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Posted: 2008-07-15, 22:24
by Latis
Added a new genitive page with some info on it. Had to leave for work and cut it short though.

Posted: 2008-07-16, 1:29
by Latis
Added new accusative page with a few examples on it. I need a Finn to check and change if they like, as this case was the most troublesome to me :P

Posted: 2008-07-16, 5:23
by Latis
Finished up most of the genitive. We still need to add some examples for the genitive plural, as it's very confusing to people (and to me sometimes).

Varislintu, I hope you don't mind, but I took what you typed in the possesesive suffix page and put it in the genitive one. If you want, you can remove it and place a link back to that page, but I think it should be in the genitive page >.> There needs to be at least some sort of link between the two.

Anyways I'm tired and was going to finish up moving your examples of auto into a chart on the genitive page, but I need sleep. :goodnight:

btw need a finn to check the genitive page over, I was typoing like crazy tonight.

Posted: 2008-07-16, 7:55
by Varislintu
Latis wrote:Added new accusative page with a few examples on it. I need a Finn to check and change if they like, as this case was the most troublesome to me :P


Just one d missing and I also added some 'a's next to some 'the's, because they were both possible translations. Great job, by the way :praise:.

Posted: 2008-07-16, 8:06
by Varislintu
Latis wrote:btw need a finn to check the genitive page over, I was typoing like crazy tonight.


I found and corrected a misplaced ä :P. Would it be beneficial, in the Genetive Plural chart, to somehow indicate when a word is in partitive singular and when in partitive plural? Right now you have them both in the "Partitive Sng/Pl" column. Pehaps in brackets after the word, like: "kiel/tä (sng)"?

And is 'nainen' supposed to come twice with its two alternative inflections or was that unintentional?

Posted: 2008-07-16, 16:28
by Latis
Varislintu wrote:
Latis wrote:btw need a finn to check the genitive page over, I was typoing like crazy tonight.


I found and corrected a misplaced ä :P. Would it be beneficial, in the Genetive Plural chart, to somehow indicate when a word is in partitive singular and when in partitive plural? Right now you have them both in the "Partitive Sng/Pl" column. Pehaps in brackets after the word, like: "kiel/tä (sng)"?

And is 'nainen' supposed to come twice with its two alternative inflections or was that unintentional?


I was switching a lot between FI and EN keyboard layouts because I can't find the / key in FI, and typoing like mad. Thanks for looking over it :D

I put nainen up their twice, one indicating the partitive plural and the partitive singular. I wanted to show that both can be used, but -ten endings seem to be favored by my finnish friends, even though they use both a lot.

I was making that chart so fast to forget new people need to know what's partitive singular and partitive plural...and now I think about it, how will they know each word's partitive? :o

Posted: 2008-07-16, 17:28
by Virankannos
Just to inform, I corrected an a that was supposed to be an ä and added a little more archaic form for the genitive plural of "käsi" in the Genitive article.

Latis wrote:I was switching a lot between FI and EN keyboard layouts because I can't find the / key in FI, and typoing like mad.
In case you haven't found it already, to type the slash "/" with FI keyboard: hold Shift and press 7

Speaking about genitive plural, I remember that it is actually the case, in which there exists most alternative forms. For example, for the word omena (apple) the genitive plural can be: omenoiden, omenoitten, omenojen, omenien, omenain :D . The first one is probably the most common and the last is quite rare and even archaic.

Posted: 2008-07-16, 18:09
by Varislintu
Virankannos wrote:Speaking about genitive plural, I remember that it is actually the case, in which there exists most alternative forms. For example, for the word omena (apple) the genitive plural can be: omenoiden, omenoitten, omenojen, omenien, omenain :D . The first one is probably the most common and the last is quite rare and even archaic.


Indeed, yes. And it's the one I accidentally correct most often in learners' posts here, because they use a form that I don't, and I'm not focusing enough to remember that there are several possibilities :lol:.

Like varisten/variksien, omenien/omenojen, lasten/lapsien...

Posted: 2008-07-16, 19:05
by Latis
Virankannos wrote:Just to inform, I corrected an a that was supposed to be an ä and added a little more archaic form for the genitive plural of "käsi" in the Genitive article.

