Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

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algorrém
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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby algorrém » 2009-06-22, 13:03

modus.irrealis wrote:But now I'm interested in knowing with a more basic construction, say something like "Maria loves Mark", what the possible orders are. I'd expect Spanish to win here because it can distinguish the direct object with "a" so I would assume you can say "a Marco ama Maria" but would the same OVS order be possible in other languages, say Italian "Marco ama Maria" or would this always have to mean "Mark loves Maria"? Is it possible if there is no ambiguity, e.g. can you say in Italian "i suoi fratelli ama Maria"? And does Spanish allow it if there is no personal a, e.g. is the order of "Laughter cures sadness" less flexible? In Latin, of course, all 6 permutations of SOV are possible.


In Portuguese, like Spanish, we can also mark the direct object with "a", if we want to, and we can do it regardless of whether the object is animate or inanimate. And like Italian, commas can be used to indicate non-standard word order, and I think this is allowed in all romance languages (and also in English, isn't it?).

I'm still curious about the supposed freer word order in Italian, relative to the other romance languages and English. All of obler's examples have a direct equivalent in Portuguese and Spanish, and I'm pretty sure French also has direct equivalents.
O rei mandou me chamá / Pra casar com sua filha / Só de dote ele me dará / Oropa, França, Bahia / Me alembrei do meu ranchinho / Da roça, do meu feijão / Ai!, seu rei, não quero, não!

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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby modus.irrealis » 2009-06-22, 23:59

algorrém wrote:In Portuguese, like Spanish, we can also mark the direct object with "a", if we want to, and we can do it regardless of whether the object is animate or inanimate. And like Italian, commas can be used to indicate non-standard word order, and I think this is allowed in all romance languages (and also in English, isn't it?).

What sort of thing are you thinking of in English?

I skimmed over the discussion and it got me thinking again about how to determine word order flexibility, and I'm not sure all these constructions should count. For example in Greek, you have two different OVS orders:

τη Μαρία αγαπάει ο Μάρκος = Maria.acc loves Mark.nom
τη Μαρία τη αγαπάει ο Μάρκος = Maria.acc her loves Mark.nom

with different "emphases", so they're appropriate in different contexts. But only in the second version can you pause (= insert a comma, I guess) after "Maria" and it feels to me like "Maria" in the second version is outside the "core" of the sentence (and the sentence is complete without it), so I don't think it should really count. Only the first seems to actually be an example of OVS order.

Now I guess Spanish (and Portuguese) can differentiate the two in the same way, if I'm not mistaken:

a Maria quiere Marco
a Maria la quiere Marco

But I don't think French can distinguish them without resorting to a different construction (like the first could be "c'est Marie que Marc aime" in certain contexts). I don't know about Italian, though, since it doesn't have an "accusative marker" like Spanish.

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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby algorrém » 2009-06-23, 21:41

modus.irrealis wrote:What sort of thing are you thinking of in English?

Unfortunately, I have no English grammar at hand. All I could find on quick online search was
this:
The clue that a sentence has a different surface structure than deep structure is a comma. (A comma has others uses too, for example, it is the clue that two structures are in parallel coordination.)

Let's look at the surface structure "This problem, I can solve."
First, we see by the comma that something has been moved out of deep
structure order. The deep structure is "I can solve this problem."

In the sentence "This problem, I can solve." the Object (this problem) has been pulled to the front of the sentence for the purpose of focus. This is called "fronting."


I'd tend to agree with the rest of you post, and I also would distinguish a "proper" OVS order and an "improper" one.

As an anecdote on the Portuguese accusative marker, I remember a guy in Greek class who had trouble distinguishing the accusative from the dative, since the preposition "a" (along with "para") is also the main marker for the Portuguese dative, and so he would translate both the Greek accusative and dative into identical Portuguese expressions.
O rei mandou me chamá / Pra casar com sua filha / Só de dote ele me dará / Oropa, França, Bahia / Me alembrei do meu ranchinho / Da roça, do meu feijão / Ai!, seu rei, não quero, não!

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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby modus.irrealis » 2009-06-28, 11:59

algorrém wrote:Unfortunately, I have no English grammar at hand. All I could find on quick online search was
this:

I know now what you were referring to, but that comma there is bothering me. I admit my knowledge of English punctuation is not as great as it should be, but I have to believe there should be no comma. There's no comma when it's something like "That I can't do" and I can't put a pause in (with a pause it'd be "This problem -- I can solve it" but then it feels like a restarted sentence). So I'm not sure about the comma/pause with English -- and also, it's limited to one order (OSV) in English. I can't imagine saying/writing something like "He saw the girl, George".

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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby Serafín » 2009-06-30, 20:28

a Maria quiere Marco
a Maria la quiere Marco

:arrow: A María la quiere Marco

The first one is impossible.
I can't imagine saying/writing something like "He saw the girl, George".

I say such things A LOT in Spanish, but without any pause, specially VSO/VOS.

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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby loqu » 2009-06-30, 20:37

It's not impossible, it sounds OK in some contexts :)
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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby Serafín » 2009-06-30, 20:38

loqu wrote:It's not impossible, it sounds OK in some contexts :)

Like what contexts? :?

EDIT: Oh, oh, I see. After wh- questions. Interesting.

—¡¿A quién quiere Marco?!
—A María quiere Marco.

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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby YngNghymru » 2009-07-07, 23:25

Personally, I think that Chinese is the closest language to Latin.

*runs for cover*
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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby Babelfish » 2009-07-10, 9:27

:biglol: Somebody lock this thread right here, right now!

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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby YngNghymru » 2009-07-10, 16:46

Yeah, that Italian guy's stopped posting and the laughter's stopped. Pity. :P
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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby Varislintu » 2009-07-14, 17:51

Obler made a reappearance and I thus split the thread.

Obler, you told us you'd stay away if we asked you to. We did. Why not be man enough and follow your word? Or don't Italians keep their word?

