Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

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Levike
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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby Levike » 2013-10-06, 16:39

Zarcu Mihai wrote:Te rog acesta este numele meu de familie zi-mi Mihai însă chestia e că română este singura limbă romanică ,care are un gen neutru. ă este o literă de origine balcanică, ș este o schimbare regulată care s-a întâmplat să fie și în reto-romană cu S înainte de o consoană, dar â este la fel o schimbare din latină. Dar te înșeli latina cultă a existat din perioada 100 i.Hr ---> 200 e.n. Dacia a fost cucerită în 106, soldații au venit din toată peninsula Italia+Sardinia Sicilia și rhaetia si de asta se văd caracteristici similare cu toate dialectele italiene și sarda si reto-romana prin schimbarea sunetelor și a cuvintelor :)

Limba asturiană are un gen neutru care are caracteristici proprii.
Spre deosebire de română nu este un amalgam.
(m.) el tiempu
(f.) la nueche
(n.) lo guapo
Nem egy nap alatt épült Buda vára.

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Massimiliano B
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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby Massimiliano B » 2013-10-06, 16:48

JackFrost wrote:
Massimiliano B wrote:Italian and Romanian are really very close each other.

Of course. They're Romance languages.


I mean they are closer than Italian and Spanish.
Dette er nemlig Formelen, som beskriver Selvets Tilstand, naar Fortvivlelsen ganske er udryddet: i at forholde sig til sig selv, og i at ville være sig selv grunder Selvet gjennemsigtigt i den Magt, som satte det. (This is namely the formula, that describes the condition of the self, when despair is completely eradicated: by relating itself to itself, and by willing to be itself, the self is grounded transparently in the power which constituted it) (Søren Kierkegaard, The sickness unto death)

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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby Levike » 2013-10-06, 16:51

Massimiliano B wrote:I mean they are closer than Italian and Spanish.

Do you understand written Romanian better than the Spanish one?

Or did you mean to say that at a grammatical level they have more in common?

Funny how the second most discussed thread in the Latin forum is about Romanian. :lol:
Nem egy nap alatt épült Buda vára.

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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby Massimiliano B » 2013-10-06, 16:58

I say that at a grammatical level they have more in common.

Italian and Romanian are classified as East Romance languages, due to the fact that they form the plural with vowels. French, Spanish, Portuguese, Catalan, and Sardinian are West Romance languages because they form the plural with -s.
Dette er nemlig Formelen, som beskriver Selvets Tilstand, naar Fortvivlelsen ganske er udryddet: i at forholde sig til sig selv, og i at ville være sig selv grunder Selvet gjennemsigtigt i den Magt, som satte det. (This is namely the formula, that describes the condition of the self, when despair is completely eradicated: by relating itself to itself, and by willing to be itself, the self is grounded transparently in the power which constituted it) (Søren Kierkegaard, The sickness unto death)

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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby Zarcu Mihai » 2013-10-06, 19:08

Massimiliano B wrote:I say that at a grammatical level they have more in common.

Italian and Romanian are classified as East Romance languages, due to the fact that they form the plural with vowels. French, Spanish, Portuguese, Catalan, and Sardinian are West Romance languages because they form the plural with -s.

Da,noi avem multe in comun,de ce crezi ca sunt atat de multi Romani in italia,cam dublu decat in Spania oricum deoarece,Romanul s'ar duce unde ar fii bine platit pentru lucru si unde ingelege mai bine acolo se duce,si Spaniola e grea pentru un Roman.Faptul ca sunt Amandoua Limbi Romanice este un lucru insa faptul ca Italienii si Romanii sunt inruditi atunci asta este totalmente un alt lucru,deoare ce cum am zis acum ceva timp,Soldati din toata peninsula Italica impreuna cu Sicilia,Sardinia, si provincia Rhaetia! Daca te uiti mai atent la limba romana vei vedea ca are caracteristici diferite cu fiecare dialect Italian si cu Sarda si cu Reto-Romana!
Last edited by Zarcu Mihai on 2013-10-06, 19:16, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby Zarcu Mihai » 2013-10-06, 19:12

Levente wrote:
Zarcu Mihai wrote:Te rog acesta este numele meu de familie zi-mi Mihai însă chestia e că română este singura limbă romanică ,care are un gen neutru. ă este o literă de origine balcanică, ș este o schimbare regulată care s-a întâmplat să fie și în reto-romană cu S înainte de o consoană, dar â este la fel o schimbare din latină. Dar te înșeli latina cultă a existat din perioada 100 i.Hr ---> 200 e.n. Dacia a fost cucerită în 106, soldații au venit din toată peninsula Italia+Sardinia Sicilia și rhaetia si de asta se văd caracteristici similare cu toate dialectele italiene și sarda si reto-romana prin schimbarea sunetelor și a cuvintelor :)

Limba asturiană are un gen neutru care are caracteristici proprii.
Spre deosebire de română nu este un amalgam.
(m.) el tiempu
(f.) la nueche
(n.) lo guapo

Cam da,insa e singura limba Liberiana care a pastrat terminatiile in U impreuna cu Romana,Aromana,Siciliana,Sardiniana,Corsicana.
Si zici ca Asturiana are un neutru mai apropriat de latina? Pe wikipedia scrie asa:Asturian is the only western Romance language that possesses three genders: masculine, feminine and neuter.

1. Masculine nouns usually end by -u and sometimes by -e or consonant: el tiempu ('the time, the weather'), l’home ('the man'), el pantalón ('the trousers'), el xeitu ('the way, the mode'), etc.
2. Feminine nouns usually end by -a, but not always: la casa ('the house'), la xente ('the people'), la nueche ('the night').
3. Neuter nouns can have any ending in the nouns. In fact, Asturian neuters are of three kinds:
Masculine neuters: they have a masculine form and take a masculine article: el fierro vieyo ('old iron').
Feminine neuters: they have a feminine form and take a feminine article: la lleche frío ('cold milk')
Pure neuters: they are not nouns but nominal groups with and adjective and neuters pronouns: lo guapo d’esti asuntu ye... ('the interesting [thing] of this issue is...')

Neuter is marked specially in the adjective. So most adjectives have three endings: -u (masc.), -a (fem.) and -o (neuter), which are respectively:

El vasu ta fríu ('the glass is cold'), tengo la mano fría ('my hand is cold'), l’agua ta frío ('the water is cold')

The use of neuter is rather complex in Asturian; anyway neuters nouns have no plural (except in some cases, where they are taken metaphorically, in which case the lose this gender, such as in les agües tán fríes (Waters are cold) or when you want to concretise an abstract noun:

Tien el pelo roxo ('his hair is red') is neuter but:
Tien un pelu roxu ('he’s got a red hair') is masculine. By the way, look at the change of ending in the noun). Neuters nouns refer to abstract, collective and uncountable nouns.
Ego Civis Macedono-Romanicvs Svm!

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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby Levike » 2013-10-06, 19:32

Eu n-am zis cu niciun cuvânt că neutrul limbii asturiene e mai apropiată de latină.

Am zis că asturiana are un neutru adevărat, adică un neutru cu unele caracteristici proprii.

Pe când în română neutrul este doar un amalgam.
Nu are nicio terminație specifică.
Singurul lucru caracteristic este că pluralul -uri este mai frecvent în neutru decât în celelalte.
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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby Zarcu Mihai » 2013-10-06, 19:58

Levente wrote:Eu n-am zis cu niciun cuvânt că neutrul limbii asturiene e mai apropiată de latină.

Am zis că asturiana are un neutru adevărat, adică un neutru cu unele caracteristici proprii.

Pe când în română neutrul este doar un amalgam.
Nu are nicio terminație specifică.
Singurul lucru caracteristic este că pluralul -uri este mai frecvent în neutru decât în celelalte.

Terminatia -uri vine din latina tarzie -ora care era neutru pana s'a convertit in masculin in latina medievala.Totusi asta nu inseamna ca Romana are un neutru mai indepartat de latina,ba chiar unul mai apropriat atata timp cat -uri vine din genul latin neutru!
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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby Bernard » 2013-10-12, 11:24

Equidem gaudeo quod profusa haec disputatio cum extra fori Latini cancellos egressa sit suo nunc loco legi potest.

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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby Zarcu Mihai » 2013-10-14, 8:11

Just to make you understand,maybe other Romance languages are conservative but at the same time are more similar to each other than to their Ancestor:The good Old Latin.Romanian does not follow the same road,because it was isolate from the other ones.Romanian proves that there are many traces from Latin that are productive in Romanian At Vocabulary or Grammar level.The latin vocabulary remained Archaic unlike other Romances languages that were actually imposed by Catholic Church.
And actually they changed their vocabulary all the time.And i am actually sad about these loans from French actually it didnt make Romanian more latin,but less in terms of vocabulary.This proves that textes from the 15,16'th centuries from Romania shows more latin heritage than today.
Still Romanian remains Conservative with Sardinian ,Romansch and other isolate Dialects.
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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby Lietmotiv » 2013-10-14, 14:11

Massimiliano B wrote:
JackFrost wrote:
Massimiliano B wrote:Italian and Romanian are really very close each other.

Of course. They're Romance languages.


I mean they are closer than Italian and Spanish.



Personally, I understand (written) Italian mostly due to French, and to a lesser extenct due to Romanian. Spoken Italian I cannot understand, only random words.