Latis wrote:I was switching a lot between FI and EN keyboard layouts because I can't find the / key in FI, and typoing like mad.
In case you haven't found it already, to type the slash "/" with FI keyboard: hold Shift and press 7

Speaking about genitive plural, I remember that it is actually the case, in which there exists most alternative forms. For example, for the word omena (apple) the genitive plural can be: omenoiden, omenoitten, omenojen, omenien, omenain :D . The first one is probably the most common and the last is quite rare and even archaic.


Never seen some of those before >.>

So...I guess we should rewrite the chart then for genitive plural?

I added two examples of each ending down below the chart.

Posted: 2008-07-16, 20:28
by Virankannos
Totuu/den nimessä, antaudu!
In truths' name, surrender! (i.e. in the name of truth, surrender!)
:) Hate to break it to you, Latis, but totuuden is the genitive singular of totuus. The genitive plural would be totuuksien, but it can't be used in plural in this sentence.

Posted: 2008-07-16, 20:34
by Varislintu
On the genitive page, this sentence:

Sun päässäs ovat kuulokeet
There are headphones on your head

[s]should really be:

Kuulokkeet on sun päässäs[/s]

:)

EDIT: Wait, no :lol:. Headphones wouldn't really be päässä. One should say:

Kuulokkeet on sun korvilla/korvissa.

The case depending on if they're good old fashioned earphones or those that you stick into the ears.

Perhaps you should ditch this example altogether, it opens too many questions :lol: :P.

Posted: 2008-07-16, 20:43
by Latis
Varislintu wrote:On the genitive page, this sentence:

Sun päässäs ovat kuulokeet
There are headphones on your head

[s]should really be:

Kuulokkeet on sun päässäs[/s]

:)

EDIT: Wait, no :lol:. Headphones wouldn't really be päässä. One should say:

Kuulokkeet on sun korvilla/korvissa.

The case depending on if they're good old fashioned earphones or those that you stick into the ears.

Perhaps you should ditch this example altogether, it opens too many questions :lol: :P.


I like questions :P but okay, I think you may be right. I had a finnish friend look at it and he didn't like it either.

Virankannos wrote:
Totuu/den nimessä, antaudu!
In truths' name, surrender! (i.e. in the name of truth, surrender!)
:) Hate to break it to you, Latis, but totuuden is the genitive singular of totuus. The genitive plural would be totuuksien, but it can't be used in plural in this sentence.


No need to loath breaking it to me. I get confused sometimes :P thanks for pointing that out.

Posted: 2008-07-17, 2:07
by Latis
I removed the colloquial sentence "Sun päässäs ovat kuulokeet" as it doesn't fit too well.

I removed my "Totuu/den nimessä, antaudu!" example in the genitive page.

I removed the examples column in the alphabet page and linked to Stacy's article on the UniLang resource wiki.

Posted: 2008-07-17, 19:57
by Varislintu
Looks good :).

I thought I spotted a missing 'that' or something like that when I was first reading the pages, but now I can't find it... Perhaps you fixed it already. (EDIT: Okay, found it and fixed it now ;).)

Nice to see the wiki expanding. Oh, and if you want to change or add to the content of the partitive page, feel free to. I just dotted something down when I was making it, it's far from complete.

Posted: 2008-07-17, 20:18
by Varislintu
Oh, on the genitive page:

-------
Talo/j/en sisällä on lämmin
The houses insides are warm (i.e. it's warm inside the houses)
-------

It's literally "The houses' inside at is warm". Nitpicking, but since you put a literal-ish translation... A word such as "insides" isn't actually mentioned in Finnish there (insides = sisustat).

And 'houses' is missing an apostrophe ;).

Posted: 2008-07-17, 20:38
by Latis
I changed some examples around for helping people understand better and remove my own finnmistakes.

I added examples to the personal pronouns in the accusative page.

Yeah, about the literal translations...you're right, that is the direct translation. I just tried to make it sound more natural while also showing that something is possessing something else. With the houses example, it was hard to show possession in English.

I had the same problem with the children's teeth example as well.

Posted: 2008-07-17, 20:45
by Varislintu
lyösi should be löysi :)

Posted: 2008-07-17, 20:52
by Latis
Aivan >.>

Posted: 2008-07-18, 16:29
by Steisi
Hi again, I was away in the middle of nowhere helping to build a summer cabin and wow, have you done a lot of work in the meantime while I was sunning myself and scratching my mosquito bites. :shock:

Link my article wherever you want, especially since I don't know how to do it :mrgreen: Well done!

Posted: 2008-07-19, 17:20
by Steisi
I updated the 'disappearing d' page in the wiki, as promised :yep: