Moderator:Naava
Äverjeŋkyli. wrote:I don't know how to construct such an equivalent structure to the Continious Tenses in English. So... How to construct that grammatical structure just to say "Learning Finnish"?
Äverjeŋkyli. wrote:And another doubt: is it "suomen kieli" or "suomenkieli"?
I mean, is it written jointed or separate?
Vlürch wrote:
Äverjeŋkyli. wrote:How can you express the Indirect Object of a sentence? For example, trying to say: "I'll read her a book". I already know how to say "Luen kirjan...", but I don't know how to use the indirect object, does it have an specific case declension?
Äverjeŋkyli. wrote:And another thing, how could I say something like "I would like him to teach me Finnish"? I mean, how would I say the structure "would like"?
Äverjeŋkyli. wrote:Should the pronoun "joka" be used in this sentence?
Vlürch wrote:The reason for this is the ambiguity of the verb oppia; both the past and present are the same (opin in the first person singular), so using it in the present tense without any disambiguating words just isn't done.
(minä) yritän oppia suomea = I'm trying to learn Finnish
However, that might be considered incorrect in formal speech/writing; I'm honestly not entirely sure
you can use itse-opiskelu (self-study) to specify that you're learning it by yourself rather than in a formal class or something.
At the same time, at least to me [suomen opettelu] sounds like it has an implication that it isn't necessarily 100% serious dedicated learning.
Note that while you'll likely encounter something like this, using the partitive:
suomea on vaikeaa/helppoa/hauskaa oppia
...it's technically incorrect. Pretty much everyone (including native speakers) will slip up once in a while with this, though, so don't worry about it too much.
And another doubt: is it "suomen kieli" or "suomenkieli"?
I mean, is it written jointed or separate?
They're written separately.
You can use the third-person inanimate singular pronoun se as a pseudo-definite article, eg. se kirja jonka annoin sinulle ("the book that I gave you"), but there's nothing like that for indefinite things. - - you can say luen hänelle jonkun kirjan (I'll read her some book")
Haluaisin, että hän opettaa minulle suomea.
Naava wrote:Itseopiskelu.*
Naava wrote:Suomea on vaikea/vaikeaa ; helppo/helppoa ; hauska/hauskaa oppia are all correct.
Naava wrote:And these are spoken language, so if you want to learn standard Finnish, you can't use these.
Vlürch wrote:Äverjeŋkyli. wrote:How can you express the Indirect Object of a sentence? For example, trying to say: "I'll read her a book". I already know how to say "Luen kirjan...", but I don't know how to use the indirect object, does it have an specific case declension?
Finnish generally doesn't differentiate between indefinite and definite at all. You can use the third-person inanimate singular pronoun se as a pseudo-definite article, eg. se kirja jonka annoin sinulle ("the book that I gave you"), but there's nothing like that for indefinite things. Well, you can say luen hänelle yhden kirjan, but that's "I'll read her one book" and would generally be interpreted as meaning "I'll read her one particular book", so still more definite than indefinite; you can say luen hänelle jonkun kirjan (I'll read her some book"), but that's more like "I don't know what book I'll read her, but I'll read her some book".
Naava wrote:Vlürch wrote:Note that while you'll likely encounter something like this, using the partitive:
suomea on vaikeaa/helppoa/hauskaa oppia
...it's technically incorrect. Pretty much everyone (including native speakers) will slip up once in a while with this, though, so don't worry about it too much.
You're technically incorrect. Suomea on vaikea/vaikeaa ; helppo/helppoa ; hauska/hauskaa oppia are all correct.
Vlürch wrote:Naava wrote:Itseopiskelu.*
AAAAAAAAAARRRGGHHH, this is so embarrassing. My brain farted because I was writing the sentence in English, and in English there's a hyphen...
Naava wrote:Suomea on vaikea/vaikeaa ; helppo/helppoa ; hauska/hauskaa oppia are all correct.
Huh... I remember being taught in school that the partitive is wrong, but maybe I remember wrong or it was because our teacher was like 70 or something so she taught an old rule.
Well, whatever the case, I probably shouldn't try to help people with Finnish since I end up spouting bullshit half of the time.
Äverjeŋkyli. wrote:What I meant is: how to express the Indirect Object in Finnish? I realised about something in your examples: you set the Indirect Object "her" (from "luen hänelle jonkun kirjan") in the Allative case "hänelle". Is that the way the indirect object is expressed in Finnish?
So, if you are able to set the attribute of the verb "olla" in nominative and also in partitive, and both of them are correct... Which of them should I use? Is there any change in the meaning of the attribute if you use nominative rather than using partitive or the other way round?
So, for really specific vocabulary, which translator should I use (because Google translator is really useless (at least, for Finnish)(or a paska, if you prefer))?
