Help!

Moderator: Naava

Lauritita
Posts: 8
Joined: 2005-05-10, 16:38
Real Name: Laura Gálvez Macías
Gender: female
Location: Plasencia
Country: ES Spain (España)

Help!

Postby Lauritita » 2005-05-11, 16:11

Hello!
I'm a new member in this site and I want to learn finnish. I love Finland! But I can't speak in that language.
If someone is interesting in teach me Finnish I will be very happy!!
Lot of kisses
Laura,

(Sorry for my English ) :oops:

User avatar
Varislintu
Posts: 15324
Joined: 2004-02-09, 13:32
Real Name: M.
Gender: female
Location: Helsinki
Country: FI Finland (Suomi)

Postby Varislintu » 2005-05-12, 8:00

Hi Lauritita! Welcome to UniLang!

Right now there aren't any active teachers in Finnish around here (maybe more in the chat?), but there are a couple of natives and other learners who know stuff, so if you have any questions to ask about Finnish grammar or anything, just post them here somewhere and I'm sure someone will gladly answer you with an explanation :)!

There are also language resources elsewhere on UniLang, the excersise center and story center, for example. There are a few Finnish things in there, too.
Det finns ingen
tröst. Därför
behöver du den inte
(Gösta Ågren)

User avatar
keme
Posts: 291
Joined: 2003-12-29, 3:41
Real Name: Kjell E. Medhaug
Gender: male
Location: EIGERSUND
Country: NO Norway (Norge)

Postby keme » 2005-06-28, 18:48

I am interested in learning Finnish too, and right now the "help" topic looks like a good place to enter. (You can find some resources through the Unilang main page, by the way...)

There was a course where I work, led by a finnish teacher. Alas, she doesn't seem to be a Finnish teacher...

I asked about the distinction between "-lainen" and "-ksi" ("soumalainen" and "suomeksi"), but did not get wiser. Now I see that in the VSL group, the Finnish entry is called "Finnish (Suomi)". Unless someone confused it, i am confused!

Will someone explain? (Preferably in English, as my Finnish is not yet usable.)

User avatar
CoBB
Posts: 5265
Joined: 2004-08-26, 8:34
Real Name: PG
Gender: male
Location: An island...
Country: HU Hungary (Magyarország)
Contact:

Postby CoBB » 2005-06-28, 18:55

The affix -lainen/-läinen basically turns a place into an adjective: 'Suomi' ('Finland') -> 'suomalainen' ('Finnish'), 'Helsinki' -> 'helsinkiläinen' (something like 'from Helsinki'). The -ksi ending denotes the translative case (sort of 'as a sg' or 'into sg'), e. g. 'suomeksi' means 'in Finnish'.

Okay, that's a bit crude for an explanation, but I'm sure the natives will do much better. :)
Tanulni, tanulni, tanulni!

A pő, ha engemély, kimár / De mindegegy, ha vildagár... / ...mert engemély mindet bagul, / Mint vélgaban a bégahur!...

User avatar
Varislintu
Posts: 15324
Joined: 2004-02-09, 13:32
Real Name: M.
Gender: female
Location: Helsinki
Country: FI Finland (Suomi)

Postby Varislintu » 2005-06-29, 7:44

Nope, not much to add to that CoBB :) !

Maybe this list will help:

Suomi - Finland
suomi - Finnish (the language)
suomen kieli - Finnish (the language) (lit. the language of Finnish)
suomenkielinen - something in the language of Finnish (a text, f ex) OR a person who speaks Finnish
suomalainen - a Finn OR a thing of Finnish origin
suomen kielellä - in the language of Finnish
suomeksi - in the language of Finnish OR (change) into the language of Finnish
Suomeksi - (change) into Finland (the country)

Suomessa suomalaiset puhuvat suomen kieltä, he ovat siis suomenkielisiä ja tulevat toimeen suomeksi.

In Finland Finns speak Finnish, they are therefore Finnish speakers, and get along in Finnish.


(BTW, I now managed to repeat the word suomi so often in my head, that for the first time in my life I forgot what it means :lol: . What a weird word it is :P !)
Det finns ingen
tröst. Därför
behöver du den inte
(Gösta Ågren)

User avatar
勺园之鬼
Posts: 890
Joined: 2003-05-29, 5:16
Real Name: 君君
Gender: male
Location: :o)
Country: KP North Korea (조선)

Postby 勺园之鬼 » 2005-06-29, 9:30

I am very curious about Finnish, especially its grammar and its vocabulary. Unfortunately I haven't got time to spend on it, as I already made other choices. I hope you will not misjudge and look down on my interest. This is also easier to ask here than looking for explanations elsewhere. ;)


In this sentence:

"Suomessa suomalaiset puhuvat suomen kieltä, he ovat siis suomenkielisiä ja tulevat toimeen suomeksi."

(does "Suomessa" mean "in Finland"? it seems so with the context)

If at the end, "suomeksi" is replaced by "Suomeksi", will it mean "and get along in Finland"? If so, is the difference only based on the context?

Also about these:

suomenkielinen - something in the language of Finnish (a text, f ex) OR a person who speaks Finnish
suomalainen - a Finn OR a thing of Finnish origin

I saw that adding the suffix "-lainen" to a place name denotes the origin of something. Does "-nen" mean the same? Can it stand alone? How do you say person?

Sorry for the trouble, and don't lose too much time on this post... Yes/no answers and a few words will be enough. :D
四海为家

User avatar
Varislintu
Posts: 15324
Joined: 2004-02-09, 13:32
Real Name: M.
Gender: female
Location: Helsinki
Country: FI Finland (Suomi)

Postby Varislintu » 2005-06-29, 10:17

JunMing wrote: I am very curious about Finnish, especially its grammar and its vocabulary. Unfortunately I haven't got time to spend on it, as I already made other choices. I hope you will not misjudge and look down on my interest. This is also easier to ask here than looking for explanations elsewhere. ;)


No problem, I'll try to explain!

JunMing wrote:In this sentence:

"Suomessa suomalaiset puhuvat suomen kieltä, he ovat siis suomenkielisiä ja tulevat toimeen suomeksi."

(does "Suomessa" mean "in Finland"? it seems so with the context)


Yes, it does. Suomi --> Suome|n (genitive)--> Suome|ssa (inessive).

JunMing wrote:If at the end, "suomeksi" is replaced by "Suomeksi", will it mean "and get along in Finland"? If so, is the difference only based on the context?


No, because as you can see in the list above, only the word "suomeksi" has two meanings, one of them being "in Finnish". The word "Suomeksi" can only mean "(change) into Finland".

JunMing wrote:Also about these:

suomenkielinen - something in the language of Finnish (a text, f ex) OR a person who speaks Finnish
suomalainen - a Finn OR a thing of Finnish origin

I saw that adding the suffix "-lainen" to a place name denotes the origin of something. Does "-nen" mean the same? Can it stand alone? How do you say person?


"Nen" can't stand alone. It's a suffix, which has many meanings in Finnish, the most common being that it makes the word an adjective. "-lainen" is actually derived from "laji" (kind, species), to which -nen is added. "-lainen" therefore translates as "of kind x" or "of origin x".

JunMing wrote:Sorry for the trouble, and don't lose too much time on this post... Yes/no answers and a few words will be enough. :D


You have to accept complete sentenses this time :) .
Det finns ingen
tröst. Därför
behöver du den inte
(Gösta Ågren)

User avatar
keme
Posts: 291
Joined: 2003-12-29, 3:41
Real Name: Kjell E. Medhaug
Gender: male
Location: EIGERSUND
Country: NO Norway (Norge)

Postby keme » 2005-06-29, 13:07

CoBB wrote:The affix -lainen/-läinen basically turns a place into an adjective: 'Suomi' ('Finland') -> 'suomalainen' ('Finnish'), 'Helsinki' -> 'helsinkiläinen' (something like 'from Helsinki'). The -ksi ending denotes the translative case (sort of 'as a sg' or 'into sg'), e. g. 'suomeksi' means 'in Finnish'.
Excellent. That put things into place. Thank you.

Thanks to Varislintu too for the elaboration.

About the "-nen" question from JunMing: I don't think he meant litterally "alone", but rather if it is a suffix with a meaning of its own. (If I misread one of you, I apologise!)
Varislintu wrote: "-lainen" is actually derived from "laji" (kind, species), to which -nen is added.
Why is "-nen" added? Is it to distinguish a derived adjective from a compound noun, or is it just phonetic, for the speech to flow easier?

User avatar
勺园之鬼
Posts: 890
Joined: 2003-05-29, 5:16
Real Name: 君君
Gender: male
Location: :o)
Country: KP North Korea (조선)

Postby 勺园之鬼 » 2005-06-29, 18:11

Varislintu wrote:
JunMing wrote: I am very curious about Finnish, especially its grammar and its vocabulary. Unfortunately I haven't got time to spend on it, as I already made other choices. I hope you will not misjudge and look down on my interest. This is also easier to ask here than looking for explanations elsewhere. ;)


No problem, I'll try to explain!

JunMing wrote:In this sentence:

"Suomessa suomalaiset puhuvat suomen kieltä, he ovat siis suomenkielisiä ja tulevat toimeen suomeksi."

(does "Suomessa" mean "in Finland"? it seems so with the context)


Yes, it does. Suomi --> Suome|n (genitive)--> Suome|ssa (inessive).

JunMing wrote:If at the end, "suomeksi" is replaced by "Suomeksi", will it mean "and get along in Finland"? If so, is the difference only based on the context?


No, because as you can see in the list above, only the word "suomeksi" has two meanings, one of them being "in Finnish". The word "Suomeksi" can only mean "(change) into Finland".

