Romanian = Hardest Latin language

Zarcu Mihai
Posts: 106
Joined: 2013-09-29, 9:55
Real Name: Zarcu Mihai
Gender: male
Location: Constanta
Country: RO Romania (România)
Contact:

Re: Romanian = Hardest Latin language

Postby Zarcu Mihai » 2013-10-08, 16:49

mōdgethanc wrote:
How can you say that it's conservative when more than 10% of the vocab is Slavic.
Just 10%? Looking at samples of it, I'd think it were more like 30-40%.

There's no point arguing with someone who is emotionally attached to an issue. He's already made up his mind and is refusing to hear evidence to the contrary; this is called confirmation bias.
linguoboy wrote:So what's the linguistic equivalent of the Jamaican national bobsleigh team?
Jamaican Creole, duh.

Tell me please,have you studied Romanian language?
Who told you that our Vocabulary is made of 30-40% Slavic words?
Okay dude you're canadian i am romanian of Aromanian origin i've studied that language!
I can guarantee that romanian is really Close o latin if romanian had 30-40% words of slavic origin i Could have learned till Now bulgarian Serbian russian ukrainian ! But i dont understand one thing from what does one bulgarian pr Serbian say it is totala gibberish even an Serbian said that he does bot understand romanian at all!he said that romanian sounds like italian with southern accent...there is a thing go study our language or o check vulgar latin vocabulary OR check out Reichenau Glossary and you will see!!!okay i've got issues because i sathings that you do NOT belive but i am 15 and i study latin and other romance!i just wanna show you the truth,in fact you don't know Anything about Romanian.andyes vocabulary is 10-15% slavic NOT more BUT NOT less!:)
Last edited by Zarcu Mihai on 2013-10-08, 17:02, edited 1 time in total.
Ego Civis Macedono-Romanicvs Svm!

User avatar
Levike
Posts: 6103
Joined: 2013-04-22, 19:26
Real Name: Levi
Gender: male
Location: Budapest
Country: HU Hungary (Magyarország)

Re: Romanian = Hardest Latin language

Postby Levike » 2013-10-08, 17:00

Zarcu Mihai wrote:Tell me please,have you studied Romanian language?
Who told you that our Vocabulary is made of 30-40% Slavic words?

It was just his first impression.
And to be honest Romanian does sometimes look/sound a bit Slavic.
Nem egy nap alatt épült Buda vára.

Zarcu Mihai
Posts: 106
Joined: 2013-09-29, 9:55
Real Name: Zarcu Mihai
Gender: male
Location: Constanta
Country: RO Romania (România)
Contact:

Re: Romanian = Hardest Latin language

Postby Zarcu Mihai » 2013-10-08, 17:07

Levente wrote:
Zarcu Mihai wrote:Tell me please,have you studied Romanian language?
Who told you that our Vocabulary is made of 30-40% Slavic words?

It was just his first impression.
And to be honest Romanian does sometimes look/sound a bit Slavic.

Just because of the IE sound in eu este e ea el but i can guarantee you that ie sound in ego did occured in all romance languages(yo,io,ieu,jeu,jo...) !same happened in aragonese e/este has ie sound do you think that this is cause of slavic influence or romance caracteristic?because most of the linguistics from romania that the sound is of uncertain or substrata origin.
Anyway the phonology and grammar are 99% on the base on latin.
Last edited by Zarcu Mihai on 2013-10-08, 17:15, edited 1 time in total.
Ego Civis Macedono-Romanicvs Svm!

User avatar
Psi-Lord
Posts: 10087
Joined: 2002-08-18, 7:02
Real Name: Marcel Q.
Gender: male
Location: Cândido Mota
Country: BR Brazil (Brasil)
Contact:

Re: Romanian = Hardest Latin language

Postby Psi-Lord » 2013-10-08, 17:14

Zarcu Mihai wrote:[…] but i can guarantee you that ie sound in ego did occured in all [bold my own] romance languages(yo,io,ieu,jeu,jo...)