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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby Zarcu Mihai » 2013-10-14, 16:57

AndreiB wrote:
Massimiliano B wrote:
JackFrost wrote:
Massimiliano B wrote:Italian and Romanian are really very close each other.

Of course. They're Romance languages.


I mean they are closer than Italian and Spanish.



Personally, I understand (written) Italian mostly due to French, and to a lesser extenct due to Romanian. Spoken Italian I cannot understand, only random words.

Actually Romanian phonology is similar to italian.
Disregarding the la-spezia-rimini line plurals there are aslo the che Chi ce cu ge gi ghe ghi sounds and the sounds 'x' 'gl' 'cl' and the other ones with c and g from latin words let's NOT forget the diftong creations like 'ie' it.miele ro.miere
Ego Civis Macedono-Romanicvs Svm!

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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby Lietmotiv » 2013-10-14, 17:56

Zarcu Mihai wrote:
AndreiB wrote:
Massimiliano B wrote:
JackFrost wrote:
Massimiliano B wrote:Italian and Romanian are really very close each other.

Of course. They're Romance languages.


I mean they are closer than Italian and Spanish.



Personally, I understand (written) Italian mostly due to French, and to a lesser extenct due to Romanian. Spoken Italian I cannot understand, only random words.

Actually Romanian phonology is similar to italian.
Disregarding the la-spezia-rimini line plurals there are aslo the che Chi ce cu ge gi ghe ghi sounds and the sounds 'x' 'gl' 'cl' and the other ones with c and g from latin words let's NOT forget the diftong creations like 'ie' it.miele ro.miere



My point is that in terms of vocabulary French helps me a bit more than Romanian to understand Italian(written); of course, knowing 2 Romance languages heps understanding the third. Maybe I cannot understand spoken Italian due to insufficient exposure to the language, and the Romanian I speak it's not quite "Standard" . But I agree, both Romanian and Italian sound clear and beautiful.

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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby Zarcu Mihai » 2013-10-15, 19:46

I totally i agree with you!Since French and Italian were not in the Peripheral zone,and they borrowed words with different semantic sense than Romanian and Spanish.
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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby Zarcu Mihai » 2013-10-16, 14:37

Do you really think that Romanian sounds beautiful as the same level as Italian does ?:D
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Re: Romanian, the closest Neo-Latin (Romance language) to Latin

Postby Homine.Sardu » 2017-10-16, 21:51

Among the Romance languages Sardinian (Logudorese-Nuorese) is surely the closest to vulgar Latin, due to its geographical isolation.
Sardinian retains a lot of archaic vocabulary and some classical pronounces that has disappeared in the other Romance languages, the verbal conjugations are very regular and nearly identical to Latin. Not to mention that the order of the various elements in the phrases which is very archaic compared to the other Romance languages.

Sardinian :

Verbs :

(to go) - ando, àndas, àndat, andàmus, andàdes, àndan
(to be) - so, ses, est, sèmus, sètis, sun
(to see) - bido, bìdes, bìdet, bidìmus, bidìdes, bìden
(to steal) - furo, fùras, fùrat, furàmus, furàdes, fùran
(to fall, to crumble) - rùo, rùes, rùet, ruìmus, ruìdes, rùen
(to descend, to fall) - falo, fàlas, fàlat, falàmus, falàdes, fàlan


Some archaic vocabulary example :

Latin - Sardinian

Domus - Domo (house)
Janua - Janna (door)
Cito - Chito (soon, early)
Cras - Cras (tomorrow)
Heri - Hèris, d'Hèris (yesterday)
Hodie - Hoe (today)
Hoc Annus - Hoc Annu (this year)
Etiam - Eja (yes)
Immo - Emmo (yes)
Tandem - Tando (then)
Magnus - Mannu (big)
Minorem - Minore (little)
Hominem - Homine (man)
Foemina - Femina (woman)
Pisinnus - Pitzinnu (child)


Classical pronounces of C = K and G = GH

Latin - Sardinian

Coelum - Chelu (sky)
Coena - Chena (dinner)
Cera - Chera (wax)
Cito - Chito (soon, early)
Piscem - Pische (fish)


Lingere - Lìnghere (to lick)
Tingere - Tìnghere (to paint)
Mulgere - Mùlghere (to milk)
Adstringere - Astringhere (to tighten)


in Logudorese sometimes the K sound turns to G, while in Nuorese remains K, and it's totally absent in Campidanese where it's replaced by a sound identical to the French "J", but written with a "X"


Latin - Logudorese - Nuorese - Campidanese

Lucem - Lughe - Luche - Luxi (light)
Vocem - Boghe - Boche - Boxi (voice)
Pacem - Paghe - Pache - Paxi (peace)
Pulicem - Pùlighe - Pùliche - Pùlixi (flea)


Bye!


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