I leave it up to KingHarvest whether to lock this thread or not :).
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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby catalinv » 2011-05-01, 4:28

Amice, scriu in romana ca sa intelegi: cred ca esti un semi-doct si un dobitoc!
semnat: un rOman (nu cu U)

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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby Zarcu Mihai » 2013-09-29, 10:00

obler9 wrote:“A key reason for Latin and Italian not having the same name is the spread of Latin beyond Italy, living rise to further complexes such as French and Spanish. It can, howewer, be argued that Italian bears a greater resemblance to Latin than Modern Greek does to Classical Greek and than contemporary English does to Old English/Anglo-Saxon” (Tom McArthur, “The English Languages”, 1998, Cambridge Univesity Press, p. 88)

“If we take into account both inherited and borrowed Latin vocabulary, THE MOST “ROMANCE” OF THE LANGUAGES IS ITALIAN, AND THE LEAST, RUMANIAN” (Rebecca Posner, “The Romance Languages”, 1996, Cambridge University Press, p. 94)

“Italian is considered by many to be the most beautiful of the world’s languages. As the transmitter of the great culture of the Renaissance, its influence on the other languages of Western Europe has been profound. ITALIAN is one of the Romance languages, and HAS REMAINED CLOSER TO THE ORIGINAL LATIN THAN ANY OF THE OTHERS” (Kenneth Katzner, “The Languages of the World”, p. 66)


“ON LEXICAL AN SYNTACTIC GROUNDS, I regard standard ITALIAN as THE PRIME
CANDIDATE FOR THE STATUS OF ROMANCE ARCHETYPE, as a language which has most
in common with each of the others. In some ways IT IS SO CLOSE TO LATIN THAT IS HAS
EVEN BEEN MISTAKEN FOR A COLLOQUIAL VARIETY OF THE LATIN LITERARY
LANGUAGE. ROUND THE “INNER CORE” REPRESENTED BY standard ITALIAN, THE OTHER LANGUAGES CLUSTER WITH GREATER OR LESS COHESION”. (Rebecca Posner, “The Romance Languages”, 1996, Cambridge University Press, pp.37-38)



“We can distinguish between a Proto-Romanian period (seventh-ninth centuries), preceding the disintegration into Daco-, Macedo-, Megleno-, and Istro-Romanian, and an Old Romanian period (ninth through early sixteenth centuries), the latter extending from the breakup of the Romanian linguistic unity to the earliest written attestation of Daco-Romanian and MARKED BY MASSIVE SLAVIC LINGUISTIC INTERFERENCE, which has left Romanian a Romance language heavily overlaid with SLAVIC elements (IN ALL PARTS OF ITS LINGUISTIC STRUCTURE). From a typological point of view, ROMANIAN IS CHARACTERIZED BY MANY BALKANISM, MAKING IT A PRIME MEMBER, along with Bulgarian, Macedonian, and Albanian (and only peripherally Serbo-Croatian and Modern Greek), OF THE BALKAN LANGUAGE LEAGUE” (Balazs Nagy, Nagy, János M. Bak, Marcell Sebők, Central European University Press, 1999)


"Specific text examples illustrate the development from Vulgar Latin to Italian on the lexical, morphological and syntactic levels. A comparison with French and Spanish, through the use of parallele texts, reveals the varying degrees of distance to Latin of Romance languages today, with French the fursthest away, Italian the closest and Spanish in a position midway between them" (Di Gunilla M. Anderman, Margaret Rogers, Peter Newmark "Word, Text, Translation")

"OF ALL THE VERNACULAR LANGUAGES of modern Europe, ITALIAN, for obvious reasons, was THE CLOSEST TO LATIN AS SPOKEN AND WRITTEN BY THE ROMANS: awareness of this simple fact led Italian scholars, from the thirteenth century onwards, into self-conscious efforts to purify their own language as a vehicle for composition and criticism by retrospective analysis of models surviving from classical antiquity" (Glynne Wickham, "The Medieval Theatre", Cambridge University Press)

"As for the modern standards, it is generally agreed that ITALIAN STAND CLOSEST TO THE ORIGINAL LATIN AND IS THE MOST CENTRAL, that is, most easily intelligibile to other Romanic speakers" (Robert Clifford
Ostergren, John G. Rice, "The Europeans")

"...But Latin was gradually displaced as the language of intellectual life for some countries in the course of the seventeenth century. Italians (e.g. Galileo) had for many years been ready to tackle the most important issues in their vernacular, but this readiness came in large part from their awareness that ITALIAN WAS THE CLOSEST LIVING LANGUAGE TO LATIN" (D. Garber, M. Ayers, "The Cambridge History of Seventeenth-Century Philosophy", Cambridge University Press, 2003)





Romanian the closest to Latin???? Who did post that nonsense?

I've nothing against Rumanians and Rumanian language. This is just a reply to some guys which is filling several forums with lies about their own language and the other members of the Romance family.

It's not a good thing to spread ignorance. Let's start to reply.

Vincit omnia veritas

IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE SCHOLARS, ITALIAN IS THE CLOSEST LANGUAGE TO LATIN

1. IF WE LOOK TO THE DECLENSION ONLY, THEN RUSSIAN IS THE CLOSEST LANGUAGE TO LATIN!

The Rumanian declension has NOTHING TO DO with the Latin one!

The Rumanian declension is just a BALKAN declension we can find in other Balkan languages related with Rumanian from a typologichal point of view and completely separated from the Romance family: see the ALBANIAN language that shares with Rumanian also the enclitic definite articles, the neuter gender and several words.

Is Albanian close to Latin? Of course it isn't!
Rumanian declension is due the Balkan background of Romania: nothing to do with the much more complex and refined Latin declensions.

For example, a feature of the Balkan Linguistic Union (Balkan sprachbund) is the syncretism of genitive and dative case.

In fact we find this characteristical declension with the syncretism of genitive and dative case in Albanian, Bulgarian, Slavic Macedonian, Modern Greek and, of course, in Rumanian

English : I gave the book to Maria; It is Maria’s book

Albanian: dat. Ja dhashë librin Marisë; gen. Është libri i Marisë-----------------------
Bulgarian: dat. dadoh knigata na marija; gen. knigata e na Marija-------------------
Slavic Macedonian: dat. ì ja dadov knigata na Marija; gen. knigata e na Marija---
Rumanian: dat. I-am dat cartea Mariei; gen. Este cartea Mariei-----------------------


In this Balkan declension, also the nominative and the accusative case have the same ending as well as the genitive and the dative case (the vocative is rare): practically Rumanian has just a pair of declension ending, that’s all.

Instead the Russian, the Serbo-croat declensions are much more complex and articulated. Much closer to the Latin declension (typologically).
Does it mean German, Russian and Serbo-croat are closer to Latin then the Romance Languages? Of course it doesn’t. They are not even Romance languages!
What is that makes Rumanian and not Russian a Romance language?!
It is the LEXICON!
So it’s ridicolous and so ingenous to think the Rumanian language stands closer to Latin then the other Romance languages just because it has that simple and rough Balkan declension!!
A language is made up of several lexilogical, morphological, phonological, grammatical, synctatical, semantic elements….
When we consider the various Romance Languages as whole, from every point of view, it becomes clear that ITALIAN IS THE CLOSEST LANGUAGE TO LATIN.



IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE SCHOLARS, ITALIAN IS THE CLOSEST LANGUAGE TO LATIN

2. RUMANIAN AND CLASSIC LATIN?????

It's funny to read a statement like this "Italian is the closest language to VULGAR latin, Rumanian the closest to CLASSIC Latin".
What?????????????? Just give me one quote from a scholar which expresses such a ridicolous opinion!
In accordance with the Rumanian official history, the origins of the Rumanian Language date back to the Roman colonization of Dacia. Well, Dacia was conquered in the second century A.D., and NONE SPOKE THE CLASSIC LATIN OF CICERO THEN, especially the Romans who colonized Dacia, who were just peasants and soldiers from the whole Roman World ("ex toto orbe romano")!!

The CLASSIC LATIN was the WRITTEN LITERARY Latin used by the most educated class and it lasted from the 1st century BC to the 2nd century AD.
Its usage was declining when the Romans made Dacia into a Roman province and it is obvious that the colonists of Dacia (peasants and soldiers from different areas of the Empire) belonged to the “VULGUS”, the COMMON PEOPLE OF THE EMPIRE: SO THEY SPOKE ONLY VULGAR LATIN.
Dacia was not even a deeply Romanized Province: it was in fact an IMPERIAL province, and THE ROMANS ABANDONED DACIA AFTER 165 YEARS ONLY!

NONE DID NEVER SPEAK CLASSIC LATIN IN THE TERRITORIES OF THE PRESENT DAY ROMANIA!
So it's obvious that Rumanian can't be the closest language to a language that noone did ever speak among the supposed "ancestors" of the romanian people!

And when someone says something like "Classic Latin", I think especially of Cicero, Virgil, Horace (the Golden Age Latin):
Cicero was from central Italy, Virgil from northern Italy and Horace from southern Italy.

Did ever exist a Latin poet or writer from Dacia?! NOWAY!

If someone wants to use the adjective VULGAR (from the latin VULGUS, common people, people), then the Rumanian language is the most vulgar of the Romance languages: in fact it is the only Romance language without an important literary tradition. In the old territories of the Present-Day Rumania was spoken by the common people only (the nobles spoke and wrote Slavic, Hungarian, Greek).
Even “Rumanian” is a derivative of “Rumân” that originally was a synonym with “dependent peasant”, while the Slavs called the Rumanian folk “Vlach” that was a synonym with “shepherd”. Rumanian was the language of the lowest class. Instead since the Renaissance Humanism, Italian was an elitist language and after Dante, Petrarca and Boccaccio (“Le tre corone”), the Italian literature became a Classic: the first Classic literature written in a vernacular language!
So, within the Romance languages, Rumanian is “Vulgar”, Italian (as well as French) is “Classic”.

Did ever exist a Dacian Virgil? No way!
Did ever exist a Rumanian Dante? NO WAY!

IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE SCHOLARS, ITALIAN IS THE CLOSEST LANGUAGE TO LATIN (every kind of Latin)


3. RUMANIAN AND ITALIAN: ON THE ENDING OF THE NOUNS

I've even read "Rumanian kept the end in -U of the Classic Latin, Italian turned it into –O” ( In Italian “-O” AND “-E” are the possible endings of the singular masculine nouns).

OMG! Cans someone show just one Latin noun ending in –U, not a neuter from the 4th declension (the poorest Latin declension)?

There are many masculine nouns ending in -US (nominative, second declension). But -US is not -U!
How many Rumanian nouns end in –us? None.

Is the author of a sentence like that able to tell us that these words ending in -O are not Classic Latin?

---------------------HOMO (Italian= Uomo, Romanian= bărbat), man

---------------------INVENTIO (Italian= Invenzione, inventiva). "Inventio" is one of the principles of the rhetoric

I am considering only the Nominative case now.

If we look to the other cases, we notice that the ablative and the dative cases of the second declension end exactly in -O

-------------------------Lupus, -i, -O (dat.), -um, -e, -O (abl.)---------------------------

So, we see the 6 cases of the second declension: two cases end EXACTLY in -O, one end in -uS and an other end in –uM; noone ends in –u. The only Latin cases ending in “-U” are in the fourth declension, a very poor declension.

And what about the thousands of Rumanian words ending in letters that the Latins did never place at the end of a word?!

See “luP” and its Nom./Gen.: LupuL
Latin words ending in P? Latin words ending in L? NOWAY!

Let’s see the REAL ENDINGS of the Rumanian nouns!-----------------------------

Rumanian Musculine gender, various endings:

-T (student, “student”),
-IST (ziarist, “journalist”),
-IAN (tehnician, “technicist”),
-E (peşte, “fish”),
-U ( -it’s very rare- erou “hero”),
-I (-rare- unchi, “uncle”)
-L (cal, “horse”), and others consonants…. I don’t see any –US; I don’t see any –UM… Just I see a rare –u….

IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE SCHOLARS, ITALIAN IS THE CLOSEST LANGUAGE TO LATIN




4. THE SO CALLED RUMANIAN “NEUTER” IS NOT A NEUTER AND IT IS IRRELATED WITH LATIN!

A)Actually the so called “Rumanian neuter” is NOT even a neuter but just a group of AMBIGENOUS NOUNS.
There is no Rumanian neuter but just a LARGE group of ambigenous nouns that are masculine in the singular and feminine in the plural: differently from Latin, they have not a characteristic neuter ending but just a masculine ending in the singular and a feminine ending in the plural.

On the other hand, in ITALIAN there is a little group of ambigenous nouns that are NOT neuter but that are morphological derivatives of the Latin neuter: they have perfectly kept the ending “-A” of the Latin second-declension neuter nominative-accusative plural, for example:

It.:Il braccio (“the arm”)/le braccia(“the arms”); (n. lat. BRACCHIUM/ BRACCHIA)
It.: Il labbro (“the lip”)/ le labbra ( “the lips”); (n. lat. LABRUM/ LABRA)
It: l’osso (“the bone”)/ le ossa (“the bones”); (n. lat. OSSUM/ OSSA), etc.

The Rumanian ambigenous nouns are really a lot (some of 25-30 per cent of nouns fall into this class) and they appear to be productive, having spread to words of non-Romance origin, but it’s important to rememember they are just nouns that are masculine in the singular and feminine in the plural: they are NOT neuter.
In fact THE LATIN NEUTER NOUNS NORMALLY HAVE BECOME FEMININE IN RUMANIAN.
The rumanian ambigenous nouns (wrongly called “neuter”) can be view as a strange sub-class of the “feminine” (something that did never exist in Latin): in fact it seems that Rumanian ambigenous nouns are usually inanimate whereas the masculine nouns are predominantly animate, but the feminine class is by far the largest one and contains mostly inanimate nouns; so it can be considered as the TRUE unmarked gender class.
Quotes:
The Rumanian “so called neuter form does not constitute a separate class and does not continue the Latin system” (Rebecca Posner, “The Romance Languages”, 1996, Cambridge University Press p.70)
“Also doubtless a result of Slavic contact is the existence of a so-called neuter gender in Rumanian” (Graham Mallinson, “Rumanian”, in “The Romance Languages”, p. 400)


B) CONTRARLY TO LATIN, ITALIAN AND SPANISH, IN RUMANIAN THE GENDER IS NOT DIRECTLY RELATED TO SEX REFERENCE!
Rumanian makes little use of noun-form class to differentiate the sex of animates.

The Rumanian gender is completely different from the Latin, Italian and Spanish ones! A gender that is not directly related to sex reference works in a very contradictory way and of course it seriously contradicts the Latin, Italian and Spanish use of noun-form class.




5. PHONOLOGY AND LEXICON!!

A) Talking about phonetic and vocabulary, there is not any Romance Language so distant from Latin as Rumanian, that contains a lot of slavicism and various balkanism, plus several Slavic words, Greek words, some word of Turkish origin, and other words of various Balkan origins (many of these are shared with Albanian).
Quotes:
_ “Much more substantial than the Germanic adstrate in the Western Romance Languages is the Slavic adstrate in Balkan Romance” (Graham Mallinson, “Rumanian”, in “The Romance Languages”, p. 413)
_“The Slavic words incontestably form the second constitutive element of the Romanian language. Grammatical structures and phonetics have also been touched by Slavic influence. There are also a number of Slavic prefixes and suffixes which are used to form families of words and which give a more general Slavic colouring to the Romanian language” (Lucian Boia, “Romania. Borderland of Europe”, Reaktion books, p. 55)


The Rumanians are the only Romance speakers which use Slavic words to express their feelings.

Is this word Old Latin, Classic Latin, Late Latin, Vulgar Latin or what else:
“dragoste”, Love?

In all the Romance languages, except Rumanian, the word “Love” derives from the Latin “AMOR”

Lat.: Amor
Italian: Amore (Lat. Accusative “Amore(m)”)
Spanish: Amor
French: Amour
Rumanian: Dragoste (what is this??)

In all the Romance languages, the verb “to love” is a Latin derivative. With the exception of Rumanian…

Latin: Amare
Italian: Amare
Spanish: Amar
French: Aimer
Rumanian: A Iubi (Slavic derivative)

According to the linguist Alexandru Niculescu "Rumanian is the only Romance language that has failed to preserve amor, carus, amare, sponsa, etc., replacing them by [the Slavic words] dragoste (love), drag (dear), a iubi (to love), nevastă (wife), logodnă (betrothal), a logodi (to betrothe)..".


I did never see these graphemes in the standard Latin alphabet: Nonetheless they are in the standard Rumanian alphabet:

Ă
Â
Î
Ş
Ţ
W

Departing from the Latin six-vowel pattern, modern standard Rumanian has developed two central vowels not found in other standard Romance language stressed vowel system: Ă (the shwa) and Î (the close central arounded vowel: it is pronunced like the “e” of “roses” in some english dialects).
These two central vowels are one of the several Slavic borrowings that affected the phonology of several Rumanian words of Latin origin and that make the Rumanian pronunciation very Eastern and distant fom the Latin one. See a comparison with Latin and Italian, the closest language to Latin.
LATIN: Campum (“field”); ITALIAN: Campo. RUMANIAN: Cîmp
LATIN: Canto (“I sing”); ITALIAN: Canto. RUMANIAN: Cînt
LATIN: Lanam (“wool”); ITALIAN: Lana. RUMANIAN: Lînă
LATIN: Venam (“vein”); ITALIAN: Vena. RUMANIAN: Vînă
LATIN: Ventum (“wind”); ITALIAN: Vento. RUMANIAN: Vînt, Etc……..
Even without considering the vowel borrowed from the Slavic languages, Rumanian OFTEN replaces the original vowels of its Latin derivatives with other vowels.
LATIN: Mentem (“mind”); ITALIAN: Mente. RUMANIAN: Minte
LATIN: Animam(“soul”); ITALIAN: Anima (soul). RUMANIAN: Inima (heart)
LATIN: Gentem (“people”); ITALIAN: Gente. Rumanian: Gint
Etc………………….….
Some WORDS OF BALKAN ORIGIN Rumanian shares with Albanian:
Albanian: avull (“steam”); Rumanian: abure. ITALIAN: Vapore <Lat. Vaporem.
Albanian: mës (“colt”); Rumanian: mîs. ITALIAN: Puledro <Lat. Pullitrum
Albanian: vatrë (“hearth”); Rumanian: vatră. ITALIAN: Focolare <Lat. Foculare < Focus “fire”
Albanian: shkrump (“ash”); Rumanian: scrum. ITALIAN: Cenere < Lat. Cinerem

B) Rumanian Cardinal numbers eleven-nineteen are modelled on a Slavic pattern (“one on ten”, “two on ten”, “three on ten”, ecc.) though using Romance morphemes.

unsprezece “eleven” (“spre” = “on”). Italian: undici < Latin: undecim
douăsprezece “twelve”. Italian: dodici < Latin: duodecim
treisprezece “thirteen”. Italian: tredici < Latin: tredecim
paisprezece “fourteen”. Italian: quattordici < Latin: quattuordecim
cincisprezece “fifteen”. Italian: quindici < Latin: quindecim
şaisprezece “sixteen”. Italian: sedici < Latin: sedecim
şaptasprezece “seventeen”. Italian: diciassette < Latin: decem septem
optsprezece “eighteen”. Italian: diciotto < Latin: decem octo < duodeviginti…
nouăsprezece “nineteen”

Rumanian multiples of ten are represented by “two tens”, “three tens” etc., again a Slavic calque:

douăzeci “twenty”
treizeci “thirty”
patruzeci “forty”
cinzeci “fifty”
şaizeci “sixty”
şaptezeci “seventy”
optzeci “eighty”
nouăzeci “ninety”

Finally, “one hundred” is Slavic too: sută (< suto). In Latin it is CENTUM (> Italian: “cento”).

C) Contrary to Latin and other Romance Languages (Italian, Spanish, Portuguese…), Rumanian does not use any syntetic form to express the absolute superlative.
In order to form the absolute superlative, Italian, Spanish and Portuguese can modify the adjective by taking away the final vowel and adding “-issimo/a”, “-issimi/e” (Italian), “-ìsimo/a”, “-ìsimos/as”(Spanish)…, derivatives of the Latin “issimus/a/um/i/ae/a”
--Latin: Velocissimus/a (“very fast”) > Italian: Velocissimo/a. ------Latin: Canis velocissimus non est (“The dog is not very fast”) > Italian: Il cane non è velocissimo.
Instead Rumanian superlative absolute is only periphrastic (foarte/tare + adjective): ----“Am citit o carte foarte proastă” (“I read a very bad book”). The same sentence in Latin could be “Foedissimum librum legi”.
Italian and Portuguese even keep an other Latin syntetic method to make the absolute superlative of adjectives ending in “-re”(deriviting from Latin words ending in -er), that is the suffixes -errimo (singular masculine), -errima (singular feminine), -érrimos/errimi (plural masculine), or -érrimas/errime (plural feminine):
--Latin: Acer > abs. superl. Acerrimus; Italian: Acre > abs. superl. Acerrimo --Latin: Celeber > abs. superl. Celeberrimus; Italian: Celebre > abs. superl. Celeberrimo, etc……
D) Since this little group of Rumanians trying spamming their preposterous ideas about the Romance languages do not know Latin and the various Romance Languages, they state a lot of things which are pure nonsense (as I showed till now): among them, they write a list of words or morphological phenomena and assert these exist only in Rumanian, while they exist in other Romance languages, where they are even more common… At the moment I remember they say only Rumanian has kept the diphtong “AU”. What?? Probably they do not know any Italian word.
Latin: CAUSA > Italian: CAUSA. Latin: LAUTUM > Italian: LAUTO;
Latin: GAUDIUM > Italian: GAUDIO. Latin: PAUSA > Italian: PAUSA;
Latin: CAUTUM > Italian: CAUTO. Latin: LAURUM > Italian: LAURO.
Latin: AURA > Italian: AURA. Latin: CLAUSULAM > Italian: CLAUSOLA,
Etc…….

E) LATIN AND ITALIAN CONSONANT LENGHT------------------------------
While all the Romance languages lost the Latin vowel lenght system, ITALIAN, having the most conservative Romance phonology (together with Sardinian) and vocabulary, is the ONLY national Romance language that has kept the Latin distinctive CONSONANT GEMINATION and CONSONANT LENGHT, which depend on each other.
The Italians are the ONLY Neo-Latin speakers who keep this sense of the consonant lenght, lost in all the other National Romance languages.
And in ITALIAN as well as in LATIN, the consonant lenght is DISTINCTIVE from a semantic point of view.
--LATIN: feRum (“wild”), feRRum (“iron”) > ITALIAN: fieRo (“wild” or “proud”), feRRo (“iron”).
--LATIN: aNum (“anus”), aNNum (“year”) > ITALIAN: aNo (“anus”), aNNo (“year”)
--LATIN: eRat (“he was”), eRRat (“he wanders”) > ITALIAN: eRa (“he was”), eRRa (“he wanders”)
--LATIN: moLem (“mass”), moLLem (“soft”) > ITALIAN: moLe (“mass”); moLLe (“soft”)
LATIN: coLare (“to filter”), coLLare (“collar”) > ITALIAN: coLare (“to filter”); coLLare (“collar”), Etc………………………

An other quote:
"A Romanian who hears Italian spoken can understand quite a lot (those Roman ancestors count something, after all!); an Italian will understand much less Romanian, confused by the Slavic and oriental words and by the pronunciation. In any case, an Italian will never speak Romanian perfectly. On the other hand, many Bulgarians learn Romanian very well and speak it without accent. Are the Romanians closer to the Italians or to the Bulgarians? Who can say?” (Lucian Boia, “Romania. Borderland of Europe”, p. 58)


IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE SCHOLARS, ITALIAN IS THE CLOSEST LANGUAGE TO LATIN


6. VERBAL SYSTEM!!

Quotes:

--“Verb morphology is one of the most diagnostic features for recognizing a Romance language” (Rebecca Posner, “The Romance Languages”, 1996, Cambridge University Press,p. 39)

--“In its evolution, Romanian simplified the original Latin tense system in extreme ways” (Yves D’hulst, Martine Coene, Larisa Avram, “Syncretic and analytic tenses in Romanian”, in “Balkan Syntax ans Semantics”, pag. 366)

A) In comparison with Latin and the other Romance languages, the Rumanian verbal system IS LACKING in some TENSES!
DIFFERENTLY FROM LATIN, Italian and the other western Romance languages, RUMANIAN SUBJUNCTIVE IS WITHOUT:

1_The Imperfect

2_The Pluperfect (both VERY important for the Latin syntax!)

Rumanian subjunctive has only a present and a perfect tense.
Besides, the rumanian perfect subjunctive is not even conjugated (differently from the Latin one):
Rum.: Eu fi cîntat, Tu fi cîntat, El fi cîntat, Noi fi cîntat, Voi fi cîntat, Ei fi cîntat (where’s the conjugation?)

Of course Italian and the other Romance languages as well as Latin have a conjugated perfect subjunctive, a conjugated pluperfect subjunctive and a conjugated imperfect subjunctive.

Ital.: Io cantassi, Tu cantassi, Egli cantasse, Noi cantassimo, Voi cantaste…
Fr.: Que je chantasse, Que tu chantasses, Qu'il chantât, Que nous chantassions, Que vous chantassiez…
Rumanian: ???, ???, ???, ???, ???, ???
Ital.: Io avessi cantato, tu avessi cantato, egli avesse cantato, noi avessimo cantato, voi aveste cantato...
Fr.: Que j'eusse chanté, Que tu eusses chanté, Qu'il eût chanté, Que nous eussions chanté
Rum: ???, ???, ???, ???, ???, ???

B) Differently from Latin and the other Romance languages, RUMANIAN IS WITHOUT THE PRESENT PARTICIPLE:

Latin: amare > amante(m); Italian: amare > amante. Rumanian: ???
Latin: turbare > turbante(m); Italian: turbare > turbante. Rum.:???
Latin: vincere > vincente(m); Italian: vincere > vincente. Rumanian: ???