Portuguese eu can be left out, though, at least on what concerns the standard(s) – it’s a plain /ew/.
português do Brasil (pt-BR)British English (en-GB) galego (gl) português (pt) •• العربية (ar) български (bg) polski (pl) ••• Deutsch (de) español rioplatense (es-AR) français (fr) magyar (hu) հայերեն (hy) italiano (it) 日本語 (ja) lingua Latina (la) ภาษาไทย (th) Türkçe (tr) 普通話 (zh-CN)

User avatar
Levike
Posts: 6103
Joined: 2013-04-22, 19:26
Real Name: Levi
Gender: male
Location: Budapest
Country: HU Hungary (Magyarország)

Re: Romanian = Hardest Latin language

Postby Levike » 2013-10-08, 17:15

It was not because of the unwritten i.

These are the things why I said it sounds a bit Slavic:
- The sound ă
- More consonant-friendly
- The way you pronounce i at the end of words, like in mergi

I've been speaking this language for a very long time
but whenever I hear to Bulgarian, it sounds the same to me.
Nem egy nap alatt épült Buda vára.

Zarcu Mihai
Posts: 106
Joined: 2013-09-29, 9:55
Real Name: Zarcu Mihai
Gender: male
Location: Constanta
Country: RO Romania (România)
Contact:

Re: Romanian = Hardest Latin language

Postby Zarcu Mihai » 2013-10-08, 17:17

Psi-Lord wrote:
Zarcu Mihai wrote:[…] but i can guarantee you that ie sound in ego did occured in all [bold my own] romance languages(yo,io,ieu,jeu,jo...)

Portuguese eu can be left out, though, at least on what concerns the standard(s) – it’s a plain /ew/.

I did NOT included Portuguese nor Galician :)
Tho forget to say almost all since Galician-portuguese did no occured like that !
Last edited by Zarcu Mihai on 2013-10-08, 17:44, edited 1 time in total.
Ego Civis Macedono-Romanicvs Svm!

Zarcu Mihai
Posts: 106
Joined: 2013-09-29, 9:55
Real Name: Zarcu Mihai
Gender: male
Location: Constanta
Country: RO Romania (România)
Contact:

Re: Romanian = Hardest Latin language

Postby Zarcu Mihai » 2013-10-08, 17:20

Levente wrote:It was not because of the unwritten i.

These are the things why I said it sounds a bit Slavic:
- The sound ă
- More consonant-friendly
- The way you pronounce i at the end of words, like in mergi

I've been speaking this language for a very long time
but whenever I hear to Bulgarian, it sounds the same to me.

No ă is of balkanic origin.I don't see Any ă in polish czech slovenian slovakian belorussian Ukrainian russian...Yes Bulgarian sounds i a way similar because of balkanic influence but still bulgarian has gotten the most balkan influence and romanian along with greek the least.Aslo sonor forget that bulgarian has borrowed from latin aswell lat.mensa bg.masa lat.videre bg.vid
Ego Civis Macedono-Romanicvs Svm!

User avatar
Psi-Lord
Posts: 10087
Joined: 2002-08-18, 7:02
Real Name: Marcel Q.
Gender: male
Location: Cândido Mota
Country: BR Brazil (Brasil)
Contact:

Re: Romanian = Hardest Latin language

Postby Psi-Lord » 2013-10-08, 18:17

Zarcu Mihai wrote:
Psi-Lord wrote:
Zarcu Mihai wrote:[…] but i can guarantee you that ie sound in ego did occured in all [bold my own] romance languages(yo,io,ieu,jeu,jo...)

Portuguese eu can be left out, though, at least on what concerns the standard(s) – it’s a plain /ew/.

I did NOT included Portuguese nor Galician :)

Since you had said ‘all Romance languages’, that was worth pointing out. :) I’ve just seen you realised what I meant, though, while I was composing this message.

Anyway, just going back to this a bit, I was just having a look at Heinrich Lausberg’s Romanische Sprachwissenschaft, and his reasoning behind the evolution of Latin ⟨ego⟩ wouldn’t really place those all together.

At first, he places central Sardinian dialects apart by saying they kept it as [ˈɛɣo], while the other Sardinian dialects and the rest of the Romance languages reduced it to ⟨eo⟩ pretty early, and this was the base on which the pronoun evolved. That’s when Lausberg splits the languages in two major groups.

The first group is composed of the languages that preserved the old stress and vowel quality – Romenian, Sardinian, Provençal, and (Galician-)Portuguese. In this group, he does point out the Romanian and Old Provençal posterior diphthongisation, but he gives those as separate processes triggered by different factors.

The second group is composed of the languages in which the vowel quality shifted from ⟨e⟩ to ⟨i⟩, turning the base form into ⟨io⟩, which was then maintained in Italian, while a subgroup of languages later shifted stress as well, yielding /jo/; these would be Spanish, Catalan and French.

Granted, I was disappointed with the Romanian shift as given in the book, exactly because Lausberg just does not go into any details whatsoever – he just says Romanian acquired an initial /j/ in that position, just like certain Dalmatian and southern Italian dialects; however, since you say some Romanian linguists take this as a feature of unknown origin, that might account for it. For the Old Provençal shift, however, he does go into more details, and says that ⟨e⟩ tended towards diphthongisation whenever followed by ⟨u⟩, no matter the position.
português do Brasil (pt-BR)British English (en-GB) galego (gl) português (pt) •• العربية (ar) български (bg) polski (pl) ••• Deutsch (de) español rioplatense (es-AR) français (fr) magyar (hu) հայերեն (hy) italiano (it) 日本語 (ja) lingua Latina (la) ภาษาไทย (th) Türkçe (tr) 普通話 (zh-CN)

User avatar
IpseDixit
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 8988
Joined: 2013-05-06, 21:06
Gender: male
Location: Bologna / Milan / Florence
Country: IT Italy (Italia)

Re: Romanian = Hardest Latin language

Postby IpseDixit » 2013-10-08, 18:28

Zarcu Mihai wrote:Yet there is a mistake ladin does NOT descends from gallo-liberian but it is an isolate or mostly Common gallo-romance related to french occitan or north italian dialects


What's the mistake? Levente said Romance/Latin languages with no further distinctions. And Ladin is a Romance/Latin language.

Zarcu Mihai
Posts: 106
Joined: 2013-09-29, 9:55
Real Name: Zarcu Mihai
Gender: male
Location: Constanta
Country: RO Romania (România)
Contact:

Re: Romanian = Hardest Latin language

Postby Zarcu Mihai » 2013-10-08, 19:14

Psi-Lord wrote:
Zarcu Mihai wrote:
Psi-Lord wrote:
Zarcu Mihai wrote:[…] but i can guarantee you that ie sound in ego did occured in all [bold my own] romance languages(yo,io,ieu,jeu,jo...)

Portuguese eu can be left out, though, at least on what concerns the standard(s) – it’s a plain /ew/.

I did NOT included Portuguese nor Galician :)

Since you had said ‘all Romance languages’, that was worth pointing out. :) I’ve just seen you realised what I meant, though, while I was composing this message.

Anyway, just going back to this a bit, I was just having a look at Heinrich Lausberg’s Romanische Sprachwissenschaft, and his reasoning behind the evolution of Latin ⟨ego⟩ wouldn’t really place those all together.

At first, he places central Sardinian dialects apart by saying they kept it as [ˈɛɣo], while the other Sardinian dialects and the rest of the Romance languages reduced it to ⟨eo⟩ pretty early, and this was the base on which the pronoun evolved. That’s when Lausberg splits the languages in two major groups.

The first group is composed of the languages that preserved the old stress and vowel quality – Romenian, Sardinian, Provençal, and (Galician-)Portuguese. In this group, he does point out the Romanian and Old Provençal posterior diphthongisation, but he gives those as separate processes triggered by different factors.

The second group is composed of the languages in which the vowel quality shifted from ⟨e⟩ to ⟨i⟩, turning the base form into ⟨io⟩, which was then maintained in Italian, while a subgroup of languages later shifted stress as well, yielding /jo/; these would be Spanish, Catalan and French.