Naava wrote:Äverjeŋkyli. wrote:What I meant is: how to express the Indirect Object in Finnish? I realised about something in your examples: you set the Indirect Object "her" (from "luen hänelle jonkun kirjan") in the Allative case "hänelle". Is that the way the indirect object is expressed in Finnish?
I don't think I've ever heard anyone mentioning indirect objects in Finnish, but I found this:
The category of indirect object is not often used in the description of Finnish, instances resembling indirect objects being mainly classified as adverbials on the basis of their inflection. These adverbials are often marked wit the allative and mostly follow the verb and object. The case ending remains the same when adverbial is moved in front of the object.
Myin kirjan sinulle.
sell-impf-1sg book-acc you-all
'I sold a book to you.'
Myin sinulle kirjan.
sell-impf-1sg you-all book-acc
'I sold you a book.'
Naava wrote:Äverjeŋkyli. wrote:So, for really specific vocabulary, which translator should I use (because Google translator is really useless (at least, for Finnish)(or a p*sk* (sorry for this)))?
Do you need a bilingual dictionary (and if so, which language?) or would Finnish-only dictionaries be okay with you?
Äverjeŋkyli. wrote:
While trying to use the Direct Object, you use the accusative if the action is done in the future and the partitive for past and present, or the other way round?
Third: even more doubts: how is the Relative Superlative (e.g. Current Superlative: "Very Beautiful"=kaunein. Relative Superlative: "The most beautiful"= ?) expressed in Finnish?
And are finnish adjectives pluralised?
Last doubt: is there another way to say "very ..." in Finnish rather than using the Superlative (-in)? I read something about that, basically that you can use the adjective "hyvin" instead but I'm not sure.
Mats Norberg wrote:Me kiipesimme korkeimmalle vuorelle. (We climbed the highest mountain)
Annoin lahjan kauneimmalle tytölle. (I gave a gift to the most beautiful girl)
Luokan vahvin poika on Mikko. (The class' strongest boy is Mikko)
Kaupungin rikkaimmalla miehellä kaupungista on iso omakotitalo.
(The richest man in the city has a big villa)
Mats Norberg wrote:For "very" you can use hyvin, kovin or erittäin, the latter meaning extremely is the strongest of them I think.
Äverjeŋkyli. wrote:I think a Spanish-Finnish dictionary would be great.
Äverjeŋkyli. wrote:First: Kiitos vastauksestasi!
(Yes, I know it's probably wrong).
Naava wrote:Spoken language has more of these but I'm not sure if you Äverjeŋkyli are learning spoken or written Finnish.
Naava wrote:Äverjeŋkyli. wrote:First: Kiitos vastauksestasi!
(Yes, I know it's probably wrong).
Not bad! You need to use elative here. The stem to which you add the elative is vastaukse-. Some nouns that end with an -s have -kse- in its place in the stem. For example,
kaulus - kauluksesta (collar)
punnus - punnuksesta (scales weight)
jalas - jalaksesta (runner of a sleigh)
And finally: ole hyvä!
Äverjeŋkyli. wrote: P.S.: Does the word "conlangi" (from English "conlang") exist in Finnish?
Mats Norberg wrote:The best way is undoubtably to get a speaking partner and try to have a conversation. I think words you learn that way stick better in memory.
Mats Norberg wrote:Listen to pod casts and teaching videos if can find such ones is also a good idea.
Äverjeŋkyli. wrote:Another question: in Finnish, the sound for the R sounds a bit strange to me. While watching videos, I noticed that Finnish R is a bit like an Spanish Rr, a long vibrant phoneme, but shorter. It's because firstly I pronounced "koira" as "koida", and now, like "koirra", and it's a bit difficult to articulate that sound. How could I do?
(Well this is only if someone knows phonetics, never mind).
SomehowGeekyPolyglot wrote:Also I have read that kiitoksia is a bit more informal.
SomehowGeekyPolyglot wrote:I was was wondering if in Finnish, one simply would combine "just any" noun with another one, as long as it logically make sense. Or do you Fins restrict yourselves to some particular matters, like only doing it when it is about foods and, for example, technology, but not doing it when it is about something else, like botany and arts?
Vlürch wrote:Eh, the most common informal way to say kiitos is kiitti, but that's used ironically a lot and the most common way to thank someone is to just say "kiitos". You can't really say kiitoksia on its own (well, you can, but at least to me it sounds pretty weird). What you'd normally say is something like paljon kiitoksia (many thanks), but you generally wouldn't say that informally.
Vlürch wrote:You can combine any nouns (and more) to make compounds, but there's kind of a difference between those that are standard and well-defined and those that aren't. But in theory, you can have infinitely long compounds.
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