Italian has even kept something from the Latin future participle:

Latin: nasciturum/a/i/ae (the one who will be born); Italian: nascituro/a/i/e
Latin moriturum/a/i/ae (the one who will die); Italian: morituro/a/i/e


C) The strange rumanian guys who state Rumanian is the closest language to “classic Latin” (???), are proud to say that Rumanian has 4 conjugations as well as Latin; while the other Romance Languages have 3 conjugations…
But a further fact it that all the Romance languages lost the Latin distinction between short and long vowels. Since the distinction between the long and the short vowels was lost, it is useless and meaningless to keep 4 conjunctions because the second and the third conjugations differed from each other only due the quantity of the wovel “E” : 2nd coniug. “-ēre”, 3th coniug. “-ere”.

The comparison between the ending of the Italian infinitives and the ending of the Latin ones shows perfectly this Romance situation

--Latin: -are; Italian: -are
--Latin: -ēre (2nd coniug.) and -ere (3th coniug.); Italian: "-ere"
--Latin: -ire; Italian -ire



D) Differently from the other Romance Languages, Rumanian infinitive has completely lost the Latin termination –RE, and it is marked by the particle “a”. It appears morphologically very strange within the Romance languages. (Although a so-called “long infinitive” has been kept in Rumanian, it is NOT a verbal form).

---Latin: amare (to love); Italian: amare. Rumanian: a iubi
---Latin: esse > essere (to be); Italian: essere. Rum.: a fi
---Latin: dormire (to sleep); Italian: dormire. Rum.: a dormi, Etc.




E) Rumanian is the only Romance language that, differenlty from Latin, has not a syntetic future, but a periphrastic future construction using the verb meaning “want” as auxiliar: once more this feature in one of the various Balkanisms Rumanian share with the other members of the Balkan Linguistic Union.

--Rumanian future tense, periphrastic (a merge, “to go”):
voi merge, vei merge, va merge, vom merge, veţi merge, vor merge.

--Italian future tense, syntetic (andare, “to go”):
andrò, andrai, andrà, andremo, andrete, andranno.





F) Rumanian has several homonyms and homographs within its paradigms. E. g. differently from Latin and other Romance languages, the standard Rumanian does not distinguish more than five personal endings in the present indicative:

In the Rumanian a-conjugation, person 3 is identical with person 6. Instead Italian distinguishes 6 personal endings, as well as Latin.


--Latin: Cantat (he sings), Cantant (they sing)

--Italian: Canta (he sings), Cantano (they sing)

--Rumanian: Cîntă = “he sings”, “they sing”

Whereas in the other Rumanian conjugations, person 1 is the same as person 6


--Latin: Teneo (I hold), Tenent (they hold)

--Italian: Tengo (I hold), Tengono (they hold)

--Rumanian: Tin = “I hold”, “they hold”




7. SYNTAX!!!

A) A Quote :
“As opposed to most Western Romance Languages, Romanian has an extremely reduced deictic tense system in which a single past morpheme can express both the relation between Event Time and Reference Time and between Reference Time and Speech Time […]
Classical and Vulgar Latin had two distinct morphems to express past in T1 and past in T2: /ba/ for past of R with respect to S and /v/ for past of E with respect to R. Already in early Vulgar Latin, intervocalic [b] and [v] frequently got mixed up and both have been erased in their evolution towards Romanian. As a consequence of this evolution, past in T1 and past in T2 could not longer be distinguished from each other […] CONRARY TO LATIN OR THE OTHER ROMANCE LANGUAGES, ROMANIAN ceased to have morphems directly expressing “past of R with respect to S” or “past of E with respect to R” but ended up with having one single morpheme expressing mere “past” […] Romanian has no distinct past morphemes for T1 and T2 as in Latin or the other Romance languages, but it has instead two “synonymous” past morphemes wich can both be used indifferently in T1 and T2. In other words, in its evolution, ROMANIAN SIMPLIFIED THE ORIGINAL LATIN TENSE SYSTEM IN EXTREME WAYS: taking into account the loss of future in T1 and T2, and the equation of past in T1 and T2 it ended up with only one morpheme (but two allomorphs) which express just this single relationship, namely “past”.” (Yves D’hulst, Martine Coene, Larisa Avram, “Syncretic and analytic tenses in Romanian”, in “Balkan Syntax ans Semantics”, p. 355 and 365-6)


Rumanian is the only Romance language that completely lost the Latin CONSECUTIO TEMPORUM!
The “Consecutio Temporum” is one of the most characteristic element within the Latin Syntax (the ones who really studied Latin know it very well). So that it is impossibile to reproduce the refined Syntax of the greatest Latin authors in a language that has not Consecutio Temporum.
And did I even hear a pair of rumanian guys saying “Romanian is close to classic Latin”??!
Is this a jock or what? Did you ever read Cicero or Quintilianus and look to your syntax before stating such a ridicolous thing?!! Have you any idea of the importance of the Syntax within the classic Latin prose?
Are you able to understand that the Rumanian syntax is the least Latin of the Romance syntaxes? The same for the Rumanian verbal system.
Are you able to understand that Rumanian phonetics sounds so eastern that should be ridicolous to think of a man reading a Latin poetry with all the Slavic inflexions even the Latin derivatives of Rumanian language have?





B) In comparison with Latin and the other Romance languages, Rumanian is lacking in syntactic constructions with the infinitive mode.

This reduction of the infinitive within the syntactic construction and its large substitution by final, consecutive and declarative subordinate structures is an other typical characteristic of the Balkan Linguistic Union.

Differently from Rumanian, Latin and all the other Romance languages give a big syntactic importance to the infinitive mood.


I have never seen a dumb person like you in MY ENTIRE LIFE!!! You're a unique specimen.
Not only because you spread bogus things about Romanian but you insult us aswell!
Ego Civis Macedono-Romanicvs Svm!

Zarcu Mihai
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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby Zarcu Mihai » 2013-09-29, 11:12