Granted, I was disappointed with the Romanian shift as given in the book, exactly because Lausberg just does not go into any details whatsoever – he just says Romanian acquired an initial /j/ in that position, just like certain Dalmatian and southern Italian dialects; however, since you say some Romanian linguists take this as a feature of unknown origin, that might account for it. For the Old Provençal shift, however, he does go into more details, and says that ⟨e⟩ tended towards diphthongisation whenever followed by ⟨u⟩, no matter the position.

[list=][/list]
Yes that's true but which Sardinian dialect has preserved EGO i've seen in Logudoresu DEO while in Campianesu is IO and Sasaresu EIU.And please it is RomAnian not "Romenian" i hate when this word is written/spelled wrong.:(
Ego Civis Macedono-Romanicvs Svm!

Zarcu Mihai
Posts: 106
Joined: 2013-09-29, 9:55
Real Name: Zarcu Mihai
Gender: male
Location: Constanta
Country: RO Romania (România)
Contact:

Re: Romanian = Hardest Latin language

Postby Zarcu Mihai » 2013-10-08, 19:18

IpseDixit wrote:
Zarcu Mihai wrote:Yet there is a mistake ladin does NOT descends from gallo-liberian but it is an isolate or mostly Common gallo-romance related to french occitan or north italian dialects


What's the mistake? Levente said Romance/Latin languages with no further distinctions. And Ladin is a Romance/Latin language.

On Wikipedia.ro on the tree it shows that ladin descends from gallo-liberian which is wrong ladin was always a rhaeto-romance language which it is sonetimes classifiaction as isolate branch or as gallo-Italian.
Ego Civis Macedono-Romanicvs Svm!

User avatar
Levike
Posts: 6103
Joined: 2013-04-22, 19:26
Real Name: Levi
Gender: male
Location: Budapest
Country: HU Hungary (Magyarország)

Re: Romanian = Hardest Latin language

Postby Levike » 2013-10-08, 19:26

Zarcu Mihai wrote:And please it is RomAnian not "Romenian" i hate when this word is written/spelled wrong.:(
And I also dislike when someone writes sentences like "I did not included".
You've got an interesting grammar there Mihai. :D
Nem egy nap alatt épült Buda vára.

User avatar
linguoboy
Posts: 20130
Joined: 2009-08-25, 15:11
Real Name: Da
Location: Chicago
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Romanian = Hardest Latin language

Postby linguoboy » 2013-10-08, 19:37

Zarcu Mihai wrote:And please it is RomAnian not "Romenian" i hate when this word is written/spelled wrong.:(

In that case, perhaps you could start writing "Iberian" instead of "Liberian"? "Iberia" is a name for the peninsula currently divided between Spain, Portugal, and Gibraltar. "Liberia" is a country in West Africa. "Gallo-Liberian" sounds like the name of a Liberian Kreyol dialect spoken in France.
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

User avatar
Massimiliano B
Posts: 1592
Joined: 2009-03-31, 10:01
Real Name: Massimiliano Bavieri
Gender: male
Location: Lucca
Country: IT Italy (Italia)

Re: Romanian = Hardest Latin language

Postby Massimiliano B » 2013-10-08, 19:54

Zarcu Mihai wrote:
Massimiliano B wrote:I really love the Ladin language. I have to study it!

Do you like rhaeto-Romansh ?:)


Yes, I do. Especially Ladin.
Dette er nemlig Formelen, som beskriver Selvets Tilstand, naar Fortvivlelsen ganske er udryddet: i at forholde sig til sig selv, og i at ville være sig selv grunder Selvet gjennemsigtigt i den Magt, som satte det. (This is namely the formula, that describes the condition of the self, when despair is completely eradicated: by relating itself to itself, and by willing to be itself, the self is grounded transparently in the power which constituted it) (Søren Kierkegaard, The sickness unto death)

User avatar
Psi-Lord
Posts: 10087
Joined: 2002-08-18, 7:02
Real Name: Marcel Q.
Gender: male
Location: Cândido Mota
Country: BR Brazil (Brasil)
Contact:

Re: Romanian = Hardest Latin language

Postby Psi-Lord » 2013-10-08, 20:10

Zarcu Mihai wrote:And please it is RomAnian not "Romenian" i hate when this word is written/spelled wrong.:(