JunMing wrote:Also about these:

suomenkielinen - something in the language of Finnish (a text, f ex) OR a person who speaks Finnish
suomalainen - a Finn OR a thing of Finnish origin

I saw that adding the suffix "-lainen" to a place name denotes the origin of something. Does "-nen" mean the same? Can it stand alone? How do you say person?


"Nen" can't stand alone. It's a suffix, which has many meanings in Finnish, the most common being that it makes the word an adjective. "-lainen" is actually derived from "laji" (kind, species), to which -nen is added. "-lainen" therefore translates as "of kind x" or "of origin x".


Thanks a lot for all your explanations! :D

I am curious about a few more things though...

You said "Suomessa" is inessive. Because of my ignorance, I never saw this word (;)). I checked on wikipedia and the explanation is probably interesting enough to be shared:

Wikipedia wrote:Inessive case is a locative grammatical case. This case carries the basic meaning of "in": for example, "in the house" is "talo·ssa" in Finnish, "maja·s" in Estonian, and "ház·ban" in Hungarian.

In Finnish the inessive case is typically formed by adding "ssa/ssä". Estonian adds "s" to the genitive stem. In Hungarian, the suffix "ban/ben" is most commonly used for inessive case, although many others, such as -on, -en, -ön and others are also used, especially with cities.

In the Finnish language, the inessive case is considered the first of the six locative cases, which correspond to locational prepositions in English. The remaining five cases are:

* Elative case ("out of")
* Illative case ("into")
* Adessive case ("on")
* Ablative case ("from off of")
* Allative case ("onto")

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inessive_case

Varislintu wrote:
JunMing wrote:Sorry for the trouble, and don't lose too much time on this post... Yes/no answers and a few words will be enough. :D


You have to accept complete sentenses this time :) .


I said that because I didn't want to annoy you or anyone else... ;)

keme wrote:About the "-nen" question from JunMing: I don't think he meant litterally "alone", but rather if it is a suffix with a meaning of its own. (If I misread one of you, I apologise!)


I actually meant both. ;) At the same time whether is has a meaning of its own, and if it is a standalone word (which might be of a longer form). Now I know the answer to both answers is no.

To Varislintu: I remember I read somewhere else (don't ask me where!) that you study (or studied) some Japanese, and that you are surprised by the several similitudes it shares with your native language. Could you give more details please?

Thanks again! :D
四海为家

User avatar
Varislintu
Posts: 15324
Joined: 2004-02-09, 13:32
Real Name: M.
Gender: female
Location: Helsinki
Country: FI Finland (Suomi)

Postby Varislintu » 2005-06-30, 8:37

keme wrote:Why is "-nen" added? Is it to distinguish a derived adjective from a compound noun, or is it just phonetic, for the speech to flow easier?


Yes, it's to distinguish an adjective. "Laji" in itself does not describe. The -nen is needed to make it an adjective type of word:

Viha (=anger)
Vihainen (=angry)

The difference between "-lainen" and just "-nen" is that "-lainen" also contains meaning of origin, and therefore is used for people:

Helsinki (=Helsinki, the capital of Finland)
helsinkinen (="Helsinki-ish")
helsinkiläinen (=Helsinkian, a person from Helsinki)

JunMing wrote:
keme wrote:About the "-nen" question from JunMing: I don't think he meant litterally "alone", but rather if it is a suffix with a meaning of its own. (If I misread one of you, I apologise!)


I actually meant both. ;) At the same time whether is has a meaning of its own, and if it is a standalone word (which might be of a longer form). Now I know the answer to both answers is no.


I just want to make sure I explained clearly:

As a suffix, the "-nen" can stand alone, as it does in the above word "vihainen".

JunMing wrote:To Varislintu: I remember I read somewhere else (don't ask me where!) that you study (or studied) some Japanese, and that you are surprised by the several similitudes it shares with your native language. Could you give more details please?

Thanks again! :D


Well, I started studying Japanese with the understanding that it was going to be something extremely alien, with very little grammatical similarities to anything I know. But this image must have been put into my head by English speakers, because Japanese can be said to be more like Finnish than English. This doesn't mean, of course, that Finnish and Japanese are very much alike, it's just in comparison to English. Here's what makes me think this way (and I apologise for my bad linguistic vocab):

- Pronounciation is on many parts much like Finnish
- Particles in Japanese come after the word they point to, just like suffixes do in Finnish (in Finnish there are suffixes instead of particles).
- The Japanese "ka" that marks a question, is similar to the "-ko/-kö" suffix in Finnish
- The Japanese posessive particle "no" is similar to the genitive suffix "-n" in Finnish
- I've always imagined that the Japanese "yo" works a bit like the Finnish suffix "-pa/-pä". I haven't had anyone to confirm this with, though.
- Japanese seems to have quite a few expressions, where repetition of the word is used, as does Finnish (J:"mada mada"/ F:"vähä vähältä").
Det finns ingen
tröst. Därför
behöver du den inte
(Gösta Ågren)


Return to “Finnish (Suomi)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest