Phonetic pronunciations needed, please

daisy
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Phonetic pronunciations needed, please

Postby daisy » 2005-08-20, 15:10

Hi,

I would like to know, please, how to pronounce the following words, which as you may know, have to do with the celebration of Christmas:

Svaty Mikalàs= I think the first word is SVOO-tee...?
Cert
Stedry Vecer
Jaslickare
oblatky

(By phonetic I mean--for instance, the word Hello is pronounced HELL-oh. I would like to know the phonetic spelling and the proper syllable stress, if it's not too much trouble.)

If someone could please help me, I'd be grateful.

Thanks! :D

daisy

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Mara
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Postby Mara » 2005-08-21, 23:09

Uh, Daisy, I think "phonetic" pronunciation as you want it can be written by a native English speaker only. Although I have a pretty good command of English and am a native Czech speaker, I would never be able to write an "English phonetic" pronunciation. Czech is actually very easy to pronounce because, unlike in English, every vowel and every consonant can be pronounced only one way. If you want to learn how to pronounce those Czech words you mention, go to UniLang Wiki where you can find the Czech pronunciation guide.

Also, the words you mentioned are not exactly correct. The correct spelling is:
Svatý Mikuláš = Saint Nicolas
čert = devil
Štědrý večer = Christmas Eve
jesličky = Nativity
oplatky = wafers, or waffles

The first two words (Svatý Mikuláš and čert) have nothing to do with Christmas. They are connected to another holiday, on December 5, when Mikuláš and čert give small presents to children. It's probably associated with a Christian saint St. Nicolas, whose birthday (?) is on December 6.

Let me know if I can help you more.
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Qaanaaq
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Postby Qaanaaq » 2005-08-22, 15:09

not a Czech expert here, but it would go like this:

Svatý Mikuláš = SVAH-tee: MEE-koo-la:sh
čert = CHERT
Štědrý večer = SHTYED-ree: VEH-cher
jesličky = YES-leech-kee
oplatky = O-platt-kee

corrections are the most welcome

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Mara
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Postby Mara » 2005-08-22, 22:02

Qaanaaq wrote:not a Czech expert here, but it would go like this:

Svatý Mikuláš = SVAH-tee: MEE-koo-la:sh
čert = CHERT
Štědrý večer = SHTYED-ree: VEH-cher
jesličky = YES-leech-kee
oplatky = O-platt-kee

corrections are the most welcome


OK, I wanted to avoid this "phonetization" but you are (basically) right. :wink: I just have no idea how anyone can pronounce anything reading this mess... :roll: Come on, Czech pronunciation is not difficult at all, especially when there is no "ř" in any of these words.
I am always sorry when any language is lost, because languages are the pedigree of nations.

-- Samuel Johnson, in: The Journal of a Tour to the Hebrides by James Boswell (1785)

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Qaanaaq
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Postby Qaanaaq » 2005-08-22, 22:48

Mara wrote:
Qaanaaq wrote:not a Czech expert here, but it would go like this:

Svatý Mikuláš = SVAH-tee: MEE-koo-la:sh
čert = CHERT
Štědrý večer = SHTYED-ree: VEH-cher
jesličky = YES-leech-kee
oplatky = O-platt-kee

corrections are the most welcome


OK, I wanted to avoid this "phonetization" but you are (basically) right. :wink: I just have no idea how anyone can pronounce anything reading this mess... :roll: Come on, Czech pronunciation is not difficult at all, especially when there is no "ř" in any of these words.


Yeaaa, you're 100% right, but I just did what the girl wanted. :) And by the way - how do you pronounce this "ř"? We don't have it in Polish and to me it sometimes sounds more like "r", and sometimes like "ž"... What's the IPA for that?

And sure, to me "Vlk zmrzl, zhltl hrst zrn" or "Strč prst skrz krk" is perfectly pronunceable, but I understand, why some foreigners may have difficulties... ;)

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Mara
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Postby Mara » 2005-08-23, 22:13

Qaanaaq wrote:Yeaaa, you're 100% right, but I just did what the girl wanted. :) And by the way - how do you pronounce this "ř"? We don't have it in Polish and to me it sometimes sounds more like "r", and sometimes like "ž"... What's the IPA for that?

And sure, to me "Vlk zmrzl, zhltl hrst zrn" or "Strč prst skrz krk" is perfectly pronunceable, but I understand, why some foreigners may have difficulties... ;)


It took me some time but I did find the IPA symbol for "ř" It's . Apparently, this sound is rather unique as there was a "long-leg r" (ɼ) symbol for it until 1989, after which it was replaced by the above one. The sound is, as we use to approximate it for Czech learners, something between a [r] and [ž]. It's difficult to explain. I may try to record it and post it on the web, if you are interested.

And of course, you will have less trouble pronouncing the Czech jazykolamy ("jawbreakers") since you speak Polish, another Western Slavic language. :)

(You may not know it, but these jazykolamy were invented especially to scare unsuspecting foreigners who want to learn Czech. We won't allow them; why should they speak our language and pollute its beautiful sound with their sloppy foreign pronunciation? :twisted: )
I am always sorry when any language is lost, because languages are the pedigree of nations.

-- Samuel Johnson, in: The Journal of a Tour to the Hebrides by James Boswell (1785)

daisy
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Postby daisy » 2005-08-24, 20:36

Hi Mara and Qaanaaq,

Thank you both very much for your help. I'm sorry I haven't responded before this--I was having trouble logging in...

I appreciate the phonetic spellings, Qaanaaq--they were exactly what I needed.

Mara, you are so right about St. Nicholas. I mistakenly lumped that feast day in my head with Christmas. Just FYI: St. Nicholas' feast day, not birthday, is Dec. 6. (And oplatky are wafers, never waffles, which are eaten at breakfast only, never in church!!)

However, I'm a little confused. I wrote Jaslickare, who are young boys who go around (or used to, anyway)Czech towns carrying Nativities and singing. You changed it to jeslicky. Any reason? If not, then Qaanaaq, if I could trouble you for the phonetic pronounciation on that one, I'd be grateful.

Also, oplatky--is it not oplatki in Czech?

Thanks again so much!

(Qaanaaq, if I read your languages correctly, I see that you speak Swedish. I have a Swedish posting, too, that I frankly, have not gotten a satisfactory answer to, if you'd like to visit the Swedish forum and see what you can do. I don't mean to impose, but you seem to have a good grasp of many languages.)

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Qaanaaq
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Postby Qaanaaq » 2005-08-25, 9:34

OK, I've answered your message on Swedish forum.

I don't speak Czech, only know some because it's so similiar to my native language. You have to ask a better Czech expert for a consultation. :) Thus I'm probably wrong, but I think it's "Jasličkaře" and, having in memory that "ř" is a sound between "r" and "ž", it's pronounced "YASS-leetch-ka-řeh". Am I right?

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Mara
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Postby Mara » 2005-08-25, 21:17

daisy wrote:Just FYI: St. Nicholas' feast day, not birthday, is Dec. 6.

That's right; however, in the Czech Republic, the holiday (for kids) is actually celebrated on the eve of his birthday, thus in the evening of December 5.

(And oplatky are wafers, never waffles, which are eaten at breakfast only, never in church!!)

The thing is, "oplatky" can be both in Czech. For example, famous Karlovarské oplatky are thin, round waffles. You can see them at http://www.radio.cz/pictures/jidlo/karl ... latky1.jpg

However, I'm a little confused. I wrote Jaslickare, who are young boys who go around (or used to, anyway)Czech towns carrying Nativities and singing. You changed it to jeslicky. Any reason?

Frankly, I've never heard the word "jaslickare" or "jesličkáři", which is grammatically correct. I changed it to "jesličky" because that means "nativity".

Also, oplatky--is it not oplatki in Czech?

It is "oplatky" because in Czech, if there is an [i] sound (or "ee", phonetically) after "k", there is written a "y" in all Czech words by origin; "i" appears only in foreign words (although these two letters are pronounced the same way).

Does this help? :)
I am always sorry when any language is lost, because languages are the pedigree of nations.

-- Samuel Johnson, in: The Journal of a Tour to the Hebrides by James Boswell (1785)

zeisig

Postby zeisig » 2005-08-26, 15:02

Svätý Mikuláš
čert
Štedrý večer
jasličkári
oblátky

All these words are Slovak (some are also Czech).
jasličkári means carollers (koledníci in Czech)
jasličky means crib or crèche

St. Nicolas died on December 6, his birth day is unknown.

It is a Jewish/Christian custom to celebrate feasts from sunset till sunset, so the St. Nicolas' feast day is traditionally celebrated from Dec 5 sunset till Dec 6 sunset.

daisy
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Postby daisy » 2005-08-27, 3:16

Hi zeisig & Mara,

You are both correct about 'St. Nicholas Eve.'

Thank you for correcting the spelling of jasličkári--again, the books I'm reading got it wrong. :cry:

Thanks, Mara, for setting me straight about the waffles. I just didn't want anyone to think that we eat waffles as part of the Catholic Mass!! :lol:

zeisig, are you satisfied with Qaanaaq's phonetic spellings? If you could help me with the phonetic spelling of jasličkári, I would be grateful. (Alternatively--I don't know how difficult it is-- but if a sound file is easier, I would be happy to do my own English phonetic translations!) :D

daisy :D

zeisig

Postby zeisig » 2005-08-29, 7:52

YUH-sleetch-ka:h-ree

where
- ee is short vowel
- u as in "but"
- a: is long as in "car"
- k is not aspirated!
- h is mute (in this transcription)
- r is rolled
- stress is on the 1st syllable

daisy
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Postby daisy » 2005-09-05, 23:29

Thanks again, zeisig! :D

daisy


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