You say that our Declesions looks like the Russian ones...But you have none! Have you ever studied Russian? You have NO idea about Romanian language! First of all Romanian has gotten an Balkanic Style case but with Latin endings! Russian has nothing to do with Romanian neither at lexis! Our vocab has been influenced by Church Slavonic and Old Bulgarian!You say that Vocative is rarely used in Romanian....so it has only one case,Genitive/Dative then if Vocative exists why shouldnt be included? You're just spreading crap things just make a bad look about Romanian! The -ist ending you have included are for neologism adjectives...you have gotten them too...but with an -o at the end from Medieval Latin. What about -e ending? Yes Peşte means fish in Romanian but how do you call it in Italian? Ofcourse! Its Pisce!!! -u endings has dissapearded from many Romanian words however it was present in Old Romanian vocab.But look at this!Lat.imperium Ro.imperiu Lat.sortilegum Ro.sortilegiu It.sortilegio,Lat.centrum Ro.centru It.centro Lat.thaetrum Ro.teatru ETC...But it is still present in Aromanian especially the Pindean Dialect! -i ending is Rare? IT makes part of ch ending an palatization of the consonants group "cl" that happened to be in your language to! Lat.oricla It.orechia Ro.ureche Lat.oclum It.occhio Ro.ochi or "gl" group Lat.ungla It.unghia Ro.unghie! -l ending? Oh yes the final "u" dissapeared but how i said it remained in some Aromanian dialects. Lat. Caballu(m) Arom. calu It. cavallo Ro.cal , Lat. focu(m) Arom.focu It.fuoco Ro.foc so thats why you dont find US UM in Literar Romanian. About the Neuter Gender...so you have proved your stupidness by showing that Italian has an "Neuter" gender but that so-called neuter behaves like ours!... About lexicon and Phonology.... yes Dragoste and Iubire are slavicisms that doesnt mean that Lexicon is almost slavic...but Nevasta is only used at country-side we use the latin. word "soţie" from "socia" which is formed on Dacian teritorry. "W" used in Romanian language???? HAHAHAHAHAH oh god you killed me...The only Romance language that uses "W" in native words is Walloon!...Oh god this is so damn funny =)))). So you have included "î" which is nowadays the Moldavian "â" you know that letter is arhaic in Literar Romanian but if you prefer the old Romanian one then i have no problem. But in Aromanian ş ţ â î does not exists ă eventually
turned "ã"
LATIN: Campum (“field”); ITALIAN: Campo. RUMANIAN: Cîmp, Arom.cãmpu
LATIN: Canto (“I sing”); ITALIAN: Canto. RUMANIAN: Cînt ,Arom:(io) cãntu
LATIN: Lanam (“wool”); ITALIAN: Lana. RUMANIAN: Lînă, Arom.lãnã
LATIN: Ventum (“wind”); ITALIAN: Vento. RUMANIAN: Vînt,Arom.vãntu or ventu (there are 3 main dialects Pindean,Grumushtean and Farsherot, the first one is considered the most conservative in terms of romance of all dialects)
Vînă??? in Literar Romanian?? This is a dialectal word!...In Literar it is "venă"
About these words in common with Albanian...yes yes it is a substrata but have you got one? ofcourse you have gotten substrata from Greek,Galic! And these words are not of Balkan origin but Thracic...HIT THE DAMN BOOK!!! Bulgarian and Serbo-Croatian literary borrowed from Thracic languages some lexis.When they came here but before that only the Daco-Romans( Romanised dacians),and Illyrians(Albanians) were there which they were practically related !
For scrum we aslo got the latin. word cenuşă from cenusia aswell for abur we have got vapor,but unfortunately it is a neologism...Yes the numerals copy the Slavic logic but do not forget that Aromanian has inghitsi from Lat.Vingti for 20 and it has tsentu for 100 from lat.Centum.
Aura it is not a noun in Italian,but a name!...anyway for gold it is "oro" Arom.auru and Ro.aur and eventually "au" difthong dissapeared in the most Western Romance languages being replaced with late latin/Medieval lat."O"Fr.or Sp/It.oro,etc.
we have gotten as well this name!
Ital.: Io cantassi, Tu cantassi, Egli cantasse, Noi cantassimo, Voi cantaste…
Fr.: Que je chantasse, Que tu chantasses, Qu'il chantât, Que nous chantassions, Que vous chantassiez…
Rumanian: eu cântasei ,tu cântaseşi,el cântase,noi cântaserăm,voi cântaserăţi ,ei cântasera
Ital.: Io avessi cantato, tu avessi cantato, egli avesse cantato, noi avessimo cantato, voi aveste cantato...
Fr.: Que j'eusse chanté, Que tu eusses chanté, Qu'il eût chanté, Que nous eussions chanté
Rum: Eu avusei cântat,tu avuseși cântat,el avuse cântat,noi avuserăm cântat ,voi avuserăţi cântat,ei avuseră cântat
These tenses did not dissapeared in Romanian,nor these are used less in literar Romanian!Hit the book and study romanian!It is not hard!Especially for you ,Italian!Romanian has lost the infinitive? Well actually it dissapeared but it got revived! Vreau a cânta,i want to sing,but it is not used that much in Literar Romanian,Sicilian has gotten lost the infinitive due the greek influence, as well! Vogghiu mu ddormu (in apuliuan) ,i want to sleep! Romanian is the only romance language that has not an Synthetic Future??You're sure that you have studied Romance languages? Rhaeto-Romansch- el vegn ad chantar (lit.he comes to sing) for he will sing!... Sardinian- as a faeddare (lit.you have to speak) for i will speak...neither Southern Italian dialects doesnt work with Synthetic Future.Yes the Romanian one uses the "volere" tu vei cânta (lit.you want to sing) for you will sing.
Lat. basium
It. bacio
Port. beijo
Rom. sărut
Sard. basu
Span. beso
Arom.bashu
Dude where does "sei" came from for "you are"?
Lat. somnium
It. sogno
Port. sonho
Rom. vis (somn) if you are reffering to dream while sleeping then it is "somn" but if it is about something that you wish then it is "vis"
Span. sueño
Arom.somniu
Many Romanian words derive from Lat. whith a truncated sense??? Lol ok man you have showed enough stupidness ,just look at the other Romance languages,or STUDY EM! And stop insulting my Language.It has less truncated words than Spanish or Even Italian....No Romance language is perfect in semantic sense. "Eu fi cîntat, Tu fi cîntat, El fi cîntat, Noi fi cîntat, Voi fi cîntat, Ei fi cîntat"- this is a tense invented by you...dude stop being dumb please.eu fui cântat,tu fuși cântat ,el fuse cântat ,noi furăm cântat,voi furăți cântat,ei fură cântat -this would be the correct form.In semantic sense Romanian is more related to Latin than some Romance languages! Orthography is Related to Latin as other romance languages does! Does Latin had an Article? NO! Do any Romance language except Romanian has Declesions?Absolutely NO!Romanian was ISOLATED from OTHER Romance languages for MORE THAN 1600 YEARS! THE OTHER ROMANCE LANGUAGES WE'RE BEING INFLUENCED BY CATHOLIC CHURCH'S LATIN! The Phonology is at the same level with Italian! Just take a look lat.vox It,Ro.Voce
lat.felix It.felice Ro.ferice lat.melem It.miele Ro.miere! Have you seen the French ,Portuguese or Spanish phonology? Hell no! These languages has a greater distance from Lat.phonology Than Italian and Romanian. neither Italian is not the closest to Latin! Not even the Phonology,Grammar!Italian Lexicon has sighificant Germanic,Greek,Gaulic words ! Romanian has significant Lexicon with Slavic,Greek,Maghyar or Turkish words.Portuguese,Spanish:Arabic ,Germanic,Greek,Gaulish and Native American French: has strong Germanic vocab Greek and Gaulish words especially with the modern Germanic languages loans (English,Dutch,German). Italian is NOT THE CLOSEST LANGUAGE TO LATIN! Romanian is AS latin AS other Eastern Romance languages (Dalm. today extinct, Sicilian,Neapolitan,Italian!).Stop making my language look bad,you're just jealous of our latinity of Romanian! It has it special features with Romansch ,Italian,Sicilian,Sardinian,Dalmatian! Roman soldiers from all Roman Empire Provincies? I'd rather say THE WHOLE ITALIA Province + Sicilia,Sardinia and Rhaetia!Our language WAS IS and WILL BE a Romance language!
Sorry guys but this that person made me nervous of his bogus posts...
Last edited by Zarcu Mihai on 2013-09-29, 14:33, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby Zarcu Mihai » 2013-09-29, 12:34

Sorry about mistakes but i was in hurry!:)I hope you understand that Romanian is conservative and really Close to latin,more than most of the romance languages !Sardinian would be first though i find it easy to learn especially for an Aromanian than other romance languages!it is NOT an opinion BUT a fact!
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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby Levike » 2013-09-29, 14:58

Zarcu Mihai wrote:I hope you understand that Romanian is conservative and really Close to Latin,more than most of the romance languages

It's not that close.
I understand that it has preserved some features that others have lost
but the other Latin languages also have many thing that are no longer present in Romanian.
Either way Italian is closer.

But it's understandable since geographically we were separated.
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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby Bernard » 2013-09-29, 18:13

Comparate quaeso ipsi! :hmm:

[flag]la[/flag] Pater noster, qui es in caelis, sanctificetur nomen tuum. Adveniat regnum tuum.
Fiat voluntas tua, sicut in caelo, et in terra. Panem nostrum cotidianum da nobis hodie. Et dimitte nobis debita nostra, sicut et nos dimittimus debitoribus nostris. Et ne nos inducas in temptationem,sed libera nos a malo.
[flag]it [/flag]Padre nostro, che sei nei cieli, sia santificato il tuo nome, venga il tuo regno,
sia fatta la tua volonta, come in cielo cosi in terra. Dacci oggi il nostro pane quotidiano, e rimetti a noi i nostri debiti come noi li rimettiamo ai nostri debitori, e non ci indurre in tentazione, ma liberaci dal male.
[flag]es[/flag] Padre nuestro, que estas en el cielo, sanctificado sea tu nombre; venga a nosotros tu reino; hagase tu voluntad en la tierra como en el sielo. Danos hoy nuestro pan de cada dia;
perdona nuestras ofensas, como tambien nosatros perdonamos a los que nos ofenden; no nos dejes caer en la tentacion, y libranos del mal.
[flag]ro[/flag] Tatal nostru care esti în ceruri! Sfinteasca-se Numele Tau; vie împaratia Ta;
faca-se voia Ta, precum în cer si pe pamînt. Pînea noastra cea de toate zilele da-ne-o noua astazi; si ne iarta noua greselile noastre, precum si noi iertam gresitilor nostri; si nu ne duce în ispita, ci izbaveste-ne de cel rau. Caci a Ta este împaratia si puterea si slava în veci.

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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby Levike » 2013-09-29, 18:26

Yeah, this kind of proves that there is a big difference.

And also Romanian evolved completely on the other side of the Roman Empire
and after the break-up of it, it didn't really enjoy Latin influence anymore.

it preserved some features but that's kind of it.
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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby Zarcu Mihai » 2013-10-04, 20:20

Bernard wrote:Comparate quaeso ipsi! :hmm:

[flag]la[/flag] Pater noster, qui es in caelis, sanctificetur nomen tuum. Adveniat regnum tuum.
Fiat voluntas tua, sicut in caelo, et in terra. Panem nostrum cotidianum da nobis hodie. Et dimitte nobis debita nostra, sicut et nos dimittimus debitoribus nostris. Et ne nos inducas in temptationem,sed libera nos a malo.
[flag]it [/flag]Padre nostro, che sei nei cieli, sia santificato il tuo nome, venga il tuo regno,
sia fatta la tua volonta, come in cielo cosi in terra. Dacci oggi il nostro pane quotidiano, e rimetti a noi i nostri debiti come noi li rimettiamo ai nostri debitori, e non ci indurre in tentazione, ma liberaci dal male.
[flag]es[/flag] Padre nuestro, que estas en el cielo, sanctificado sea tu nombre; venga a nosotros tu reino; hagase tu voluntad en la tierra como en el sielo. Danos hoy nuestro pan de cada dia;
perdona nuestras ofensas, como tambien nosatros perdonamos a los que nos ofenden; no nos dejes caer en la tentacion, y libranos del mal.
[flag]ro[/flag] Tatal nostru care esti în ceruri! Sfinteasca-se Numele Tau; vie împaratia Ta;
faca-se voia Ta, precum în cer si pe pamînt. Pînea noastra cea de toate zilele da-ne-o noua astazi; si ne iarta noua greselile noastre, precum si noi iertam gresitilor nostri; si nu ne duce în ispita, ci izbaveste-ne de cel rau. Caci a Ta este împaratia si puterea si slava în veci.

Showing the romanian pray wont prove Anything!!Because romanian has been influenced by church slavonic and the most words are used in the church but romanian has kept somehow an pure vocabulary compared to other Romance languages which all had been kept on Catholic Church's latin which is composed by late latin medieval and contemporan and these whic are compared to arhaic latin classical or Vulgar Latin is like comparing Russian with Polish.
Ego Civis Macedono-Romanicvs Svm!

Zarcu Mihai
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Real Name: Zarcu Mihai
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Country: RO Romania (România)
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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby Zarcu Mihai » 2013-10-04, 20:28

Just take a look to the romanian's pray without Slavic loans: :Tatal nostru care esti in ceruri ,sânteasca'se numele tau ,vie impartial ta,faca'se voia ta Precum in cer Asa si pe pamant,pained noastra cea de toate zilele da'ne noua astazi si ne iarta noua pacatele noastre precum si noi iertam pacatosilor nostrii si nu me Duce pe noi in tentatie si ne scapa de cel rau,Amin.
Last edited by Zarcu Mihai on 2013-10-05, 6:21, edited 1 time in total.
Ego Civis Macedono-Romanicvs Svm!


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