I was going to say it was an honest misspelling, since it appeared just once in my post (and I’m pretty sure there was some interference going on, since I was checking the information in the book, which is in Portuguese, hence romeno / Romênia), but it seems Levente and linguoboy got that sort of covered after all. :P
português do Brasil (pt-BR)British English (en-GB) galego (gl) português (pt) •• العربية (ar) български (bg) polski (pl) ••• Deutsch (de) español rioplatense (es-AR) français (fr) magyar (hu) հայերեն (hy) italiano (it) 日本語 (ja) lingua Latina (la) ภาษาไทย (th) Türkçe (tr) 普通話 (zh-CN)

User avatar
Itikar
Posts: 900
Joined: 2012-10-10, 19:56
Gender: male
Country: IT Italy (Italia)

Re: Romanian = Hardest Latin language

Postby Itikar » 2013-10-08, 22:21

Zarcu Mihai wrote:Yes that's true but which Sardinian dialect has preserved EGO i've seen in Logudoresu DEO while in Campianesu is IO and Sasaresu EIU.

It is "preserved" in Nuorese. :)
Fletto i muscoli e sono nel vuoto!
All corrections are welcome and appreciated.

Zarcu Mihai
Posts: 106
Joined: 2013-09-29, 9:55
Real Name: Zarcu Mihai
Gender: male
Location: Constanta
Country: RO Romania (România)
Contact:

Re: Romanian = Hardest Latin language

Postby Zarcu Mihai » 2013-10-09, 3:37

Levente wrote:
Zarcu Mihai wrote:And please it is RomAnian not "Romenian" i hate when this word is written/spelled wrong.:(
And I also dislike when someone writes sentences like "I did not included".
You've got an interesting grammar there Mihai. :D

Dude my iPhone "auto-corrects" me...but i try NOT to make mistakes...my phone wont let me write a right sentece...
Ego Civis Macedono-Romanicvs Svm!

Zarcu Mihai
Posts: 106
Joined: 2013-09-29, 9:55
Real Name: Zarcu Mihai
Gender: male
Location: Constanta
Country: RO Romania (România)
Contact:

Re: Romanian = Hardest Latin language

Postby Zarcu Mihai » 2013-10-09, 3:40

linguoboy wrote:
Zarcu Mihai wrote:And please it is RomAnian not "Romenian" i hate when this word is written/spelled wrong.:(

In that case, perhaps you could start writing "Iberian" instead of "Liberian"? "Iberia" is a name for the peninsula currently divided between Spain, Portugal, and Gibraltar. "Liberia" is a country in West Africa. "Gallo-Liberian" sounds like the name of a Liberian Kreyol dialect spoken in France.

Hahahahahaha....sorry about that xD that was really my fault...
Ego Civis Macedono-Romanicvs Svm!

Zarcu Mihai
Posts: 106
Joined: 2013-09-29, 9:55
Real Name: Zarcu Mihai
Gender: male
Location: Constanta
Country: RO Romania (România)
Contact:

Re: Romanian = Hardest Latin language

Postby Zarcu Mihai » 2013-10-09, 3:44

Massimiliano B wrote:
Zarcu Mihai wrote:
Massimiliano B wrote:I really love the Ladin language. I have to study it!

Do you like rhaeto-Romansh ?:)


Yes, I do. Especially Ladin.

:D :D :D I wish there were a source where i can Learn Romasch.
Ego Civis Macedono-Romanicvs Svm!

User avatar
Saim
Posts: 4301
Joined: 2011-01-22, 5:44
Location: Novi Sad
Country: RS Serbia (Србија)

Re: Romanian = Hardest Latin language

Postby Saim » 2013-10-09, 8:14

Zarcu, why are you so intent on minimizing Slavic and Balkan influence in Romanian? For me as someone with an advanced knowledge of two Romance languages and one Slavic one, that's what makes Romanian fascinating to me. From the outside it it seems like this is just for nationalist reasons - proving national purity and belonging to "Western" civilisation, as if that was something desirable.


Return to “Romanian (Română)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest