Romanian with an Italic substratum.

User avatar
langmon
Posts: 607
Joined: 2018-10-23, 17:51
Gender: male

Re: Romanian with an Italic substratum.

Postby langmon » 2018-11-25, 6:26

Zarcu Mihai wrote:They just need to agree that not only Romanian has Toponyms of foreign origin or Suffixes/Preffixes in their latin words.But aslo France has got alot of Germanic Toponyms or Portugal and Spain which they got alot of Arabic Toponyms same with their Vocabulary,the number of Slavic words in Romanian is as same as Arabic Vocabulary in Portuguese or even greater in Spanish or Germanic Vocab in French (French aslo has borrowed from sorrounding Germanic Countries,just like Romanian did with their Slavic Neighbours)!


Did the Slavic Neighbours also borrow from Romanian specifically? And if yes, do you all know any examples?

This question is about RO only. Not asking about the usual borrowings from Latin and its other daugthers :).
- Any two-digit no. of lang. learned in rotation
- Botany (EN, DE, ...)


SomehowGeekyPolyglot = SomewhatGeekyPolyglot = SGP

User avatar
linguoboy
Posts: 23139
Joined: 2009-08-25, 15:11
Real Name: Da
Location: Chicago
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Romanian with an Italic substratum.

Postby linguoboy » 2018-11-25, 14:24

Palatschinke is ultimately from Latin placenta via Romanian plăcintă (which now refers to a different sort of pastry). The word has been borrowed into Albanian and Hungarian in addition to all Slavic languages of the Balkans.
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

User avatar
langmon
Posts: 607
Joined: 2018-10-23, 17:51
Gender: male

Re: Romanian with an Italic substratum.

Postby langmon » 2018-11-25, 14:38

linguoboy wrote:Palatschinke is ultimately from Latin placenta via Romanian plăcintă (which now refers to a different sort of pastry). The word has been borrowed into Albanian and Hungarian in addition to all Slavic languages of the Balkans.


If this is like this, then it is a Grand Surprise to me.
Always have been considering it Genuine Austrian since my childhood.
- Any two-digit no. of lang. learned in rotation
- Botany (EN, DE, ...)


SomehowGeekyPolyglot = SomewhatGeekyPolyglot = SGP

User avatar
linguoboy
Posts: 23139
Joined: 2009-08-25, 15:11
Real Name: Da
Location: Chicago
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Romanian with an Italic substratum.

Postby linguoboy » 2018-11-25, 17:37

I'm not sure how you're using "genuine Austrian" here. That word wears its non-Germanic origins like a samite robe with sleeves of damask.
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

User avatar
langmon
Posts: 607
Joined: 2018-10-23, 17:51
Gender: male

Re: Romanian with an Italic substratum.

Postby langmon » 2018-11-25, 17:46

linguoboy wrote:I'm not sure how you're using "genuine Austrian" here. That word wears its non-Germanic origins like a samite robe with sleeves of damask.

This may be the case. However, I personally perceived it as Original Austrian Slang :). I grew up there after all. Short list of some words: Topfengolatsche, Zwetschgenröster, Palatschinke, Kaischerschmarrn, Kasnudeln, ...

Not too obvious for everyone to spot the linguistical difference.
- Any two-digit no. of lang. learned in rotation
- Botany (EN, DE, ...)


SomehowGeekyPolyglot = SomewhatGeekyPolyglot = SGP

User avatar
linguoboy
Posts: 23139
Joined: 2009-08-25, 15:11
Real Name: Da
Location: Chicago
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Romanian with an Italic substratum.

Postby linguoboy » 2018-11-26, 17:32

SomehowGeekyPolyglot wrote:
linguoboy wrote:I'm not sure how you're using "genuine Austrian" here. That word wears its non-Germanic origins like a samite robe with sleeves of damask.

This may be the case. However, I personally perceived it as Original Austrian Slang :). I grew up there after all. Short list of some words: Topfengolatsche, Zwetschgenröster, Palatschinke, Kaischerschmarrn, Kasnudeln, ...

Not too obvious for everyone to spot the linguistical difference.

Native Germanic words have initial stress unless there is an unstressed prefix (e.g. be-, ge-, ver-) and they almost never have a in unstressed position. Plus (as the awkward spelling makes kind of obvious), /ʧ/ is not a native German phoneme.

Palatschinke combines all three non-native features in one word, plus it has the characteristic Slavic diminutive suffix -ke/-ka. It's the most obvious borrowing in the batch. Golatsche has only two of these features (non-initial stress, /ʧ/) and Zwetschge (from Latin damascena) only one--which isn't too surprising, given that it's an older borrowing and so has been more assimilated to German phonology. (Kaiser is even older and is phonologically indistinguishable from inherited Germanic vocabulary.)

I understand that these patterns might not be obvious to most speakers, but I would think they would pick up on the fact that most German words are analysable in terms of shorter morphemes. Röster is clearly related to rösten. Topfen forms a score of other compound words. But there is no verb *kaisen to explain Kaiser and there's no way to break down Golatsche or Palatschinke into meaningful elements.
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

User avatar
linguoboy
Posts: 23139
Joined: 2009-08-25, 15:11
Real Name: Da
Location: Chicago
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Romanian with an Italic substratum.

Postby linguoboy » 2018-11-26, 17:53

But you asked about Slavic words of Romanian origin. There aren't very many because Romanian has never been a prestige language for Slavic-speakers. The Romanian-speakers they encountred tended to be shepherds so most of the borrowings relate to sheepherding. Here are some examples from Slovak:

bača "chief shepherd" (< baci "idem.")
bryndza "sheep's milk cheese" (< brânză "cheese")
koliba "chalet" (< colibă "hut")
valach "assistant shepherd" (< vlah "Romanian-speaker")
žinčica "byproduct of making bryndza (< jîntița "idem.")
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

User avatar
langmon
Posts: 607
Joined: 2018-10-23, 17:51
Gender: male

Re: Romanian with an Italic substratum.

Postby langmon » 2018-11-26, 19:07

linguoboy wrote:[...] Plus (as the awkward spelling makes kind of obvious), /ʧ/ is not a native German phoneme.

I do not recall any native Standard German words starting with /ʧ/ (if we exclude sort-of-loanwords like "Tschechien"). "Tschick" (cigarette) is a dialect word that comes to my mind (but possibly of Romance origin...)

linguoboy wrote:I understand that these patterns might not be obvious to most speakers, but I would think they would pick up on the fact that most German words are analysable in terms of shorter morphemes. Röster is clearly related to rösten. Topfen forms a score of other compound words. But there is no verb *kaisen to explain Kaiser and there's no way to break down Golatsche or Palatschinke into meaningful elements.


Very clear when it is being pointed out. But seems that I never thought of it before.
- Any two-digit no. of lang. learned in rotation
- Botany (EN, DE, ...)


SomehowGeekyPolyglot = SomewhatGeekyPolyglot = SGP


Return to “Romanian (Română)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest