Could this work?

Moderator: Naava

User avatar
Dingbats
Posts: 3497
Joined: 2005-01-22, 10:17
Gender: male
Location: Lund (född i Stockholm)
Country: SE Sweden (Sverige)
Contact:

Could this work?

Postby Dingbats » 2005-08-08, 11:34

I'm making a song out of the Finnish text on the body lotion bottles (well not really bottles but I can't fins the word right now...). I'm wondering if this division and stressing of the words would be OK. Unfortunately I have to break up some diphthongs. ´ indicates stress, and when on a diphthong it means that it is stressed and broken up. ^ on a diphthong means that it's stressed but not broken up. Anyway, here's what I got:

Sísältää tárkasti válikoítuja
âineita jóiden tíedetää´n
ólevan héllävaráisia
íhoa kó-ohtaan.

Does this sound at least OK, it doesn't have to be perfect but does it sound OK to you native Finnish speakers?
I also wonder if I have to be very careful pronouncing the length of the vowels and consonants correctly when singing. Do I?

Thanks for all your help. :)

User avatar
Liisi
Posts: 1370
Joined: 2004-06-07, 9:08
Gender: female
Country: FI Finland (Suomi)

Postby Liisi » 2005-08-08, 19:10

The text sounds ok to me. Only two words I'd write differently: ihoa kohtaan :arrow: iholle, aineita :arrow: ainesosia. The latter is not necessary to change, but that's the word usually used in such texts. And I added one comma. If you say "ihoa kohtaan", it sounds quite funny, as if the skin has to be treated gently or else it starts crying :).

But your question about stressing is a bit confusing, because in Finnish there really is no option where the stress goes, it's always on the first syllable. Except for yhdyssanat (sorry, I don't remember this word in English) there is one stress for each part.

So it'd be like this (stress in bold letters):

Sisältää tarkasti valikoituja ainesosia (or: aineita), joiden tiedetään olevan hellävaraisia iholle.

I also wonder if I have to be very careful pronouncing the length of the vowels and consonants correctly when singing. Do I?


Well, yes, you always have to be careful with that :). But maybe the lenght of vowels isn't so noticeable in songs, if you sing like this: "Siiiiisääääältääääää..." ;)
I appreciate corrections to my mistakes in any language.

User avatar
Dingbats
Posts: 3497
Joined: 2005-01-22, 10:17
Gender: male
Location: Lund (född i Stockholm)
Country: SE Sweden (Sverige)
Contact:

Postby Dingbats » 2005-08-12, 11:26

Thanks a lot! :D I think I'll have to stick to the original words though, aineita and ihoa kohtaan, because else it won't fit in the song.

I actually have two verses "written" now, and I'd appreciate it a lot if you could take some time and just check it works. (I use the same diacritics as in the first post.)

Míeto púhdistáva géeli
joka sóveltuu érityisésti (should the secondary stress fall on the yi diphthong?)
rasvaisélle íholle já
ongelmâihollé

K^äytä áamuin ílloin sâippuan
síjasta váahdota kévyestí
ja pése kásvot ja múut
ongelmáaluéet

And one last question: Are Finnish < i> and <e> always [ i] and [e], never [ɪ] and [ɛ]?

User avatar
Liisi
Posts: 1370
Joined: 2004-06-07, 9:08
Gender: female
Country: FI Finland (Suomi)

Postby Liisi » 2005-08-12, 17:06

Everything seems ok here. But, as I said, the stress is always on the first syllable of a word. If I read the words as you've written them, it's just incorrect Finnish (even in a song).

As for the division, the words saippuan and sijasta belong together and the next word (vaahdota) begins a new sentence, so I wouldn't divide those two on different rows. But since this is a song, well... it all depends on your style :).

Dingbats wrote:érityisésti (should the secondary stress fall on the yi diphthong?)


There is no secondary stress here, because erityisesti is just one word.

Dingbats wrote:And one last question: Are Finnish < i> and <e> always [ i] and [e], never [ɪ] and [ɛ]?


I'm sorry but I can't see those phonetic letters correctly (I see just squares). And to be honest, I know nothing about Finnish phonetics. Maybe Varislintu can answer?
I appreciate corrections to my mistakes in any language.

User avatar
Liisi
Posts: 1370
Joined: 2004-06-07, 9:08
Gender: female
Country: FI Finland (Suomi)

Postby Liisi » 2005-08-12, 18:04

And, I forgot to say, there should be a hyphen in the last word you have there: ongelma-alueet.
I appreciate corrections to my mistakes in any language.

User avatar
Varislintu
Posts: 15330
Joined: 2004-02-09, 13:32
Real Name: M.
Gender: female
Location: Helsinki
Country: FI Finland (Suomi)

Postby Varislintu » 2005-08-13, 8:03

Dingbats wrote:And one last question: Are Finnish < i> and <e> always [ i] and [e], never [ɪ] and [ɛ]?


I can see the phonetic letters, but I don't know what they mean, sorry :oops: .

But I can tell you that Finnish vowels are (as far as I know) always the same, no matter what the word or stress is; they never change.
Det finns ingen
tröst. Därför
behöver du den inte
(Gösta Ågren)

User avatar
CoBB
Posts: 5265
Joined: 2004-08-26, 8:34
Real Name: PG
Gender: male
Location: An island...
Country: HU Hungary (Magyarország)
Contact:

Postby CoBB » 2005-08-13, 8:37

Maybe I'm getting something wrong, but shouldn't you try to fit the song to the lyrics if the latter is already fixed? After all, you don't have much freedom in choosing stress and rhythm if you want to keep a natural flow. The only thing I can think of is lengthening short vowels. Maybe you can also put stress on the last syllable if you want to emphasise it for some reason, like 'Olen tyhmä' or something, but that's acceptable only in certain contexts.
Tanulni, tanulni, tanulni!

A pő, ha engemély, kimár / De mindegegy, ha vildagár... / ...mert engemély mindet bagul, / Mint vélgaban a bégahur!...

User avatar
Anchjo
Posts: 113
Joined: 2004-06-17, 19:19
Real Name: Antti Lev
Gender: male
Location: Lapinlahti
Country: FI Finland (Suomi)
Contact:

Postby Anchjo » 2005-08-13, 9:27

Dingbats wrote:And one last question: Are Finnish < i> and <e> always [ i] and [e], never [ɪ] and [ɛ]?


Yes, always [i] and [e], I'm quite sure about it.
Please help me to improve my language skills and PM me if you encounter any spelling mistakes in my posts. Thank you!

User avatar
Dingbats
Posts: 3497
Joined: 2005-01-22, 10:17
Gender: male
Location: Lund (född i Stockholm)
Country: SE Sweden (Sverige)
Contact:

Postby Dingbats » 2005-08-13, 9:45

As for the division, the words saippuan and sijasta belong together and the next word (vaahdota) begins a new sentence, so I wouldn't divide those two on different rows. But since this is a song, well... it all depends on your style :).

OK, well I think I'll have to leave them as they are.

Dingbats wrote:érityisésti (should the secondary stress fall on the yi diphthong?)

There is no secondary stress here, because erityisesti is just one word.

Are you sure? Because it looks like you said there should be secondary stress in words like "ainesosia" and "hellävaraisia", as you put them.

And, I forgot to say, there should be a hyphen in the last word you have there: ongelma-alueet.

Why?

Yes, always [i] and [e], I'm quite sure about it.

Thanks. :)

User avatar
Varislintu
Posts: 15330
Joined: 2004-02-09, 13:32
Real Name: M.
Gender: female
Location: Helsinki
Country: FI Finland (Suomi)

Postby Varislintu » 2005-08-13, 14:02

Dingbats wrote:
Dingbats wrote:
Dingbats wrote:érityisésti (should the secondary stress fall on the yi diphthong?)

There is no secondary stress here, because erityisesti is just one word.

Are you sure? Because it looks like you said there should be secondary stress in words like "ainesosia" and "hellävaraisia", as you put them.


Because the words you mention are two words put together to make one. You should stress the first syllable of those words, even though they are now written together without an empty space between. But a Finnish word that is not made up of several words put together, should be stressed only on the first syllable (unless special attention is meant, like CoBB said).

Dingbats wrote:
And, I forgot to say, there should be a hyphen in the last word you have there: ongelma-alueet.

Why?


In Finnish, hyphens are rare. But if you have a compound word (is that the term?) whose first word ends with the same vowel that the next word begins with, there is ALWAYS a hyphen. For example:

Osa-aineet
Linja-auto
Iso-olkainen

Otherwise, the vowels would look like long vowels, and pronounced wrong.
Det finns ingen
tröst. Därför
behöver du den inte
(Gösta Ågren)

User avatar
Dingbats
Posts: 3497
Joined: 2005-01-22, 10:17
Gender: male
Location: Lund (född i Stockholm)
Country: SE Sweden (Sverige)
Contact:

Postby Dingbats » 2005-08-14, 9:53

OK, Varislintu, thanks! :)
I think I'll have to pronounce some words wrong, unfortunately... otherwise it just won't fit in the song. Well, I don't have any friends who know Finnish who will listen to it anyway, so maybe it doesn't matter very much. :P

User avatar
Varislintu
Posts: 15330
Joined: 2004-02-09, 13:32
Real Name: M.
Gender: female
Location: Helsinki
Country: FI Finland (Suomi)

Postby Varislintu » 2005-08-14, 15:02

When art is in question, there is much freedom, of course :D ! Many Finnish songs also stress wrong.
Det finns ingen
tröst. Därför
behöver du den inte
(Gösta Ågren)

User avatar
Dingbats
Posts: 3497
Joined: 2005-01-22, 10:17
Gender: male
Location: Lund (född i Stockholm)
Country: SE Sweden (Sverige)
Contact:

Postby Dingbats » 2005-08-15, 9:18

Oh, that was good to hear! :)

dariuscuts
Posts: 6
Joined: 2005-09-01, 23:22
Gender: female
Location: Ankara
Country: TR Turkey (Türkiye)
Contact:

Postby dariuscuts » 2005-09-01, 23:46

i don't mean to hijack the topic but what are those accents over the letters?
âineita jóiden tíedetää´n

what do they mean? i have never seen something like that before :D

User avatar
Varislintu
Posts: 15330
Joined: 2004-02-09, 13:32
Real Name: M.
Gender: female
Location: Helsinki
Country: FI Finland (Suomi)

Postby Varislintu » 2005-09-02, 7:42

Dingbats is only implicating where the stress of the word falls according to his song :).
Det finns ingen
tröst. Därför
behöver du den inte
(Gösta Ågren)


Return to “Finnish (Suomi)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest