's sort of what I guessed (I knew not all borrowed words could be proper suru verbs, wasn't entirely sure about tenisu though ;) )

This sort fo reminds me of how people in my class during school use to make up french words from english roots and conjugate them in sentences. SOmetimes people might have known the real word but went along with it regardless of the made-up nature. A lot of people in my classes at school didn't really want to be in french immersion so sneaking english in was popular.

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Varislintu
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Postby Varislintu » 2004-03-02, 9:24

Daniel wrote:Hope that's answered your question!


It did, thank you very much Daniel for taking the time to explain that to me :D !

So, I've read the new posts, including -obviously- the ones about the suru-verbs. So what conclusion have you come to? Can one say "kaimono suru" or does it have to be "kaimono o suru"? I didn't quite understand...

By the way, I noticed to my horror that there are hardly any exercises in the lessons above 20 :( ! I feel selfish asking for this, as I know that you, Daniel, have made these lessons on your spare-time and free of charge, but might you consider making just a couple of exercises to accompany some of the lessons you've posted? :doggy:

Or maybe someone else with nothing else on their hands might want to have a go at making some? I'd grately appreciate it! I's easy to think you've mastered a lesson, but an exercise truly reveales if you have or not.

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Postby Proclone » 2004-03-02, 16:15

As far as I know kaimono suru wouldn't work. since kaimono is a noun and not a borrowed word at all. Dictionary says kaimono o suru as well :P

one suru verb I know for sure is 'ai suru' ai = love and, though I'm not 100% on this part, seems to be a chinese borrowed word. Though that might not be why it's a suru verb.

As far as I know there's no real rule for suru verbs, its just something you need to remember about some nouns.

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Postby BobMaster0 » 2004-03-02, 17:08

Actually, the correct way to say "to go shopping" would be kaimono ni iku(買い物に行く).

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Postby Proclone » 2004-03-02, 17:10

isn't kaimono o suru 'to shop' or 'to buy'?

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Postby BobMaster0 » 2004-03-05, 15:10

Yes, kaimono o suru is "to shop". Sorry, I had forgotten about that.

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Postby geoff » 2004-03-05, 18:53

I am writing something on Renyoukei in the Wiki, and I have a question. Here are two sentences:

朝ご飯に私はパンを食べ, お茶を飲む.
朝ご飯に私はパンを食べて, お茶を飲む.

The first uses the Renyoukei form "食べ", the second uses the て-form, 食べて. A book of mine says that when using the Renyoukei form for listing things, it means there is no particular preference between the two, so you are eating and drinking tea. But when you use the て-form it means that you first eat, and then watch TV, you can't just switch the two around without changing the meaning. The reason I ask is that someone told me that you would normally use the second form, as it is more natural. Can anybody tell me more about this?

geoff

MP: Sinun täytyy nousta ylös. Aurinko paistaa.
PM: Höh, mitä ihmeellista siinä on?
MP: Talvi on ohi, kevät on tullut ja elämä on ihana.
PM: Nukkuminenkin on ihanaa.


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